Orange is the new President

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Jennifer
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Jennifer »

Not making even a token visit to John Lewis' body in state is petty even for Trump. (Granted, Trump is likely bigoted enough to think America would be a better place today had Lewis and his friends STFU back in the day, rather than get all uppity and forget their place.)

Though, apparently, he has also refused to add Obama's official portrait to the gallery of presidential paintings? I find it unfathomable ... not so much that he could be so petty about these things, but that he genuinely doesn't understand HOW bad he's making himself look? (I remember being similarly baffled when he initially refused to lower flags to half-staff after McCain died-- and unlike Obama and Lewis, McCain was from his own party.)
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Eric the .5b »

Jennifer wrote:
28 Jul 2020, 19:22
I find it unfathomable ... not so much that he could be so petty about these things, but that he genuinely doesn't understand HOW bad he's making himself look?
I'm comfortable with, "He's mentally incompetent, but too many people have jobs riding on making him seem competent." It's basically how The Apprentice changed his image from "that rich guy in New York who keeps going bankrupt or remarrying" to "serious businessman", even though they basically had to edit all the episodes around justifying the completely random decisions that Trump made.

That's just something that's easier to maintain the facade around in the controlled conditions of a TV show.
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thoreau
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by thoreau »

Jennifer wrote:
28 Jul 2020, 19:22
Not making even a token visit to John Lewis' body in state is petty even for Trump. (Granted, Trump is likely bigoted enough to think America would be a better place today had Lewis and his friends STFU back in the day, rather than get all uppity and forget their place.)
It is probably better that he didn't go. Even if he wouldn’t say anything racist, according to his niece's book he spent his own father's funeral mostly talking about himself. I don't think it would be possible for him to bring gravitas to anyone's funeral.

I have also joked to my wife that Trump tried to attend Lewis' funeral. He's sitting in a funeral home in Harlem right now wondering where everyone is, because isn't that where those people all hang out?
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Jennifer
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Re: Orange is the new President

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Yeah, no doubt if he DID go to any memorial service for Lewis, he'd just fuck it up and make it all about himself: "John Lewis's death is a sad day for America. SAD! Almost as sad as how Twitter is trying to destroy me!"

But still, I just don't get it. I think back to when I was 10 years old -- I had very bad social skills, more like anti-social skills (TBF, my mom was a shitty role model), things where I full-body cringe to recall now ... but even then, for all my immaturity and cluelessness, I still knew enough to understand things like "When someone dies, even if it's someone you didn't know, don't care about or even outright disliked, you have to at least PRETEND to be sad for a little while." If my fifth-grade arch-nemesis had happened to drop dead the week I had "raise and lower the school flag" duty, 10-year-old me would never have DREAMED of refusing to lower the flag to half-staff if that was the procedure -- not even because "the principal would never let me get away with this" but because "If I don't lower the flag everyone will think I'm being a total jerk. And they'd be right, too."

Or, on the handful of Sundays I did not have to sit through boring church services because it was my turn to help certain grownups babysit the preschoolers in the church nursery, when I was in "babysitter assistant" mode I knew to at least TRY to act "responsible and mature" around the toddlers. Granted, no doubt, many of my attempts at "grown-up maturity" would inspire snickers from actual mature grownups ... but at least I was trying, and knew enough to try. Trump somehow made it to the age of 70-something without ever even knowing enough to try.
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Aresen
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Re: Orange is the new President

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Jennifer wrote:
28 Jul 2020, 19:22
I find it unfathomable ... not so much that he could be so petty about these things, but that he genuinely doesn't understand HOW bad he's making himself look?
I know we're not supposed to 'psychoanalyze' others, but I think that is characteristic of narcisists: They are simply incapable of seeing themselves from the viewpoint of others.
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Jennifer
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Jennifer »

Aresen wrote:
28 Jul 2020, 20:39
Jennifer wrote:
28 Jul 2020, 19:22
I find it unfathomable ... not so much that he could be so petty about these things, but that he genuinely doesn't understand HOW bad he's making himself look?
I know we're not supposed to 'psychoanalyze' others, but I think that is characteristic of narcisists: They are simply incapable of seeing themselves from the viewpoint of others.
Yeah, but most narcissists at least know how to put on an act when necessary (though how long they can maintain that act is another matter). You know how you'll frequently see celebrity-expose stories a la "Despite his kind and friendly facade, behind the scenes he was a nightmare!"? Most narcissists can maintain that facade on their own -- celebrity narcissists who, all by themselves with no scriptwriters, seem warm and friendly in their talk-show appearances, despite how nasty they are to people who interacted with them for real on an everyday basis -- but, again, Trump can't even maintain the facade for a two-minute softball public appearance.
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by lunchstealer »

