Orange is the new President

User avatar
Mo
Posts: 23201
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:08

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Mo » 28 Sep 2018, 18:05

At the very least destroying evidence of a crime shouldn’t get you promoted to CIA director. Political will or no.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

User avatar
Mo
Posts: 23201
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:08

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Mo » 28 Sep 2018, 18:09

D.A. Ridgely wrote:
Mo wrote:
28 Sep 2018, 17:51
D.A. Ridgely wrote:I have tried to explain to any number of my liberal friends that, whatever the legal merits may be, the Justice Dept position that a sitting president cannot be the subject of a criminal prosecution has nothing to do with impeachment and nothing to do with whether he could be prosecuted the day he left office. Crickets. They are all certain Kavanaugh's entire purpose is to keep Trump from impeachment, prosecution, prison, whatever. It's insane.
The tradition of not prosecuting political opponents and “looking forward, not backwards” does the heavy lifting there. If the next administration tried to try Trump or his family for crimes, there would be a full court press by Rs on how this is what “banana republics” do. What ever happened to those CIA agents that committed torture? Or the senior CIA official that destroyed evidence related to said torture?
I largely agree, but the weight of tradition, let alone a prudent regard for the notion that what goes around comes around, isn't nearly as reliable as it used to be. Regardless, that's entirely separate from whether sitting presidents should be temporarily exempt from having to face criminal charges because the key word there all along has been "temporarily." No one has ever, as far as I know, taken it as a legal position that presidents ipso fact get a lifetime pass for whatever crimes they may have committed. That something doesn't happen is one thing; that it couldn't happen as a matter of law is quite another.
The political firestorm that would follow, because there would be a significant number of office holders that would be considered, fairly or unfairly, co-conspirators, make it such that any administration would have to be willing to burn their political capital on it. One has to take into account reality, rather than purely philosophical considerations. A policy of no sitting president can be indicted for crimes leads to, no president will be indicted for crimes.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

User avatar
Warren
Posts: 24839
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:03
Location: Goat Rope MO
Contact:

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Warren » 28 Sep 2018, 18:56

Mo wrote:
28 Sep 2018, 18:05
At the very least destroying evidence of a crime shouldn’t get you promoted to CIA director. Political will or no.
Yeah, I don't think people really give a shit.
THIS SPACE FOR RENT

User avatar
D.A. Ridgely
Posts: 17940
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:09
Location: The Other Side

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 28 Sep 2018, 19:10

Mo wrote:
28 Sep 2018, 18:09
D.A. Ridgely wrote:
Mo wrote:
28 Sep 2018, 17:51
D.A. Ridgely wrote:I have tried to explain to any number of my liberal friends that, whatever the legal merits may be, the Justice Dept position that a sitting president cannot be the subject of a criminal prosecution has nothing to do with impeachment and nothing to do with whether he could be prosecuted the day he left office. Crickets. They are all certain Kavanaugh's entire purpose is to keep Trump from impeachment, prosecution, prison, whatever. It's insane.
The tradition of not prosecuting political opponents and “looking forward, not backwards” does the heavy lifting there. If the next administration tried to try Trump or his family for crimes, there would be a full court press by Rs on how this is what “banana republics” do. What ever happened to those CIA agents that committed torture? Or the senior CIA official that destroyed evidence related to said torture?
I largely agree, but the weight of tradition, let alone a prudent regard for the notion that what goes around comes around, isn't nearly as reliable as it used to be. Regardless, that's entirely separate from whether sitting presidents should be temporarily exempt from having to face criminal charges because the key word there all along has been "temporarily." No one has ever, as far as I know, taken it as a legal position that presidents ipso fact get a lifetime pass for whatever crimes they may have committed. That something doesn't happen is one thing; that it couldn't happen as a matter of law is quite another.
The political firestorm that would follow, because there would be a significant number of office holders that would be considered, fairly or unfairly, co-conspirators, make it such that any administration would have to be willing to burn their political capital on it. One has to take into account reality, rather than purely philosophical considerations. A policy of no sitting president can be indicted for crimes leads to, no president will be indicted for crimes.
Nothing ever happens until it does. Hotter political firestorms are just part of the political climate change. It's one thing, again, to say that what one does in office and pursuant to that office won't ever end up being prosecuted; quite another to say that, for example, a continuing conspiracy to evade taxes long before, during and after holding office would never be prosecuted. Also, U.S. Attorneys' offices have considerable autonomy and, short of a blanket pardon, it's not clear the DoJ or even POTUS could stop a prosecution. Then there are state laws. *shrug*

