Page 188 of 209

Re: Orange is the new President

Posted: 13 Feb 2018, 17:44
by Jennifer
Kwix wrote:
13 Feb 2018, 17:35
I like that the existing commodity food programs are slated to be rolled into this.

https://www.fns.usda.gov/fdd/food-distribution-programs
Of course, being government:
How much does the program
cost?

In FY 2017, Congress appropriated $375.4
million for TEFAP - $316 million to purchase
food and $59.4 million for administrative support
for State and local agencies.
In addition to USDA Foods purchased with
appropriated funds, TEFAP distributes ‘bonus’
foods purchased by USDA to support
agriculture markets
. In FY 2016, $305.52 million
of such foods were made available to TEFAP
According to the Politico article the source of this new and innovative plan was:
(USDA spokesman)Murtaugh said the concept was developed internally at USDA.
:shock: :shock: :shock:
Yeah, this'll work out just great. Take away half people's benefits, replace it with food they of course did not choose and might not even be able to eat -- milk for the lactose-intolerant, peanut butter for the hideously allergic-- and I'd not be surprised if it were for all practical purposes impossible for most of The Poors to actually physically GET the fucking boxes in the first place: picking up that 20-pound box will be done someplace not within walking distance and miles from the nearest bus line and even if there is transit options available, good luck schlepping that big bulky box home by yourself.

To paraphrase something I read elsewhere: this administration keeps finding new depths of patriotism I never knew I had, and outraging them.

Our country was never perfect and always did a lot of cruel and unjust things, but it was never so openly, widely, needlessly cruel. And growing crueler.

Re: Orange is the new President

Posted: 13 Feb 2018, 22:20
by D.A. Ridgely

Re: Orange is the new President

Posted: 14 Feb 2018, 06:21
by Tuco
Pretty good. And now I know what song's going to be going through my head all day.

Re: Orange is the new President

Posted: 14 Feb 2018, 08:34
by nicole
Kwix wrote:
13 Feb 2018, 17:35
I like that the existing commodity food programs are slated to be rolled into this.

https://www.fns.usda.gov/fdd/food-distribution-programs
Of course, being government:
How much does the program
cost?

In FY 2017, Congress appropriated $375.4
million for TEFAP - $316 million to purchase
food and $59.4 million for administrative support
for State and local agencies.
In addition to USDA Foods purchased with
appropriated funds, TEFAP distributes ‘bonus’
foods purchased by USDA to support
agriculture markets
. In FY 2016, $305.52 million
of such foods were made available to TEFAP
According to the Politico article the source of this new and innovative plan was:
(USDA spokesman)Murtaugh said the concept was developed internally at USDA.
:shock: :shock: :shock:
Yeah I mean it’s obviously more welfare for farmers.

Re: Orange is the new President

Posted: 14 Feb 2018, 08:36
by Kolohe
JasonL wrote:
13 Feb 2018, 10:34
??? The right wing obsession with SNAP is baffling.
Is it because they got the power?

Re: Orange is the new President

Posted: 14 Feb 2018, 09:09
by JasonL
People who assert "complex social thing is definitely X all the way down and it's so obvious people asking questions should themselves be castigated" are not sophisticated in their thinking about that issue. There are too many variables to be that confident period.

Re: Orange is the new President

Posted: 14 Feb 2018, 09:54
by Jennifer
JasonL wrote:
13 Feb 2018, 10:34
??? The right wing obsession with SNAP is baffling.
No mystery why the right wingers hate it; its recipients are poor people who lack bootstrappiness, else they wouldn't need help in the first place. Plus of course they like to spread bullshit stories like this:



Yup. People buy TVs with their food stamps ALL THE TIME.

Re: Orange is the new President

Posted: 14 Feb 2018, 11:01
by Highway
Kolohe wrote:
14 Feb 2018, 08:36
JasonL wrote:
13 Feb 2018, 10:34
??? The right wing obsession with SNAP is baffling.
Is it because they got the power?
They seem to be getting kind of hectic, tho.

Re: Orange is the new President

Posted: 14 Feb 2018, 12:34
by thoreau
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/13/us/p ... trump.html

The part about paying with his own money is no great mystery. Cohen has spent his career getting paid to do all sorts of stuff for Trump; he can cough up $130k and pad some other billing (to Trump and/or various intermediaries) later, just to retain some plausible deniability.

The bigger mystery is why Stormy Daniels would accept such a small amount for hush money. A major party presidential candidate had an affair with a pr0n star and it gets covered up for low six figures? She could have cashed in for 7 figures easily, especially with the promotional opportunities.

Re: Orange is the new President

Posted: 14 Feb 2018, 13:36
by Mo
He did not pay with his own money, he used his own money to facilitate the transaction. Very different.

Re: Orange is the new President

Posted: 14 Feb 2018, 22:03
by Mo
How does the White House Counsel not yet have full clearance?

Re: Orange is the new President

Posted: 14 Feb 2018, 22:04
by thoreau
He only hires the best people. The best. Bigly.

Re: Orange is the new President

Posted: 14 Feb 2018, 23:36
by D.A. Ridgely
Mo wrote:
14 Feb 2018, 22:03
How does the White House Counsel not yet have full clearance?
Is there a scintilla of doubt in anybody's mind that if he wasn't actually the president, Trump couldn't get a hall pass let alone a security clearance?

Re: Orange is the new President

Posted: 14 Feb 2018, 23:37
by Mo
D.A. Ridgely wrote:
14 Feb 2018, 23:36
Mo wrote:
14 Feb 2018, 22:03
How does the White House Counsel not yet have full clearance?
Is there a scintilla of doubt in anybody's mind that if he wasn't actually the president, Trump couldn't get a hall pass let alone a security clearance?
Nah, but neither could Clinton and I suspect Kennedy. I would suspect that Obama would have issues just because of his "urban" associations and international childhood.

Re: Orange is the new President

Posted: 14 Feb 2018, 23:55
by thoreau
I suspect that Obama could get some level of clearance, but maybe not the highest levels.

Trump, were he not President, could probably not even get the lowest level internships at defense contractors making relatively uninteresting tech.

With Clinton, well, given human nature, I have to believe that the military-industrial complex is more tolerant of adultery than the official policies might state. You can't have that many people holding clearances if you aren't willing to tolerate a few sexual indiscretions. I'm sure they have limits (e.g. anyone who's willing to pay out large sums of hush money is prima facie unclearable) but I suspect that they tolerate more than they officially claim.

Plus, when you look at some of the gun runners and whatnot that the CIA has worked with, you can't tell me that a spotless record is a necessary qualification to get involved in dark and dirty deeds. Then again, I guess those guys have skillz that make them worth the risk, whereas a would-be desk jockey better be spotless if he wants that cushy salary and benefits.

Re: Orange is the new President

Posted: 15 Feb 2018, 00:02
by Mo
The draft dodging, weed smoking plus hiding affairs (making him vulnerable to blackmail) would have sunk WJC.

Re: Orange is the new President

Posted: 15 Feb 2018, 00:06
by Aresen
D.A. Ridgely wrote:
14 Feb 2018, 23:36
Mo wrote:
14 Feb 2018, 22:03
How does the White House Counsel not yet have full clearance?
Is there a scintilla of doubt in anybody's mind that if he wasn't actually the president, Trump couldn't get a hall pass let alone a security clearance?
There was a scene in the movie "Tora, Tora, Tora" where the guy in charge of the Magic codebreaking team took FDR off the list of those permitted to see the decryptions. I have no idea how truthful the story was, but I have often wondered if it ever applied to any of FDR's successors.

Re: Orange is the new President

Posted: 15 Feb 2018, 00:41
by Eric the .5b
GWB would probably have had trouble getting clearance, too.

Re: Orange is the new President

Posted: 15 Feb 2018, 00:59
by Shem
Mo wrote:
15 Feb 2018, 00:02
The draft dodging, weed smoking plus hiding affairs (making him vulnerable to blackmail) would have sunk WJC.
The first two happened long enough before that they'd be quickly chalked up to being youthful indiscretions. The adultery, on the other hand, would have gotten him bounced. Not the fucking other women part, the secrecy part.

