Orange is the new President

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Kolohe
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Kolohe » 25 Sep 2018, 14:01

Mo wrote:
25 Sep 2018, 09:09
Kolohe wrote:
24 Sep 2018, 20:55
Good thing that officially per the Constitution, the Prez isn't involved.
New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress
Doesn't the president need to sign the enabling act?
I did look this up after a posted the above. If I'm reading things correctly, there doesn't necessarily need to be an enabling act. They decided with Alaska and Hawaii to make one (which was the norm) and in that particular case, for some reason, loop Ike into the final process (which was not the norm) It seems to me they did that way for one, as a nod to the then new, modern 'strong' presidency, and for two, to assuage fears that admittance of either one was mostly for partisan purposes (and at the time, Hawaii was the Republican state, Alaska was the Democratic one)
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Mo
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Mo » 25 Sep 2018, 14:08

There’s also nothing in Senate rules that make statehood filibusterable if it’s not a bill. So ads could just ram through a PR statehood if they controlled the House and Senate. The other R versions require carving up a state, which means the state legislature has to approve.
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lunchstealer
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by lunchstealer » 25 Sep 2018, 14:10

Mo wrote:
25 Sep 2018, 12:05
So the UNGA actually made Trump blush with embarrassment for (sorta) calling him out on a dumb lie.



ETA: Notable because I was surprised he could feel shame for being called out on a lie
He can't.

He can however feel shame at being a laughingstock. Righteous indignation he feeds on, but laughter cuts like a knife.
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thoreau
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by thoreau » 25 Sep 2018, 14:16

Mo wrote:
25 Sep 2018, 14:08
There’s also nothing in Senate rules that make statehood filibusterable if it’s not a bill. So ads could just ram through a PR statehood if they controlled the House and Senate. The other R versions require carving up a state, which means the state legislature has to approve.
I kind of think they should. And the Virgin Islands. And Guam. And the Northern Marianas. And American Samoa.
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Mo
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Mo » 25 Sep 2018, 15:54

And DC outside of the federal enclave.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Kolohe
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Kolohe » 25 Sep 2018, 16:24

Having lived inside the diamond for half my life, I always think there's a bit of question begging on what is 'the federal enclave'

(Fun fact: there was a plan for a bit to reincorporate the Pentagon reservation back into DC just after it was built)

Eta places like Guam, CNMI and American Samoa are genuinely too small to be their own states. But I could see just rolling their populations into a particular state for election purposes (it doesn't even need to be Hawaii).

Eta 2 - we have too many states. I am not a crank.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Aresen » 25 Sep 2018, 16:32

Kolohe wrote:
25 Sep 2018, 16:24
Eta 2 - we have too many states. I am not a crank.
The state of delusion seems ascendant at present. Although despair is way up as well.
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Mo
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Orange is the new President

Post by Mo » 25 Sep 2018, 16:45

Kolohe wrote:Having lived inside the diamond for half my life, I always think there's a bit of question begging on what is 'the federal enclave'

(Fun fact: there was a plan for a bit to reincorporate the Pentagon reservation back into DC just after it was built)

Eta places like Guam, CNMI and American Samoa are genuinely too small to be their own states. But I could see just rolling their populations into a particular state for election purposes (it doesn't even need to be Hawaii).

Eta 2 - we have too many states. I am not a crank.
Combine Wyoming and the Dakotas into rectangle land and we can talk. Also, combine New Hampshire and Vermont. Keep Rhode Island because we need it as a unit of measurement.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Ellie » 25 Sep 2018, 17:44

South Dakotans (and, I assume, North Dakotans) would be PISSED if you tried to lump them together. South Dakotans have a major chip on their shoulder about being the better Dakota. :lol:
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Eric the .5b » 25 Sep 2018, 18:09

I'm not sure we need fewer states, and I'm not entirely against splitting up the biggest states. I do think we may need some "regional" level of governance between states and the national government (and to move some federal powers to bodes at that level).
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Aresen » 25 Sep 2018, 18:56

Eric the .5b wrote:
25 Sep 2018, 18:09
I'm not sure we need fewer states, and I'm not entirely against splitting up the biggest states. I do think we may need some "regional" level of governance between states and the national government (and to move some federal powers to bodes at that level).
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO x 10^infinidy

Adding another level of government just adds more push-me-pull-you to competing and overlapping jurisdictional claims between bureaucracies. Or worse, they 'pool' their powers the way they do with asset forfeiture, information sharing and code enforcement.
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Warren » 25 Sep 2018, 19:00

Well we damned sure don't need anymore states. There's no room for any more stars on the flag.
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Aresen » 25 Sep 2018, 19:11

Warren wrote:
25 Sep 2018, 19:00
Well we damned sure don't need anymore states. There's no room for any more stars on the flag.
Image
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Eric the .5b » 25 Sep 2018, 19:17

Aresen wrote:
25 Sep 2018, 18:56
Adding another level of government just adds more push-me-pull-you to competing and overlapping jurisdictional claims between bureaucracies. Or worse, they 'pool' their powers the way they do with asset forfeiture, information sharing and code enforcement.
I'm all for the first. Otherwise, we could just have some unitary government.
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Jadagul » 25 Sep 2018, 19:53

Nah. The problem with overlapping jurisdictional claims is that you actually need to satisfy everybody.

One of the major reasons our development and infrastructure costs are so much higher than even the costs in, like, France, is that we often have twenty or thirty different governmental bodies that need to sign off on a project before it can go ahead. Adding another level of government probably adds another half-dozen to the pile.

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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Eric the .5b » 25 Sep 2018, 20:19

Jadagul wrote:
25 Sep 2018, 19:53
Nah. The problem with overlapping jurisdictional claims is that you actually need to satisfy everybody.

One of the major reasons our development and infrastructure costs are so much higher than even the costs in, like, France, is that we often have twenty or thirty different governmental bodies that need to sign off on a project before it can go ahead. Adding another level of government probably adds another half-dozen to the pile.
Again, if you want to go with a unitary government with everything down to the dogcatcher under the direction of Congress and the President, sure. In the meantime, I'd like to break up some of those federal agencies and replace them with regional ones.
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Jadagul » 25 Sep 2018, 20:21

Eric the .5b wrote:
25 Sep 2018, 20:19
Jadagul wrote:
25 Sep 2018, 19:53
Nah. The problem with overlapping jurisdictional claims is that you actually need to satisfy everybody.

One of the major reasons our development and infrastructure costs are so much higher than even the costs in, like, France, is that we often have twenty or thirty different governmental bodies that need to sign off on a project before it can go ahead. Adding another level of government probably adds another half-dozen to the pile.
Again, if you want to go with a unitary government with everything down to the dogcatcher under the direction of Congress and the President, sure. In the meantime, I'd like to break up some of those federal agencies and replace them with regional ones.
That's more defensible, but adding another layer is likely to add regional agencies without eliminating the national ones. Which is horrible.

(There are definite downsides to regionalization in the sense of "My rail project from Los Angeles to Texas now needs three regional approvals instead of one national one". But that's also the point of regionalization, so it's not such a conclusive argument as "don't add extra layers of bureaucracy if you can't get rid of some").

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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Eric the .5b » 25 Sep 2018, 20:34

Jadagul wrote:
25 Sep 2018, 20:21
That's more defensible
And it's what I said in the first place.
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Shem » 25 Sep 2018, 21:31

I'll only approve Puerto Rico as a state if we can use that bitchin' circular star arrangement for the field. Or the Pac-Man one:

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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by lunchstealer » 26 Sep 2018, 03:05

Ellie wrote:
25 Sep 2018, 17:44
South Dakotans (and, I assume, North Dakotans) would be PISSED if you tried to lump them together. South Dakotans have a major chip on their shoulder about being the better Dakota. :lol:
They would still be the least shitty Dakota. I mean, they are both the least shitty Dakota in the hearts of most Americans because nobody knows which is which. Like. Sioux Falls North Dakota. Fargo North Dakota. Winot North Dakota. Which of those isn't really in North Dakota? Nobody knows.
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by thoreau » 26 Sep 2018, 03:31

Donald Trump wrote:“You know, when he said that really, what he was focused on was trying to be number one in his class at Yale, to me, that was so believable,” Trump said. “I understand college very well. I understand being No. 1 in your class, and I understand a lot of things.”
https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/donald-trump-college/

On that same day I got into another argument with colleagues adamantly standing by their whole "All ideas are equally valid, nobody's research is bad, nobody [except this guy arguing with them] should be criticized, etc." schtick. So, yeah, at this point, whatever. I no longer give a fuck about anything. Sure, Trump understands college. Trade wars are good and easy to win. Everybody is great. The STEM shortage is real. Whatevz.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Highway » 26 Sep 2018, 08:39

Hah! You can't fool me! Sioux Falls is really in Iowa!

;)
lunchstealer wrote:
Ellie wrote:
25 Sep 2018, 17:44
South Dakotans (and, I assume, North Dakotans) would be PISSED if you tried to lump them together. South Dakotans have a major chip on their shoulder about being the better Dakota.
They would still be the least shitty Dakota. I mean, they are both the least shitty Dakota in the hearts of most Americans because nobody knows which is which. Like. Sioux Falls North Dakota. Fargo North Dakota. Winot North Dakota. Which of those isn't really in North Dakota? Nobody knows.
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Warren » 26 Sep 2018, 10:08

Highway wrote:
26 Sep 2018, 08:39
Hah! You can't fool me! Sioux Falls is really in Iowa!
You're thinking of Sioux City. That's in Mississippi.
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Aresen » 26 Sep 2018, 10:17

Sioux what?
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by lunchstealer » 26 Sep 2018, 11:34

Aresen wrote:
26 Sep 2018, 10:17
Sioux what?
I think she's the lead singer of The Banshees.
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