If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

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Taktix®
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If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Taktix® » 31 Jan 2017, 11:19

A new thread for the wall and immigration policy in general.

Random Thought: Do those working class Trump voters know that the jerbs dey took er going to be of the fruit picking and lawn cutting variety?

I predict a backlash once they realize they'll have to trade their tear-soaked blue collars for white tank top and sunscreen...
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Warren » 31 Jan 2017, 11:48

Taktix® wrote:A new thread for the wall and immigration policy in general.

Random Thought: Do those working class Trump voters know that the jerbs dey took er going to be of the fruit picking and lawn cutting variety?

I predict a backlash once they realize they'll have to trade their tear-soaked blue collars for white tank top and sunscreen...
No one's going to start picking produce. Perhaps this will result in a rise in the price of produce, and maybe there will be carping about that. But what I'm afraid of isn't the wall, it's the tariffs. Some top men are saying that Mexico's economy could go into a tailspin. That will lead to social unrest and political upheaval. And THAT will lead to a migration in record numbers, wall or no they'll come steaming across the border. Who says irony is dead?
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by thoreau » 31 Jan 2017, 11:49

Even if the people building The Great Wall of Cheeto are 100% 'Murican, they will be pulled from other construction jobs. This will increase demand for construction labor, and I hear that there are some guys outside the Home Depot who will get your job done without any paperwork.

Sent from a phone so their may be speling errors and autocorrect snafu's.
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Hugh Akston » 31 Jan 2017, 11:57

Moynihan made a good point on last week's 5C: if the tariffs crash Mexico's export economy and undermine the peso (which is already starting to happen), the lure of jobs and a stronger dollar to remit back home will attract more immigrants to the US. And history has proven repeatedly that no wall is a match for a sufficiently strong economic incentive.
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 31 Jan 2017, 12:56

Warren wrote:
Taktix® wrote:A new thread for the wall and immigration policy in general.

Random Thought: Do those working class Trump voters know that the jerbs dey took er going to be of the fruit picking and lawn cutting variety?

I predict a backlash once they realize they'll have to trade their tear-soaked blue collars for white tank top and sunscreen...
No one's going to start picking produce. Perhaps this will result in a rise in the price of produce, and maybe there will be carping about that. But what I'm afraid of isn't the wall, it's the tariffs. Some top men are saying that Mexico's economy could go into a tailspin. That will lead to social unrest and political upheaval. And THAT will lead to a migration in record numbers, wall or no they'll come steaming across the border. Who says irony is dead?
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Mo » 31 Jan 2017, 13:03

Hugh Akston wrote:Moynihan made a good point on last week's 5C: if the tariffs crash Mexico's export economy and undermine the peso (which is already starting to happen), the lure of jobs and a stronger dollar to remit back home will attract more immigrants to the US. And history has proven repeatedly that no wall is a match for a sufficiently strong economic incentive.
Yeah, I've been saying for a couple of weeks that if you want to stop illegal immigration, taking a tire iron to the Mexican economy is the worst way to do it.
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by tr0g » 31 Jan 2017, 13:10

I have opined for years the probably not-very-original thought that the US indirectly enables Mexico to be the corrupt shithole it is. People with motivation and drive go to the US to make money instead of staying home and trying to fix the mess that is Mexico.
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Warren » 31 Jan 2017, 13:26

tr0g wrote:I have opined for years the probably not-very-original thought that the US indirectly enables Mexico to be the corrupt shithole it is. People with motivation and drive go to the US to make money instead of staying home and trying to fix the mess that is Mexico.
I don't know about that. The US has for years been directly enabling Mexico to be the corrupt shithole it is by insisting they support the WOD.
Mo wrote:Yeah, I've been saying for a couple of weeks that if you want to stop illegal immigration, taking a tire iron to the Mexican economy is the worst way to do it.
Hugh Akston wrote:Moynihan made a good point on last week's 5C: if the tariffs crash Mexico's export economy and undermine the peso (which is already starting to happen), the lure of jobs and a stronger dollar to remit back home will attract more immigrants to the US.
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Mo » 31 Jan 2017, 13:26

tr0g wrote:I have opined for years the probably not-very-original thought that the US indirectly enables Mexico to be the corrupt shithole it is. People with motivation and drive go to the US to make money instead of staying home and trying to fix the mess that is Mexico.
Mexico has been getting better in recent year though. Unfortunately ...
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Hugh Akston » 31 Jan 2017, 13:30

