Orange is the new President

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Aresen
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Aresen »

Hugh Akston wrote: 02 Oct 2020, 18:53
Aresen wrote: 02 Oct 2020, 18:41
Jennifer wrote: 02 Oct 2020, 18:24 This goes way beyond Chekhov's gun. This is Chekhov''s unlicensed underground gun show, held in an abandoned building which just caught on fire, and the ammunition's starting to go off.
????

I am baffled why a literary maxim applies in this situation.
Trump basically set this up (left the gun on the mantle) by bungling the federal response to covid, and by personally ignoring/denouncing medical expertise regarding personal protection. Now it's the third act and the gun has been fired. Unfortunately it probably won't prove to be fatal because Trump is the mother lovin' pigeon of Mary-Sues.
I wondered if that might be the meaning, but I think Nemesis or, perhaps the Blood of Nessus, might be a better metaphor.
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Re: Orange is the new President

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Highway
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Re: Orange is the new President

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After watching events today, I'm firmly out of the 'skeptic' and cynic frame of mind on this. Every narrative about this runs counter to every narrative that Trump's supporters have been convincing themselves of for the last 5 years.
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Number 6
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Re: Orange is the new President

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Highway wrote: 02 Oct 2020, 19:49 After watching events today, I'm firmly out of the 'skeptic' and cynic frame of mind on this. Every narrative about this runs counter to every narrative that Trump's supporters have been convincing themselves of for the last 5 years.
Except the one where covid is no more serious than the flu. Which is what he'll say when he recovers, regardless of whether he really has it.
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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

Yes, I'm convinced at this point that this isn't a con, though I also am confident that if Trump does have a speedy recovery he will try to use that fact to his electoral advantage.
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Re: Orange is the new President

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Jennifer wrote: 02 Oct 2020, 15:05My outta-the-ass guess is that if Pence were to also catch it, his chances of survival would be higher than Trump's for all these reasons ... but I'm still curious: what would happen if they both got it AND both died? Given the timing, if they both had it today it's not implausible that they'd both die only a day or two before election day. There's never been anything remotely like that in American history before; I wonder what would happen then, in regard to the election and whoever the GOP would run?
Nancy Pelosi moves to the White House. Team Red won't be able to pick a new nominee in a day or two, so there's no Red candidate for the election.

The crazy Red hordes cry coup and probably do some damage, but they have no leadership figure without Trump. (They don't give a shit about Pence.)
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Eric the .5b »

thoreau wrote: 02 Oct 2020, 18:00 And Diamond Joe tested negative. Takes more than a little RNA to sideline the campaign motorcycle.
Incubation is a thing. Hopefully, he's still testing negative days from now.
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Re: Orange is the new President

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Aresen wrote: 02 Oct 2020, 19:03I wondered if that might be the meaning, but I think Nemesis or, perhaps the Blood of Nessus, might be a better metaphor.
I always thought Trump was more "Hammerheads" than "Nemesis", at least if we're keeping it to Oil and Gold. ;)

(Trump's never been carefully, correctly anything, after all.)
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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

Eric the .5b wrote: 02 Oct 2020, 20:28
Jennifer wrote: 02 Oct 2020, 15:05My outta-the-ass guess is that if Pence were to also catch it, his chances of survival would be higher than Trump's for all these reasons ... but I'm still curious: what would happen if they both got it AND both died? Given the timing, if they both had it today it's not implausible that they'd both die only a day or two before election day. There's never been anything remotely like that in American history before; I wonder what would happen then, in regard to the election and whoever the GOP would run?
Nancy Pelosi moves to the White House. Team Red won't be able to pick a new nominee in a day or two, so there's no Red candidate for the election.

The crazy Red hordes cry coup and probably do some damage, but they have no leadership figure without Trump. (They don't give a shit about Pence.)
If you mean before November 3, the party leadership would pick a replacement candidate and could do so in a day or two if needed. We're not sure what would happen to the votes already cast for Trump. After the popular vote election but before the Electoral College, assuming Trump won things get even more iffy. Most states bind their electors at least on the first vote. OTOH, being room temperature disqualifies someone from being president, so my guess is that there would be a mad scramble at the state level with the national party trying to influence what the states and/or electors do on the second ballot.
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Aresen
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Re: Orange is the new President

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Eric the .5b wrote: 02 Oct 2020, 20:37
Aresen wrote: 02 Oct 2020, 19:03I wondered if that might be the meaning, but I think Nemesis or, perhaps the Blood of Nessus, might be a better metaphor.
I always thought Trump was more "Hammerheads" than "Nemesis", at least if we're keeping it to Oil and Gold. ;)

