The Abortion Thread

[nicole]

Haha I just saw some mfs on twitter complaining that “yes” campaigners should be focused instead on “sepsis awareness.”

Hahaha

[Jennifer]

Haha I just saw some mfs on twitter complaining that “yes” campaigners should be focused instead on “sepsis awareness.”

Hahaha

How dare you not focus on the same things I focus on!

[Jennifer]

Turns out even Catholic priests support abortion -- at least if the girl they raped gets pregnant.

Another horrifying takeaway from the ever-growing church sex abuse scandal out of Pennsylvania:

In another case, a priest raped a girl, got her pregnant, and arranged an abortion. The bishop expressed his feelings in a letter:”This is a very difficult time in your life, and I realize how upset you are. I too share your grief.”But the letter was not for the girl.

It was addressed to the rapist.

[JD]

Wow. Every time I think cartoonish villains are, well, cartoonish, life presents some counter-evidence...

[Mo]

The bishop in question would not allow himself to be seated near Chris Matthews at a commencement ceremony because Matthews is a pro-choice Catholic.

[dhex]

and they kept all the fucking evidence.

all of it.

someone actually did the rico here.

[Ellie]

The bishop in question would not allow himself to be seated near Chris Matthews at a commencement ceremony because Matthews is a pro-choice Catholic.

I honestly misinterpreted Chris Matthews as "Chris Hansen" and thought, yeah, I don't think anyone involved in this story wants to sit down with Chris Hansen.

Heh. Oooooops.

[Mo]

The bishop in question would not allow himself to be seated near Chris Matthews at a commencement ceremony because Matthews is a pro-choice Catholic.

I honestly misinterpreted Chris Matthews as "Chris Hansen" and thought, yeah, I don't think anyone involved in this story wants to sit down with Chris Hansen.

Heh. Oooooops.

What else is he going to do with those wine coolers?

[Jennifer]

The bishop in question would not allow himself to be seated near Chris Matthews at a commencement ceremony because Matthews is a pro-choice Catholic.

To be fair, it doesn't sound like the bishop in question is pro-choice, either. From what little I've read about the matter, the girl's own wishes were not entered into consideration, only the convenience of her priest-rapist and the criminal organization that worked so diligently to cover his actions.

[Mo]

There was a thoughtful article in NR comparing the Catholic Church to what happened in Rotherham (which is being generous to the RCC). This was marred by comments blaming it on the gheys.

[Jennifer]

More evidence that those seeking to outlaw abortion are less opposed to abortion than they are to bodily autonomy: though SCOTUS nominee Judge Kavanaugh is opposed to letting women seek out abortions (especially problematic since he apparently thinks contraceptives are actually "abortion drugs"), he has ruled in the past that certain disabled people may not refuse medical procedures deemed necessary by the state, including abortion:

https://rewire.news/article/2018/08/28/ ... ve-rights/

Some of these documents are extremely troubling, as noted by Hannah Leibson and Rebecca Cokley at TalkPoverty when they brought a 2007 decision about bodily autonomy to the attention of the general public. In this opinion, Kavanaugh determined that disabled people who “lack mental capacity” do not have the right to weigh in on medical decisions. Because the case involved two women who were forced to have abortions, it is ringing alarm bells, and rightly so, for reproductive rights and justice advocates—but the decision goes beyond abortion alone. Rather, it suggests Kavanaugh might not rule favorably on cases surrounding bodily autonomy, from coerced sterilization to denial of transition care.

The case, Doe ex rel. Tarlow v. D.C., concerned three Jane Does with intellectual disabilities who said they were subjected to forcible surgical procedures in the 1970s through 1990s while they were under the institutional care of D.C.’s then-Mental Retardation and Developmental Disability Administration (now known as the Developmental Disabilities Administration). They claimed they weren’t consulted in the decision-making process as stakeholders in choices about their own bodies, saying their due process rights were violated. They brought the case to court, challenging the district’s policy regarding obtaining consent for medical conditions. The lower court found a constitutional violation, which Kavanaugh overturned on appeal.

[nicole]

Please don’t fall for the people who are claiming he thinks contraceptives are abortion-inducing drugs just because he is aware of the dispute in Hobby Lobby v. Burwell.

Also there are deceptively edited video clips around: https://t.co/UqbRGSx0jW?amp=1

[lunchstealer]

I have always thought that most opposition to abortion was about female morality rather than life of the fetus. Women are seen as trying to get out of the consequences of their sin. Secondarily it’s about the belief that the function of women is to bear children’s no nothing should interfere with that. They start from a reaction against female rejection of pregnancy and work backward to the more socially acceptable ‘life of the unborn’ and then adopt that as their public motivation/justification. The ones who genuinely start from life are a smaller minority than they’d like to think.

[Warren]

I have always thought that most opposition to abortion was about female morality rather than life of the fetus. Women are seen as trying to get out of the consequences of their sin. Secondarily it’s about the belief that the function of women is to bear children’s no nothing should interfere with that. They start from a reaction against female rejection of pregnancy and work backward to the more socially acceptable ‘life of the unborn’ and then adopt that as their public motivation/justification. The ones who genuinely start from life are a smaller minority than they’d like to think.

This applies to none of the dozens of Right to Life supporters I've taken the time to talk to. It's all about the life of the baby.

[lunchstealer]

I have always thought that most opposition to abortion was about female morality rather than life of the fetus. Women are seen as trying to get out of the consequences of their sin. Secondarily it’s about the belief that the function of women is to bear children’s no nothing should interfere with that. They start from a reaction against female rejection of pregnancy and work backward to the more socially acceptable ‘life of the unborn’ and then adopt that as their public motivation/justification. The ones who genuinely start from life are a smaller minority than they’d like to think.

This applies to none of the dozens of Right to Life supporters I've taken the time to talk to. It's all about the life of the baby.

That’s their choice of rhetoric, certainly. I just don’t buy that it’s their prime motive. For some it really is, but the overlap with abstinence-only undermines their credibility as a group.

[Mo]

Same with opposition to birth control or, worse yet, calling some birth control abortifacients for not allowing fertilized eggs to implant. The latter means that using breast feeding or NFP as birth control is even worse than medical birth control, as those cause way more embryos to not implant.

[Warren]

I have always thought that most opposition to abortion was about female morality rather than life of the fetus. Women are seen as trying to get out of the consequences of their sin. Secondarily it’s about the belief that the function of women is to bear children’s no nothing should interfere with that. They start from a reaction against female rejection of pregnancy and work backward to the more socially acceptable ‘life of the unborn’ and then adopt that as their public motivation/justification. The ones who genuinely start from life are a smaller minority than they’d like to think.

This applies to none of the dozens of Right to Life supporters I've taken the time to talk to. It's all about the life of the baby.

That’s their choice of rhetoric, certainly. I just don’t buy that it’s their prime motive. For some it really is, but the overlap with abstinence-only undermines their credibility as a group.

What exactly is the overlap? How did you measure it?

[lunchstealer]

Living in South Carolina and Texas for the vast bulk of my conscious years gave me a first hand observation of the overlap.

I'd say that if less than 95% of abstinence-only types self-identify as pro-life I will eat your shorts. I will not eat your shorts but nonetheless look shellshocked if it's less than 99.44%

The number of pro-lifers who are okay with real sex ed is probably much higher but I doubt it is more than 50%.

The thing is that you'd never be able to determine by direct questioning who had what primary motivation because the talking points are so refined. Anybody in the prolife movement knows that you focus on 'life' rather than being 'anti-abortion' and that you treat the women as victims, too. Unless the mask slips, it's all compassion. I've seen the mask slip from time to time.

[Warren]

Living in South Carolina and Texas for the vast bulk of my conscious years gave me a first hand observation of the overlap.

I'd say that if less than 95% of self-identify as pro-life I will eat your shorts. I will not eat your shorts but nonetheless look shellshocked if it's less than 99.44%

The number of pro-lifers who are okay with real sex ed is probably much higher but I doubt it is more than 50%.

The thing is that you'd never be able to determine by direct questioning who had what primary motivation because the talking points are so refined. Anybody in the prolife movement knows that you focus on 'life' rather than being 'anti-abortion' and that you treat the women as victims, too. Unless the mask slips, it's all compassion. I've seen the mask slip from time to time.

From my first hand observations across 7 states, I'd say that "abstinence-only types" comprise less than 20% of Right to Lifers.

[lunchstealer]

OK so quick check of polling says that 47% of Americans identify as pro-life, while 20% oppose sex ed courses which include contraceptive and STD prevention information. So raw math says that my 50% guess is off. However, unless more than half of abstinence-only types are pro-choice, they make up well over 20% of the pro-life movement, and since I can't believe that there's much overlap between pro-choice and abstinence-only, I'm going to guess that around 40%-42% of pro-life people are abstinence-only or no-sex-ed.

[Warren]

I can't believe that there's much overlap between pro-choice and abstinence-only

There you go

[Jennifer]

Plus, let's not forget the vast numbers of "pro-lifers" who actually believe (and unashamedly admit they believe) shit like this:

[Warren]

How many exactly? Do you have names and addresses?

[JasonL]

Also that’s about babies to them. They are like u killing babies and seem not to care what do you care about must be loins.

It’s all jacked up extreme if you think it’s dead babies.

[Jennifer]

Yeah, the ones who supported the so-called "Human Life Amendment" which would outlaw abortion even if necessary to save the mother's life were motivated solely by their love of the babeez. And also take great offense at any suggestion "So your human life amendment won't allow a pregnant woman to save her own life--do you not believe pregnant women are human?" (I'm also still waiting for a "ban abortion" person to explain just how such a ban is to be implemented without majorly violating the human rights of all women of childbearing age. If you like what the War on Drugs did to American civil liberties, you'll love what the War on Baby-Killing Sluts has in store for us!)