Mo wrote:
tr0g wrote:I have opined for years the probably not-very-original thought that the US indirectly enables Mexico to be the corrupt shithole it is. People with motivation and drive go to the US to make money instead of staying home and trying to fix the mess that is Mexico.
Mexico has been getting better in recent year though. Unfortunately ...
Yep, and the number of illegal immigrants in the country has held steady or even dropped a little. Quite a coincidence that.
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Mo » 31 Jan 2017, 13:54

The other funny thing is the frequent comments by the anti-immigrant folk about how "Mexico enforces their border, so why can't we?" Misses the fact that they partly do it for our benefit. Hondurans aren't clamoring to head to Mexico any more than Delta passengers are clamoring to head to Detroit. Think the next Mexican president is going to waste resources keeping out Guatemalans or Hondurans? It's more likely that they start a coyote referral policy.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 31 Jan 2017, 20:54

Hugh Akston wrote:
Mo wrote:
tr0g wrote:I have opined for years the probably not-very-original thought that the US indirectly enables Mexico to be the corrupt shithole it is. People with motivation and drive go to the US to make money instead of staying home and trying to fix the mess that is Mexico.
Mexico has been getting better in recent year though. Unfortunately ...
Yep, and the number of illegal immigrants in the country has held steady or even dropped a little. Quite a coincidence that.
I hear it's down to to the point where only the murders and rapists are coming.

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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Aresen » 31 Jan 2017, 21:30

D.A. Ridgely wrote:
Hugh Akston wrote:
Mo wrote:
tr0g wrote:I have opined for years the probably not-very-original thought that the US indirectly enables Mexico to be the corrupt shithole it is. People with motivation and drive go to the US to make money instead of staying home and trying to fix the mess that is Mexico.
Mexico has been getting better in recent year though. Unfortunately ...
Yep, and the number of illegal immigrants in the country has held steady or even dropped a little. Quite a coincidence that.
I hear it's down to to the point where only the murders and rapists are coming.
Taking jobs jerbs from fine white 'Murikan murderers and rapists.
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Taktix® » 13 Feb 2017, 11:16

Ok, Trumpies, here you go: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/ ... aw-workers

There's 65 tomato picker jobs created! Wait, what? You thought they'd be cushy office jobs? Or at least something in a nice, climate-controlled factory? Yeah, sorry. Just think of it as a fitness program, since you won't be able to afford that gym membership you never use on this salary. At least the red trucker hat should keep the sun out of your eyes!
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by lunchstealer » 13 Feb 2017, 16:52

That's from 2011 when 'Bama was trying to out-Arpaio Arpaio by cribbing off SB-1070 and adding their own nutso provisions, like making it a felony to allow an undocumented immigrant to ride in your car with you.
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Taktix® » 14 Feb 2017, 09:48

Taktix® wrote:Ok, Trumpies, here you go: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/ ... aw-workers

There's 65 tomato picker jobs created! Wait, what? You thought they'd be cushy office jobs? Or at least something in a nice, climate-controlled factory? Yeah, sorry. Just think of it as a fitness program, since you won't be able to afford that gym membership you never use on this salary. At least the red trucker hat should keep the sun out of your eyes!
lunchstealer wrote:That's from 2011 when 'Bama was trying to out-Arpaio Arpaio by cribbing off SB-1070 and adding their own nutso provisions, like making it a felony to allow an undocumented immigrant to ride in your car with you.
Oh fuck. Sorry, someone shared it with a contemporary-sounding headline and I just didn't look too far into it.