(Trump's never been carefully, correctly anything, after all.)
I'm thinking Nemesis as in Greek mythology.
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Eric the .5b »

Aresen wrote: 02 Oct 2020, 20:48
Eric the .5b wrote: 02 Oct 2020, 20:37
Aresen wrote: 02 Oct 2020, 19:03I wondered if that might be the meaning, but I think Nemesis or, perhaps the Blood of Nessus, might be a better metaphor.
I always thought Trump was more "Hammerheads" than "Nemesis", at least if we're keeping it to Oil and Gold. ;)

(Trump's never been carefully, correctly anything, after all.)
I'm thinking Nemesis as in Greek mythology.
That's the joke, yes. Hence the emoji.
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Re: Orange is the new President

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As long as there aren't any surly teenage Picard clones I think we'll all be okay.
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Eric the .5b »

This could be interesting:



What did the President know, and when did he know it? :D
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Eric the .5b »

D.A. Ridgely wrote: 02 Oct 2020, 20:46
Eric the .5b wrote: 02 Oct 2020, 20:28 Nancy Pelosi moves to the White House. Team Red won't be able to pick a new nominee in a day or two, so there's no Red candidate for the election.

The crazy Red hordes cry coup and probably do some damage, but they have no leadership figure without Trump. (They don't give a shit about Pence.)
If you mean before November 3, the party leadership would pick a replacement candidate and could do so in a day or two if needed.
That takes a reconvened convention or a majority vote of the RNC's members. They might be able to settle on someone in a couple of days, at least with Pence in the hospital before dying.

However, many states have statutory deadlines for certifying the names of their candidates for the general election, and the only one we're not already past is Missouri's, that I can see. Texas has a deadline of no later than 70 days before the election, Florida has a deadline of September 1, Ohio has 90 days, South Carolina September 10, etc.. (And Team Red loses if they don't get Texas, much less any of those others.) That strikes me as setting up for a real mess in combination with state presidential elector laws.

I wouldn't like to be the guy arguing that an already-cast vote for a dead guy is transferable to whoever the party picks.
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Re: Orange is the new President

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Eric the .5b wrote: 02 Oct 2020, 21:27
D.A. Ridgely wrote: 02 Oct 2020, 20:46
Eric the .5b wrote: 02 Oct 2020, 20:28 Nancy Pelosi moves to the White House. Team Red won't be able to pick a new nominee in a day or two, so there's no Red candidate for the election.

The crazy Red hordes cry coup and probably do some damage, but they have no leadership figure without Trump. (They don't give a shit about Pence.)
If you mean before November 3, the party leadership would pick a replacement candidate and could do so in a day or two if needed.
That takes a reconvened convention or a majority vote of the RNC's members. They might be able to settle on someone in a couple of days, at least with Pence in the hospital before dying.

However, many states have statutory deadlines for certifying the names of their candidates for the general election, and the only one we're not already past is Missouri's, that I can see. Texas has a deadline of no later than 70 days before the election, Florida has a deadline of September 1, Ohio has 90 days, South Carolina September 10, etc.. (And Team Red loses if they don't get Texas, much less any of those others.) That strikes me as setting up for a real mess in combination with state presidential elector laws.

I wouldn't like to be the guy arguing that an already-cast vote for a dead guy is transferable to whoever the party picks.
That may be as it may be, but I'm sticking with my prediction that the party would twist arms and offer lollypops to keep the troops in line for the faint hopes of still winning. All those statutes are there to protect the duopoly and the Democrats don't want a default win, so I don't see serious legal obstacles to extemporizing under those circumstances.
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Re: Orange is the new President

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The praetorians are unhappy.
Secret Service agents expressed their anger and frustration to colleagues and friends Friday, saying that the president’s actions have repeatedly put them at risk. “He’s never cared about us,” one agent told a confidant, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe the internal reaction.

Former Secret Service agents said it was unheard of for agents to openly complain about their president but that some currently in the ranks had become convinced during the pandemic that Trump was willing to put his protectors in harm’s way.

Agents who work in field offices around the country complained that since late August, they are no longer being tested when they return home from working at a rally for the president.

“This administration doesn’t care about the Secret Service,” one current agent relayed in an internal discussion group. “It’s so obvious.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html
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Re: Orange is the new President

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D.A. Ridgely wrote: 02 Oct 2020, 21:40 That may be as it may be, but I'm sticking with my prediction that the party would twist arms and offer lollypops to keep the troops in line for the faint hopes of still winning. All those statutes are there to protect the duopoly and the Democrats don't want a default win, so I don't see serious legal obstacles to extemporizing under those circumstances.
Agree with this. It is actually one issue that I can see Blue and Red uniting on, perhaps even to the extent of a Constitutional Amendment to cover the possibility.