User avatar
Shem
Posts: 7218
Joined: 27 Apr 2010, 00:27

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Shem » 29 Sep 2018, 00:40

Donald Trump the guy probably won't ever face charges, but I"m pretty sure the Trump Organization can look forward to being gutted by the NYAG over the next 3-5 years, which actually might be worse for him.
"VOTE SHEMOCRACY! You will only have to do it once!" -Loyalty Officer Aresen

User avatar
Aresen
Posts: 14718
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 20:18
Location: Great White Pacific Northwest

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Aresen » 29 Sep 2018, 00:50

Shem wrote:
29 Sep 2018, 00:40
Donald Trump the guy probably won't ever face charges, but I"m pretty sure the Trump Organization can look forward to being gutted by the NYAG over the next 3-5 years, which actually might be worse for him.
I am sure he would rather fire them himself.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

User avatar
thoreau
Posts: 26505
Joined: 06 May 2010, 12:56
Location: Back to the lab again

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by thoreau » 29 Sep 2018, 01:28

Shem wrote:Donald Trump the guy probably won't ever face charges, but I"m pretty sure the Trump Organization can look forward to being gutted by the NYAG over the next 3-5 years, which actually might be worse for him.
I want footage of the Sheriff's deputies dragging him out of Trump Tower. I will watch it on a loop and masturbate until my body is drained of all fluid.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
--Shem

User avatar
Hugh Akston
Posts: 17285
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:51
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora Reina de los Angeles

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Hugh Akston » 29 Sep 2018, 16:38

thoreau wrote:
29 Sep 2018, 01:28
Shem wrote:Donald Trump the guy probably won't ever face charges, but I"m pretty sure the Trump Organization can look forward to being gutted by the NYAG over the next 3-5 years, which actually might be worse for him.
I want footage of the Sheriff's deputies dragging him out of Trump Tower. I will watch it on a loop and masturbate until my body is drained of all fluid.
And what violent crimes has he been accused of that would justify physically restraining and manhandling a septuagenarian in poor physical shape?
"Is a Lulztopia the best we can hope for?!?" ~Taktix®
"Inexplicably cockfighting monsters that live in your pants" ~Jadagul

User avatar
thoreau
Posts: 26505
Joined: 06 May 2010, 12:56
Location: Back to the lab again

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by thoreau » 29 Sep 2018, 16:55

I'm talking about eviction when he loses his real estate empire.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
--Shem

User avatar
Jennifer
Posts: 22873
Joined: 28 Apr 2010, 14:03

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Jennifer » 29 Sep 2018, 17:01

Trump did urge police officers to mistreat suspects and "accidentally" bonk their heads against car roofs when putting them in the backs of police cars. Surely it would be unjust to suggest any cop tasked with Trump should be held to a higher standard than those assigned less illustrious suspects.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

User avatar
Kolohe
Posts: 13522
Joined: 06 May 2010, 10:51

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Kolohe » 29 Sep 2018, 17:58

Hugh Akston wrote:
29 Sep 2018, 16:38
thoreau wrote:
29 Sep 2018, 01:28
Shem wrote:Donald Trump the guy probably won't ever face charges, but I"m pretty sure the Trump Organization can look forward to being gutted by the NYAG over the next 3-5 years, which actually might be worse for him.
I want footage of the Sheriff's deputies dragging him out of Trump Tower. I will watch it on a loop and masturbate until my body is drained of all fluid.
And what violent crimes has he been accused of that would justify physically restraining and manhandling a septuagenarian in poor physical shape?
Murder of residents of Yemen.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

User avatar
Jennifer
Posts: 22873
Joined: 28 Apr 2010, 14:03

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Jennifer » 29 Sep 2018, 18:05

Kolohe wrote:
29 Sep 2018, 17:58
Hugh Akston wrote:
29 Sep 2018, 16:38
thoreau wrote:
29 Sep 2018, 01:28
Shem wrote:Donald Trump the guy probably won't ever face charges, but I"m pretty sure the Trump Organization can look forward to being gutted by the NYAG over the next 3-5 years, which actually might be worse for him.
I want footage of the Sheriff's deputies dragging him out of Trump Tower. I will watch it on a loop and masturbate until my body is drained of all fluid.
And what violent crimes has he been accused of that would justify physically restraining and manhandling a septuagenarian in poor physical shape?
Murder of residents of Yemen.
"Removing toddlers from their parents, locking said toddlers in cages and, in many cases, making the poor kids go weeks or even months without ever being bathed" might also qualify. Though perhaps these are only bad things when done by younger men in good physical shape; I don't know what the BMI/personal accountability cutoff is.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