Re: Orange is the new President

Posted: 15 Feb 2018, 01:06
by Aresen
Shem wrote:
15 Feb 2018, 00:59
Mo wrote:
15 Feb 2018, 00:02
The draft dodging, weed smoking plus hiding affairs (making him vulnerable to blackmail) would have sunk WJC.
The first two happened long enough before that they'd be quickly chalked up to being youthful indiscretions. The adultery, on the other hand, would have gotten him bounced. Not the fucking other women part, the secrecy part.
Trump claims he never used marijuana. If that is so, he is probably the last president of whom that will ever be true.

Re: Orange is the new President

Posted: 15 Feb 2018, 01:07
by thoreau
I once heard a story about a technician at a nuclear weapons lab. He candidly admitted to a whole bunch of personal activities that most people wouldn't want to talk about. He got to keep his clearance because they figured it was impossible to blackmail him.

I'm sure it got a bit embellished in the telling, but I took it as more of an illustration of a principle than an assurance that anybody could get away with that stuff.

Re: Orange is the new President

Posted: 15 Feb 2018, 01:24
by D.A. Ridgely
Aresen wrote:
15 Feb 2018, 00:06
D.A. Ridgely wrote:
14 Feb 2018, 23:36
Mo wrote:
14 Feb 2018, 22:03
How does the White House Counsel not yet have full clearance?
Is there a scintilla of doubt in anybody's mind that if he wasn't actually the president, Trump couldn't get a hall pass let alone a security clearance?
There was a scene in the movie "Tora, Tora, Tora" where the guy in charge of the Magic codebreaking team took FDR off the list of those permitted to see the decryptions. I have no idea how truthful the story was, but I have often wondered if it ever applied to any of FDR's successors.
If the president gets wind of something and wants to see it, there's no legal authority to withhold it. However, access to classified material requires both the appropriate level clearance and the need to know. I can think of any number of specific bits of classified information POTUS arguably would have no need to know.

Re: Orange is the new President

Posted: 15 Feb 2018, 11:20
by Kolohe
Mo wrote:
14 Feb 2018, 22:03
How does the White House Counsel not yet have full clearance?
Down in the trenches, it can take a full year to go from SF-86 (and its successors) submittal to final adjudication for TS/SCI. It was taking even longer than that during the mid 00s personnel surges. (and mismanagement, and bureaucratic responsiblity shifting every couple of years)

But I got to think the Top. People. have top priority. (I would like to see someone go back and see how long it took the counterpart Obama administration officials to get their final clearance)

Re: Orange is the new President

Posted: 15 Feb 2018, 11:23
by Kolohe
D.A. Ridgely wrote:
15 Feb 2018, 01:24
If the president gets wind of something and wants to see it, there's no legal authority to withhold it. However, access to classified material requires both the appropriate level clearance and the need to know. I can think of any number of specific bits of classified information POTUS arguably would have no need to know.
I can't really make the case that there is nothing the President doesn't 'need to know'. Practically, though, there's stuff that's compartments within compartments that even a dilligent President would not know the full details of. (and probably wouldn't want to, as it would be micromanaging)

Re: Orange is the new President

Posted: 15 Feb 2018, 11:44
by Mo
Kolohe wrote:
15 Feb 2018, 11:20
Mo wrote:
14 Feb 2018, 22:03
How does the White House Counsel not yet have full clearance?
Down in the trenches, it can take a full year to go from SF-86 (and its successors) submittal to final adjudication for TS/SCI. It was taking even longer than that during the mid 00s personnel surges. (and mismanagement, and bureaucratic responsiblity shifting every couple of years)

But I got to think the Top. People. have top priority. (I would like to see someone go back and see how long it took the counterpart Obama administration officials to get their final clearance)
Yeah, this is either incompetence on the WH's part or extreme shadiness of the characters.