Also, considering Biden's age, the possibility he might buy it from COVID or other causes before the election or the inauguration cannot be ruled out.
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by thoreau »

Given that RFK was killed in 1968 and Reagan was no youngster in 1980, I have to think that the parties have procedures and backup plans for the death of a nominee. Continuity of power is a concern for them.

That said, in this polarized era I can see some partisans (not the ones serving on their own party's contingency planning committees) trying to paint the replacement candidate as not merely lacking a mandate (fair game, but not entirely convincing) but illegal and illegitimate (etymologically similar but conceptually distinct).
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Re: Orange is the new President

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Re: Orange is the new President

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Re: Orange is the new President

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Solid
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Re: Orange is the new President

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I endorse much of what Claire Berlinski says here:

https://claireberlinski.substack.com/p/ ... e-evidence
Under normal circumstances, I’d agree. I was taught to respect the office of the Presidency. Americans should respect the office of the Presidency, irrespective of political disagreements. But there’s two sides to that civic compact. The President, too, must respect the office of the Presidency—not to mention his citizenry. And he respects neither.
All they had to do is distance the chairs. All they had to do was wear masks. Instead, they broke every last rule issued by the experts they so disdain. The consequences were just what the experts predicted.

They put the entire executive branch—and parts of the legislative branch—at risk. Justice Roberts was at the Rose Garden, so they put the judicial branch at risk, too.

Then they scattered all over the country, meeting hundreds if not thousands of people. The Senators at the Rose Garden went off to convene with other senators. The President debated Biden—putting him, Wallace, and everyone in attendance at risk.

The reckless disregard for safety and human life is entirely consistent with the whole of the Trump Administration’s pandemic response. Blindingly irresponsible and negligent. In every conceivable way.

Not one of the people who attended, not a single one, had the spine to stand up to the President and say, “This is stupid and dangerous.” What cowardice, and what an absolute dereliction of duty.

Not one of them should ever again hold power over another American.

I have to assume there is no chance of a second Trump term. The Jerry Springer Presidency is over; the proles took the presidency for a joyride and wrapped it around a tree. It’s over, thank God, who works in mysterious ways and really does have a special providence for fools, drunkards, and the United States of America.

When Trump took office, the United States was the undisputed premier power of the world. We are now viewed, more or less, as a rogue state. It will take decades for Americans to be viewed by the rest of the world as a normal country again, if ever. And leader of the free world? Forget it. That’s over.

Americans will want to move on quickly after Trump is defeated. We’ll want to pretend it never happened.

Soon, no one you know will admit they voted for him.

But the world will remember this for a very long time. And it will poison everything.
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by thoreau »

" Columbus wasn’t a profile in courage or brilliance despite the odds, he was a dumb motherfucker that got lucky. Oddly, that makes him the perfect talisman for the Trump era."
--Mo
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Eric the .5b »

D.A. Ridgely wrote: 02 Oct 2020, 21:40That may be as it may be, but I'm sticking with my prediction that the party would twist arms and offer lollypops to keep the troops in line for the faint hopes of still winning. All those statutes are there to protect the duopoly and the Democrats don't want a default win, so I don't see serious legal obstacles to extemporizing under those circumstances.
You're undoubtedly right about a lot of that, but I think the Blues would gleefully take a default win and even fight for it. (I absolutely see the Reds doing so in their place.)

I can also see a lot of people balking at their votes being treated as Red property to be used as the RNC wishes. Maybe particularly the Trumpkins ranting about the deep state.
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Re: Orange is the new President

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thoreau wrote: 02 Oct 2020, 23:26 The praetorians are unhappy.
Secret Service agents expressed their anger and frustration to colleagues and friends Friday, saying that the president’s actions have repeatedly put them at risk. “He’s never cared about us,” one agent told a confidant, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe the internal reaction.

Former Secret Service agents said it was unheard of for agents to openly complain about their president but that some currently in the ranks had become convinced during the pandemic that Trump was willing to put his protectors in harm’s way.

Agents who work in field offices around the country complained that since late August, they are no longer being tested when they return home from working at a rally for the president.

“This administration doesn’t care about the Secret Service,” one current agent relayed in an internal discussion group. “It’s so obvious.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html
There are probably too many eyes on him for this to happen but I have a vision of him unconscious, surrounded by doctors, nurses, secret service, and the highest ranking Republicans. Everybody looks at each other, nobody says a word, then they all just walk out, and let him die.
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