User avatar
Aresen
Posts: 14718
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 20:18
Location: Great White Pacific Northwest

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Aresen » 29 Sep 2018, 18:06

Kolohe wrote:
29 Sep 2018, 17:58
Hugh Akston wrote:
29 Sep 2018, 16:38
thoreau wrote:
29 Sep 2018, 01:28
Shem wrote:Donald Trump the guy probably won't ever face charges, but I"m pretty sure the Trump Organization can look forward to being gutted by the NYAG over the next 3-5 years, which actually might be worse for him.
I want footage of the Sheriff's deputies dragging him out of Trump Tower. I will watch it on a loop and masturbate until my body is drained of all fluid.
And what violent crimes has he been accused of that would justify physically restraining and manhandling a septuagenarian in poor physical shape?
Murder of residents of Yemen.
Beat me to it.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

User avatar
thoreau
Posts: 26505
Joined: 06 May 2010, 12:56
Location: Back to the lab again

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by thoreau » 29 Sep 2018, 18:43

To be clear, I was talking about the scenario where his business empire is dismantled, he loses most of his assets, Trump Tower has to be sold, the new owner evicts him, and he refuses to leave.

I assume that it's still libertarian for a property owner to call armed men to remove a trespasser, yes?
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
--Shem

User avatar
Hugh Akston
Posts: 17285
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:51
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora Reina de los Angeles

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Hugh Akston » 29 Sep 2018, 18:51

Aresen wrote:
29 Sep 2018, 18:06
Kolohe wrote:
29 Sep 2018, 17:58
Hugh Akston wrote:
29 Sep 2018, 16:38
thoreau wrote:
29 Sep 2018, 01:28
Shem wrote:Donald Trump the guy probably won't ever face charges, but I"m pretty sure the Trump Organization can look forward to being gutted by the NYAG over the next 3-5 years, which actually might be worse for him.
I want footage of the Sheriff's deputies dragging him out of Trump Tower. I will watch it on a loop and masturbate until my body is drained of all fluid.
And what violent crimes has he been accused of that would justify physically restraining and manhandling a septuagenarian in poor physical shape?
Murder of residents of Yemen.
Beat me to it.
You guys just aren't paying attention. Ordering the deaths of people he's never met on the other side of the planet who pose no threat to anyone in the United States is one of the many legitimate things Donald Trump has done since taking office.

"Is a Lulztopia the best we can hope for?!?" ~Taktix®
"Inexplicably cockfighting monsters that live in your pants" ~Jadagul

User avatar
Aresen
Posts: 14718
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 20:18
Location: Great White Pacific Northwest

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Aresen » 29 Sep 2018, 18:57

Hugh Akston wrote:
29 Sep 2018, 18:51
Aresen wrote:
29 Sep 2018, 18:06
Kolohe wrote:
29 Sep 2018, 17:58
Hugh Akston wrote:
29 Sep 2018, 16:38
thoreau wrote:
29 Sep 2018, 01:28
Shem wrote:Donald Trump the guy probably won't ever face charges, but I"m pretty sure the Trump Organization can look forward to being gutted by the NYAG over the next 3-5 years, which actually might be worse for him.
I want footage of the Sheriff's deputies dragging him out of Trump Tower. I will watch it on a loop and masturbate until my body is drained of all fluid.
And what violent crimes has he been accused of that would justify physically restraining and manhandling a septuagenarian in poor physical shape?
Murder of residents of Yemen.
Beat me to it.
You guys just aren't paying attention. Ordering the deaths of people he's never met on the other side of the planet who pose no threat to anyone in the United States is one of the many legitimate things Donald Trump has done since taking office.