Jennifer wrote:
28 Jul 2020, 21:12
Aresen wrote:
28 Jul 2020, 20:39
Jennifer wrote:
28 Jul 2020, 19:22
I find it unfathomable ... not so much that he could be so petty about these things, but that he genuinely doesn't understand HOW bad he's making himself look?
I know we're not supposed to 'psychoanalyze' others, but I think that is characteristic of narcisists: They are simply incapable of seeing themselves from the viewpoint of others.
Yeah, but most narcissists at least know how to put on an act when necessary (though how long they can maintain that act is another matter). You know how you'll frequently see celebrity-expose stories a la "Despite his kind and friendly facade, behind the scenes he was a nightmare!"? Most narcissists can maintain that facade on their own -- celebrity narcissists who, all by themselves with no scriptwriters, seem warm and friendly in their talk-show appearances, despite how nasty they are to people who interacted with them for real on an everyday basis -- but, again, Trump can't even maintain the facade for a two-minute softball public appearance.
I think there's person-who-loves-adoration-and-celebrity, and person-with-narcissistic-personality-disorder, and it's the disorder part that separates most people we'd think of as narcissists but who really know how to avoid these kinds of petty bullshit choices and the ones who are legitimately broken and cannot see the value in being a statesman and showing up to say good things about an opponent at their funeral.
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Hugh Akston »

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Aresen
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Aresen »

Hugh Akston wrote:
29 Jul 2020, 12:23
Funny how people prefer straight answers to political spin.
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Shem
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Shem »

lunchstealer wrote:
29 Jul 2020, 11:44
Jennifer wrote:
28 Jul 2020, 21:12
Aresen wrote:
28 Jul 2020, 20:39
Jennifer wrote:
28 Jul 2020, 19:22
I find it unfathomable ... not so much that he could be so petty about these things, but that he genuinely doesn't understand HOW bad he's making himself look?
I know we're not supposed to 'psychoanalyze' others, but I think that is characteristic of narcisists: They are simply incapable of seeing themselves from the viewpoint of others.
Yeah, but most narcissists at least know how to put on an act when necessary (though how long they can maintain that act is another matter). You know how you'll frequently see celebrity-expose stories a la "Despite his kind and friendly facade, behind the scenes he was a nightmare!"? Most narcissists can maintain that facade on their own -- celebrity narcissists who, all by themselves with no scriptwriters, seem warm and friendly in their talk-show appearances, despite how nasty they are to people who interacted with them for real on an everyday basis -- but, again, Trump can't even maintain the facade for a two-minute softball public appearance.
I think there's person-who-loves-adoration-and-celebrity, and person-with-narcissistic-personality-disorder, and it's the disorder part that separates most people we'd think of as narcissists but who really know how to avoid these kinds of petty bullshit choices and the ones who are legitimately broken and cannot see the value in being a statesman and showing up to say good things about an opponent at their funeral.
Practically every famous person has at least some narcissistic qualities to some degree; you simply can't maintain celebrity without at least some of the audacity or greed required to make you figure you warrant the attention. The reason he is especially bad is because for his entire life, he's never faced someone with both the means and willingness to enforce an objective standard of behavior on him and make the results stick. Most people have had at least one person in their life who was able to hold them to an objective standard of behavior to at least enough of a degree that they're capable of understanding such a thing exists, if only to circumvent it. But, the only person who was ever able to exercise control over Trump's behavior was his father, and by all indications, Fred Trump was very much the sort of man whose discipline hinged on how well you obeyed him, no matter what the circumstance was. Any misconduct was dealt with quietly through money, usually a surprisingly small amount. So, Donald got bought out of his fuckups as long as he was doing what dad told him, and it has now created a man who sees obedience as the only virtue or law to govern society. You're either in charge, in which case you don't answer to anyone else so why care, or you're ruled, in which case you do as you're told and don't worry about anything else.

People think Trump is obsequious to Putin because he owes Putin money. I don't agree. I think he'd be like this even if Putin has never given him a dime. Because Putin has the sort of power and authority that pings the place Fred Trump carved out for himself in Donald's brain. Pavlov trained the dogs to salivate, but once they were trained, he wasn't the only one who could make them do it.
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by lunchstealer »