Never mind then...
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by lunchstealer » 14 Feb 2017, 12:56

You weren't the only one who was spreading that one, and I'm pretty sure it's only not happening right now because it's not Alabama harvesting season. When it is, there will be salty ham tears from the Trump-voting farmers. Except the lucky ones who actually manage to harvest, who'll face much higher prices from constricted supply.
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Aresen » 14 Feb 2017, 13:06

lunchstealer wrote:You weren't the only one who was spreading that one, and I'm pretty sure it's only not happening right now because it's not Alabama harvesting season. When it is, there will be salty ham tears from the Trump-voting farmers. Except the lucky ones who actually manage to harvest, who'll face much higher prices from constricted supply.
Sometimes, when you turn around a long-standing policy, it no longer bites you in the ass but bites you in the balls.*

*Note: Some people like it that way, NTTAWWT.
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Kolohe » 14 Feb 2017, 14:01

lunchstealer wrote:You weren't the only one who was spreading that one, and I'm pretty sure it's only not happening right now because it's not Alabama harvesting season. When it is, there will be salty ham tears from the Trump-voting farmers. Except the lucky ones who actually manage to harvest, who'll face much higher prices from constricted supply.
There was similar story about Californian Trump loving farmers from this year, but it wasn't clear if the anecdata had an actual inflection point of Jan 20 2017.
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by fyodor » 14 Feb 2017, 14:20

Anyone have any ideas on whether the recent and current raids are just Obama holdovers as ICE says versus reflective of the wishes of the new regime?
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Aresen » 14 Feb 2017, 14:28

fyodor wrote:Anyone have any ideas on whether the recent and current raids are just Obama holdovers as ICE says versus reflective of the wishes of the new regime?
Does it matter? It is a classic case of tu quoque.
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by fyodor » 14 Feb 2017, 14:54

Aresen wrote:
fyodor wrote:Anyone have any ideas on whether the recent and current raids are just Obama holdovers as ICE says versus reflective of the wishes of the new regime?
Does it matter? It is a classic case of tu quoque.
Well... As far as each side blaming each other sure. But I'm not on either side. That doesn't mean I shouldn't get to know who's to rightly blame!
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by nicole » 14 Feb 2017, 14:56

fyodor wrote:
Aresen wrote:
fyodor wrote:Anyone have any ideas on whether the recent and current raids are just Obama holdovers as ICE says versus reflective of the wishes of the new regime?
Does it matter? It is a classic case of tu quoque.
Well... As far as each side blaming each other sure. But I'm not on either side. That doesn't mean I shouldn't get to know who's to rightly blame!
Even if they are holdovers, Trump can direct ICE not to continue.
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Taktix® » 14 Feb 2017, 15:15

nicole wrote:
fyodor wrote:
Aresen wrote:
fyodor wrote:Anyone have any ideas on whether the recent and current raids are just Obama holdovers as ICE says versus reflective of the wishes of the new regime?
Does it matter? It is a classic case of tu quoque.
Well... As far as each side blaming each other sure. But I'm not on either side. That doesn't mean I shouldn't get to know who's to rightly blame!
Even if they are holdovers, Trump can direct ICE not to continue.
Or he could direct ICE to cut the corners that might have been delaying these raids...
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by fyodor » 14 Feb 2017, 15:17

nicole wrote:
fyodor wrote:
Aresen wrote:
fyodor wrote:Anyone have any ideas on whether the recent and current raids are just Obama holdovers as ICE says versus reflective of the wishes of the new regime?
Does it matter? It is a classic case of tu quoque.
Well... As far as each side blaming each other sure. But I'm not on either side. That doesn't mean I shouldn't get to know who's to rightly blame!
Even if they are holdovers, Trump can direct ICE not to continue.
Sure. But I'm curious as to whether the raids were typical of stuff that was going on previously (i.e. "routine"), or whether it already reflects something harsher. If it's the former, that hardly excuses Trump, just means it doesn't reflect anything unique to him.
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