Orange is the new President

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thoreau
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by thoreau »

dead_elvis wrote: 29 Oct 2020, 13:12 I think people will be discovering boxes of ballots in the swamps of Florida for a year.
Great premise for a Burn Notice revival. "Sam, the people who burned me aren't going to stop with a few spies in Miami. They want the White House!"

"Mike, brother, you gotta calm down here. You're talking about interfering in a national election!"

"No, Sam, I'm talking about saving a national election." *Cut to commercial*
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Warren »

dead_elvis wrote: 29 Oct 2020, 13:12 I think people will be discovering boxes of ballots in the swamps of Florida for a year.
A year if we're lucky. I'm thinking this thing is going to be like the Kennedy assassination. Thirty years from now they'll make a big budget hologram about the "magic ballots".
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JD
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Re: Orange is the new President

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I sort of feel like a sucker about aspiring to be intellectually rigorous when I could just go on twitter and say capitalism causes space herpes and no one will challenge me on it. - Hugh Akston
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Highway
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Highway »

I put this in the "intentionally spreading outright lies because he believes it is politically advantageous for him." And honestly, I'm well past the point where I think that Trump is actually ignorant of the truth of anything he says, especially if he says it more than once. If he actually wanted to say the truth, he has the greatest staff possible to help him actually say things that are true. He does not want to. Everything he ever says is something that he believes will make things better for him.
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by lunchstealer »

Highway wrote: 29 Oct 2020, 14:25
I put this in the "intentionally spreading outright lies because he believes it is politically advantageous for him." And honestly, I'm well past the point where I think that Trump is actually ignorant of the truth of anything he says, especially if he says it more than once. If he actually wanted to say the truth, he has the greatest staff possible to help him actually say things that are true. He does not want to. Everything he ever says is something that he believes will make things better for him.
Yup. Truth and lies are beside the point. He says things that he feels in the moment would be best (for him) if they were true, and what he wants people to think and how he wants the universe to be. Perception and desired effect are what's important, and niggling about facts is just nerd bullshit.

He's not lying to you, he's saying the things that will get you to do/feel/cheer the way he wants.
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Re: Orange is the new President

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If you like the things you want, you can keep the things you want.
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Jennifer »

lunchstealer wrote: 29 Oct 2020, 18:21
Highway wrote: 29 Oct 2020, 14:25
I put this in the "intentionally spreading outright lies because he believes it is politically advantageous for him." And honestly, I'm well past the point where I think that Trump is actually ignorant of the truth of anything he says, especially if he says it more than once. If he actually wanted to say the truth, he has the greatest staff possible to help him actually say things that are true. He does not want to. Everything he ever says is something that he believes will make things better for him.
Yup. Truth and lies are beside the point. He says things that he feels in the moment would be best (for him) if they were true, and what he wants people to think and how he wants the universe to be. Perception and desired effect are what's important, and niggling about facts is just nerd bullshit.

He's not lying to you, he's saying the things that will get you to do/feel/cheer the way he wants.
I've mentioned this anecdote before, but: I pretty much gave up any hope that Trump and Trumpers were making good-faith reality-based arguments back when Trump gave a rally in Arizona (when "will he or won't he pardon Arpaio" was the current question). I watched the rally live, and at one point in the speech he said that CNN and other left-wing media sites had just cut the feed because they didn't want America to hear the truth of what he was saying ... needless to say this was a COMPLETE bullshit claim, which I know because I was watching the rally on CNN. When someone goes so far as to deny broken-glass proofs, they have willingly placed themselves beyond the bounds of reason.
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JD
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by JD »

lunchstealer wrote: 29 Oct 2020, 18:21Truth and lies are beside the point.
"Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing,
there is a field. I’ll meet you there.

When the soul lies down in that grass,
the world is too full to talk about.
Ideas, language, even the phrase ‘each other’
doesn’t make any sense."
- Rumi

What we didn't realize, though, is that he was talking about a field of candidates...
I sort of feel like a sucker about aspiring to be intellectually rigorous when I could just go on twitter and say capitalism causes space herpes and no one will challenge me on it. - Hugh Akston
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Aresen »

JD wrote: 30 Oct 2020, 11:26
lunchstealer wrote: 29 Oct 2020, 18:21Truth and lies are beside the point.
"Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing,
there is a field. I’ll meet you there.

When the soul lies down in that grass,
the world is too full to talk about.
Ideas, language, even the phrase ‘each other’
doesn’t make any sense."
- Rumi

What we didn't realize, though, is that he was talking about a field of candidates...
Can we plant them?
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex
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Ellie
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Ellie »

So I saw this today
@dreadpiratejene
Even if he loses in a landslide, even if the election results are clear, even if he transfers power peacefully, we are still going to have to look at his face until he dies. We aren't going to wake up magically tomorrow and have him, or his violent supporters gone.
and it made me realize one depressing likelihood: all the people who felt like they were getting stifled by political correctness and liked Trump because he said the quiet parts out loud are going to be insufferable and troublesome if we as a society attempt any return to prior norms. They were butthurt over decades of gradually reducing open racism; imagine how attacked they're going to feel being told to stuff it back in the bottle all at once.
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Dangerman
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Dangerman »

I don't know what prior norms we had, tbh. I think both of the two lumpy 'sides' has been searching for a coherent ideology for at least ten years. I think the coalitions are falling apart and we don't have an obvious balance to return to unfortunately. And I say this as someone who is becoming increasingly in favor of institutions and weak traditions.
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Hugh Akston »

Dangerman wrote: 03 Nov 2020, 10:37 I don't know what prior norms we had, tbh. I think both of the two lumpy 'sides' has been searching for a coherent ideology for at least ten years. I think the coalitions are falling apart and we don't have an obvious balance to return to unfortunately. And I say this as someone who is becoming increasingly in favor of institutions and weak traditions.
One of 'em is pro-abortion, the other is anti-abortion.
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Orange is the new President

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Ellie wrote: 03 Nov 2020, 09:44and it made me realize one depressing likelihood: all the people who felt like they were getting stifled by political correctness and liked Trump because he said the quiet parts out loud are going to be insufferable and troublesome if we as a society attempt any return to prior norms. They were butthurt over decades of gradually reducing open racism; imagine how attacked they're going to feel being told to stuff it back in the bottle all at once.
I'm not sure it's all that binary. Pushing has gone in both directions, even during the Trump administration.

I think a lot of people are going to retroactively have never supported Trump; watch for a lot of deleted social media history over the next year. Others will double down and continue to be blatantly racist, etc. shitbags.
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Ellie
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Re: Orange is the new President

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Dangerman wrote: 03 Nov 2020, 10:37 I don't know what prior norms we had, tbh. I think both of the two lumpy 'sides' has been searching for a coherent ideology for at least ten years. I think the coalitions are falling apart and we don't have an obvious balance to return to unfortunately. And I say this as someone who is becoming increasingly in favor of institutions and weak traditions.
Yeah, I'm not really thinking of this group as comprising one whole "side" but as a small subsection of Trump supporters. Even if you or I can't really describe what prior norms we've lost, I think there are people (I'm thinking of my mother-in-law specifically) who have this perception of political correctness gone amok that was finally starting to be rolled back. The kind of people who claim Christianity is being persecuted in this country just because there's the tiniest possible acknowledgment that other religions exist. The white women who write weird fanfic on Facebook imagining a near-future America where Bibles are banned and dangerous vaccines are mandatory. That sort of nonsense.

Having the progress rubber-band-snap the other way is going to make them feel even more like victims than before. and I don't think it even needs to be an actual change of norms, just people talking about returning to civility or "finally we can get the country back on track" will be like code for "go back underground, you're in danger once more" to these ass blisters.
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Re: Orange is the new President

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Ellie wrote: 03 Nov 2020, 10:59 Having the progress rubber-band-snap the other way is going to make them feel even more like victims than before. and I don't think it even needs to be an actual change of norms, just people talking about returning to civility or "finally we can get the country back on track" will be like code for "go back underground, you're in danger once more" to these ass blisters.
Considering that the people you're talking about have spent the past 4 years, where they held the Presidency and the Senate (and the House for 2 years), installed hundreds of federal judges after stalling on those same hundreds of judges under Obama, and basically could get any policy they wanted enacted, still acting like they're some persecuted shadow population in exile, where they're going to be put to death by pogroms of Blacks (who number less than 1/2 the people who still wholeheartedly support Trump) and ultra-woke college kids, complaining vociferously that they're being canceled on the very platforms they are complaining on, they're always going to feel like they're 'in danger'. Because that's all they have: fear.

I don't think most of them are violent. Just belligerent. Reacting to their fear by puffing up, threatening, like the pretenders they are.
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

Trump will enjoy retirement. Someone will pitch some new reality shows for him, e.g., "Celebrity Cabinet Secretary," "The Masked Patriot," "Are You Smarter Than A Libtard?" etc. He'll have a news talk show on OAN where guests come and listen to him for an hour, nodding respectfully.

He gets to keep the Secret Service entourage, he'll get huge (excuse me, yuge) speaking fees, maybe even enough to retire his debts, he'll lease his own 747 painted like a U.S. flag and call it Trump One and, best of all, he can start dating again.

Twitter will be hardest hit. It's traffic will drop 50% as people like me who followed Trump for the lulz drop him and the foreign propaganda-bots move on to greener pastures. Facebook will fill up again with cat pictures. Month by month, more and more of his faithful followers will die from "an unexpectedly bad case of the flu, and we can all move on to rant about the clear and present danger of a government controlled by Democrats.
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Jennifer
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Jennifer »

Ellie wrote: 03 Nov 2020, 09:44 So I saw this today
@dreadpiratejene
Even if he loses in a landslide, even if the election results are clear, even if he transfers power peacefully, we are still going to have to look at his face until he dies. We aren't going to wake up magically tomorrow and have him, or his violent supporters gone.
and it made me realize one depressing likelihood: all the people who felt like they were getting stifled by political correctness and liked Trump because he said the quiet parts out loud are going to be insufferable and troublesome if we as a society attempt any return to prior norms. They were butthurt over decades of gradually reducing open racism; imagine how attacked they're going to feel being told to stuff it back in the bottle all at once.
Building on that: as bad as Trump has been, it would've been far worse if he'd had ANY sort of competence, or even the level of emotional self-control you'd expect from ... I won't say "a full-fledged adult," but at LEAST "a child who's outgrown their 'tantrum over even the mildest of disappointments' phase." And the anger and dysfunctionality that led to Trump (who is not the cause of what ails the GOP, merely a symptom of it) is not going to go away if and when he does. Next time, I fear, the Trumpsters might elect someone who is actually good at what he does.

OTOH, looking for reasons for optimism: I think a LOT of people who sat out the 2016 election but made sure to vote this time now have a lifetime inoculation against the idea "No need to vote, because it doesn't actually matter who sits in the White House." The last four years have shown: it DOES matter. It can matter a LOT.
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Re: Orange is the new President

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Jennifer wrote: 03 Nov 2020, 14:20
Ellie wrote: 03 Nov 2020, 09:44 So I saw this today
@dreadpiratejene
Even if he loses in a landslide, even if the election results are clear, even if he transfers power peacefully, we are still going to have to look at his face until he dies. We aren't going to wake up magically tomorrow and have him, or his violent supporters gone.
and it made me realize one depressing likelihood: all the people who felt like they were getting stifled by political correctness and liked Trump because he said the quiet parts out loud are going to be insufferable and troublesome if we as a society attempt any return to prior norms. They were butthurt over decades of gradually reducing open racism; imagine how attacked they're going to feel being told to stuff it back in the bottle all at once.
Building on that: as bad as Trump has been, it would've been far worse if he'd had ANY sort of competence, or even the level of emotional self-control you'd expect from ... I won't say "a full-fledged adult," but at LEAST "a child who's outgrown their 'tantrum over even the mildest of disappointments' phase." And the anger and dysfunctionality that led to Trump (who is not the cause of what ails the GOP, merely a symptom of it) is not going to go away if and when he does. Next time, I fear, the Trumpsters might elect someone who is actually good at what he does.

OTOH, looking for reasons for optimism: I think a LOT of people who sat out the 2016 election but made sure to vote this time now have a lifetime inoculation against the idea "No need to vote, because it doesn't actually matter who sits in the White House." The last four years have shown: it DOES matter. It can matter a LOT.
I think the 'Poor Me' crybabyism is a large part of what Trump's base is all about. I'm not sure any of the mainstream GOP could pull it off. Even Huckabee, who plays the 'white evangelicals are victims' card more than most, couldn't do it.
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by lunchstealer »

Trumpism is a huge tantrum against being told to be nice and not use bad words, eat your vegetables, and behave like a civilized person. It's going to carry on for a while with people pandering to conspiracy nutbags like the Qanons that are almost certainly going to be winning some House seats.
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Re: Orange is the new President

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If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex
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Aresen
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Re: Orange is the new President

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One thing about the Trump Presidency: There are going to be a lot of period dramas about it in whatever media are current 40+ years from now.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Warren »

Aresen wrote: 06 Nov 2020, 21:22 One thing about the Trump Presidency: There are going to be a lot of period dramas about it in whatever media are current 40+ years from now.
Like the way there are all those Ford Administration period dramas now?
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Aresen
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Re: Orange is the new President

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Warren wrote: 07 Nov 2020, 10:26
Aresen wrote: 06 Nov 2020, 21:22 One thing about the Trump Presidency: There are going to be a lot of period dramas about it in whatever media are current 40+ years from now.
Like the way there are all those Ford Administration period dramas now?
I liked Ford, but Ford was boring. The Trump presidency is anything but boring.
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by thoreau »

Yeah, but most of those period dramas will be written by untalented hacks with zero originality.

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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Warren »

Aresen wrote: 07 Nov 2020, 10:34
Warren wrote: 07 Nov 2020, 10:26
Aresen wrote: 06 Nov 2020, 21:22 One thing about the Trump Presidency: There are going to be a lot of period dramas about it in whatever media are current 40+ years from now.
Like the way there are all those Ford Administration period dramas now?
I liked Ford, but Ford was boring. The Trump presidency is anything but boring.
Every day the Trump tweeted something stupid and half the country threw a hissy fit over it. Lather, rinse, repeat, for four fucking years.
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