Shem wrote:
29 Jul 2020, 13:27
lunchstealer wrote:
29 Jul 2020, 11:44
Jennifer wrote:
28 Jul 2020, 21:12
Aresen wrote:
28 Jul 2020, 20:39
Jennifer wrote:
28 Jul 2020, 19:22
I find it unfathomable ... not so much that he could be so petty about these things, but that he genuinely doesn't understand HOW bad he's making himself look?
I know we're not supposed to 'psychoanalyze' others, but I think that is characteristic of narcisists: They are simply incapable of seeing themselves from the viewpoint of others.
Yeah, but most narcissists at least know how to put on an act when necessary (though how long they can maintain that act is another matter). You know how you'll frequently see celebrity-expose stories a la "Despite his kind and friendly facade, behind the scenes he was a nightmare!"? Most narcissists can maintain that facade on their own -- celebrity narcissists who, all by themselves with no scriptwriters, seem warm and friendly in their talk-show appearances, despite how nasty they are to people who interacted with them for real on an everyday basis -- but, again, Trump can't even maintain the facade for a two-minute softball public appearance.
I think there's person-who-loves-adoration-and-celebrity, and person-with-narcissistic-personality-disorder, and it's the disorder part that separates most people we'd think of as narcissists but who really know how to avoid these kinds of petty bullshit choices and the ones who are legitimately broken and cannot see the value in being a statesman and showing up to say good things about an opponent at their funeral.
Practically every famous person has at least some narcissistic qualities to some degree; you simply can't maintain celebrity without at least some of the audacity or greed required to make you figure you warrant the attention. The reason he is especially bad is because for his entire life, he's never faced someone with both the means and willingness to enforce an objective standard of behavior on him and make the results stick. Most people have had at least one person in their life who was able to hold them to an objective standard of behavior to at least enough of a degree that they're capable of understanding such a thing exists, if only to circumvent it. But, the only person who was ever able to exercise control over Trump's behavior was his father, and by all indications, Fred Trump was very much the sort of man whose discipline hinged on how well you obeyed him, no matter what the circumstance was. Any misconduct was dealt with quietly through money, usually a surprisingly small amount. So, Donald got bought out of his fuckups as long as he was doing what dad told him, and it has now created a man who sees obedience as the only virtue or law to govern society. You're either in charge, in which case you don't answer to anyone else so why care, or you're ruled, in which case you do as you're told and don't worry about anything else.

People think Trump is obsequious to Putin because he owes Putin money. I don't agree. I think he'd be like this even if Putin has never given him a dime. Because Putin has the sort of power and authority that pings the place Fred Trump carved out for himself in Donald's brain. Pavlov trained the dogs to salivate, but once they were trained, he wasn't the only one who could make them do it.
Yup. His love of Putin is aspirational. Same with Erdogan, MBS, KJU, Xi, etc. They are the kinds of leaders he wants to be. Same reason other presidents get on well with the likes of Tony Blair (Clinton/Bush) or Justin Trudeau for Obama.
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by dhex »

Aresen wrote:
29 Jul 2020, 13:16
Hugh Akston wrote:
29 Jul 2020, 12:23
Funny how people prefer straight answers to political spin.
well fauci and brix have never declared whole swathes of people rapists or referred to their homes as shitholes, so there's that too.
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Eric the .5b »

lunchstealer wrote:
29 Jul 2020, 15:24
Shem wrote:
29 Jul 2020, 13:27
People think Trump is obsequious to Putin because he owes Putin money. I don't agree. I think he'd be like this even if Putin has never given him a dime. Because Putin has the sort of power and authority that pings the place Fred Trump carved out for himself in Donald's brain. Pavlov trained the dogs to salivate, but once they were trained, he wasn't the only one who could make them do it.
Yup. His love of Putin is aspirational. Same with Erdogan, MBS, KJU, Xi, etc. They are the kinds of leaders he wants to be. Same reason other presidents get on well with the likes of Tony Blair (Clinton/Bush) or Justin Trudeau for Obama.
I kinda suspect, back when he was dealing with construction (and thus, organized crime) in NYC, he fawned over figures in the mob the way he now fawns over autocrats.
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Re: Orange is the new President

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Trump sacks TVA chief for outsourcing tech jobs abroad
United States President Donald Trump said Monday that he had fired the chair of the Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA) saying the executive was getting paid too much and was hiring foreign workers.

Trump told reporters at the White House on Monday that he is formally removing the TVA's chair of the board and another member of the board. He also threatened to remove other board members if they keep hiring foreign labour.

The sacking comes as the fragile US labour market recovery shows signs of stalling, with the number of Americans filing for state jobless benefits trending higher for two weeks straight.
I want to curse Trump, but I could see Clinton, Obama, Sanders, or just about every other US politician doing the same thing.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

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Hugh Akston
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Hugh Akston »

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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by lunchstealer »

Aresen wrote:
Yesterday, 23:50
Trump sacks TVA chief for outsourcing tech jobs abroad
United States President Donald Trump said Monday that he had fired the chair of the Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA) saying the executive was getting paid too much and was hiring foreign workers.

Trump told reporters at the White House on Monday that he is formally removing the TVA's chair of the board and another member of the board. He also threatened to remove other board members if they keep hiring foreign labour.

The sacking comes as the fragile US labour market recovery shows signs of stalling, with the number of Americans filing for state jobless benefits trending higher for two weeks straight.
I want to curse Trump, but I could see Clinton, Obama, Sanders, or just about every other US politician doing the same thing.
At the same time, in the back of my mind I'm thinking... yeah all those out of work waitresses and baggage handlers and roadies are totally going to be replacing those H1B workers in the nation's largest hydroelectric power generation and distribution network.
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Re: Orange is the new President

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