Ok. If we can't manhandle him, can we drone him?
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

User avatar
Mo
Posts: 23201
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:08

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Mo » 29 Sep 2018, 19:09

I agree with Hugh. The Yemen stuff is pretty normal. I would, however, go with Jennifer, that the family separation stuff is both aberrant and horrific.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

User avatar
Aresen
Posts: 14718
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 20:18
Location: Great White Pacific Northwest

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Aresen » 29 Sep 2018, 20:00

Mo wrote:
29 Sep 2018, 19:09
I agree with Hugh. The Yemen stuff is pretty normal. I would, however, go with Jennifer, that the family separation stuff is both aberrant and horrific.
WTF, Mo? Are we so acclimatized to war crimes that we describe them as 'normal'?
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

User avatar
D.A. Ridgely
Posts: 17940
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:09
Location: The Other Side

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 29 Sep 2018, 20:41

Aresen wrote:
29 Sep 2018, 20:00
Mo wrote:
29 Sep 2018, 19:09
I agree with Hugh. The Yemen stuff is pretty normal. I would, however, go with Jennifer, that the family separation stuff is both aberrant and horrific.
WTF, Mo? Are we so acclimatized to war crimes that we describe them as 'normal'?
Haven't you been following U.S. history at all?

User avatar
Aresen
Posts: 14718
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 20:18
Location: Great White Pacific Northwest

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Aresen » 29 Sep 2018, 20:43

D.A. Ridgely wrote:
29 Sep 2018, 20:41
Aresen wrote:
29 Sep 2018, 20:00
Mo wrote:
29 Sep 2018, 19:09
I agree with Hugh. The Yemen stuff is pretty normal. I would, however, go with Jennifer, that the family separation stuff is both aberrant and horrific.
WTF, Mo? Are we so acclimatized to war crimes that we describe them as 'normal'?
Haven't you been following U.S. history at all?
A point to the Texan.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

User avatar
Kolohe
Posts: 13522
Joined: 06 May 2010, 10:51

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Kolohe » 29 Sep 2018, 21:36

thoreau wrote:
29 Sep 2018, 18:43
To be clear, I was talking about the scenario where his business empire is dismantled, he loses most of his assets, Trump Tower has to be sold, the new owner evicts him, and he refuses to leave.

I assume that it's still libertarian for a property owner to call armed men to remove a trespasser, yes?
Oh, I'm definitely team you.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

User avatar
Hugh Akston
Posts: 17285
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:51
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora Reina de los Angeles

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Hugh Akston » 29 Sep 2018, 22:18

Mo wrote:
29 Sep 2018, 19:09
I agree with Hugh. The Yemen stuff is pretty normal. I would, however, go with Jennifer, that the family separation stuff is both aberrant and horrific.
Give it a few years. Once official procedures are established and it becomes commonplace, it will cease to be immoral.
"Is a Lulztopia the best we can hope for?!?" ~Taktix®
"Inexplicably cockfighting monsters that live in your pants" ~Jadagul

User avatar
Aresen
Posts: 14718
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 20:18
Location: Great White Pacific Northwest

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Aresen » 29 Sep 2018, 22:33

Hugh Akston wrote:
29 Sep 2018, 22:18
Mo wrote:
29 Sep 2018, 19:09
I agree with Hugh. The Yemen stuff is pretty normal. I would, however, go with Jennifer, that the family separation stuff is both aberrant and horrific.
Give it a few years. Once official procedures are established and it becomes commonplace, it will cease to be immoral.
It's Saturday night and I'm looking at the Internet. I did not need another reason to be depressed, Hugh. :(
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

User avatar
Pham Nuwen
Posts: 6800
Joined: 27 Apr 2010, 02:17

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Pham Nuwen » 30 Sep 2018, 02:24

Hugh Akston wrote:
29 Sep 2018, 22:18
Mo wrote:
29 Sep 2018, 19:09
I agree with Hugh. The Yemen stuff is pretty normal. I would, however, go with Jennifer, that the family separation stuff is both aberrant and horrific.
Give it a few years. Once official procedures are established and it becomes commonplace, it will cease to be immoral.
Booooo! Everyone boooo! this man!
Goddamn libertarian message board. Hugh Akston

leave me to my mescaline smoothie in peace, please. dhex

User avatar
Dangerman
Posts: 6264
Joined: 07 May 2010, 12:26

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Dangerman » 01 Oct 2018, 11:09

Just a reminder that new tariffs go to 10% beginning 10/1/18, and 25% 1/1/19.



Steve reminds us that shipping is also affected because manufacturers are rushing to get product out of China, and this is eating up all available outbound cargo space and driving up prices.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest