Orange is the new President

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Shem
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Shem » 09 Jan 2019, 00:53

Pham Nuwen wrote:
08 Jan 2019, 23:30
Shem wrote:
08 Jan 2019, 22:34
He did kinda look like the bump of Adderall he took before the speech didn't really get him to 100%, though.
Meth. You mean meth.
Nah dawg, Adderall.
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Shem
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Shem » 10 Jan 2019, 13:49

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JasonL
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by JasonL » 10 Jan 2019, 14:05

That's ... something.

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Eric the .5b
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Eric the .5b » 10 Jan 2019, 14:19

The whole TV show meme about this presidency seems wrong to me, in retrospect. This administration is damn weird, but too ugly and malevolent to make a watchable comedy, and also too unimpressive to make good drama. The show wouldn't make it past the primaries...
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
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Jennifer
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Jennifer » 10 Jan 2019, 14:41

Eric the .5b wrote:
10 Jan 2019, 14:19
The whole TV show meme about this presidency seems wrong to me, in retrospect. This administration is damn weird, but too ugly and malevolent to make a watchable comedy,
I dunno -- you ever read Catch-22? Far darker and more malevolent than I remotely expected, the first time I ever read it....
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Aresen
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Aresen » 10 Jan 2019, 15:29

Without remakes, there would be no TV or movies.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 10 Jan 2019, 16:13

Jennifer wrote:
10 Jan 2019, 14:41
Eric the .5b wrote:
10 Jan 2019, 14:19
The whole TV show meme about this presidency seems wrong to me, in retrospect. This administration is damn weird, but too ugly and malevolent to make a watchable comedy,
I dunno -- you ever read Catch-22? Far darker and more malevolent than I remotely expected, the first time I ever read it....
It may be the first novel I read as a teenager that made me laugh out loud repeatedly, which I'm sure also says something about me as a teenager.

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Jennifer
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Jennifer » 10 Jan 2019, 16:32

D.A. Ridgely wrote:
10 Jan 2019, 16:13
Jennifer wrote:
10 Jan 2019, 14:41
Eric the .5b wrote:
10 Jan 2019, 14:19
The whole TV show meme about this presidency seems wrong to me, in retrospect. This administration is damn weird, but too ugly and malevolent to make a watchable comedy,
I dunno -- you ever read Catch-22? Far darker and more malevolent than I remotely expected, the first time I ever read it....
It may be the first novel I read as a teenager that made me laugh out loud repeatedly, which I'm sure also says something about me as a teenager.
It wasn't my first laugh-out-loud novel, but it was definitely one of them. Still, Milo and a few of the others were shockingly horrible people -- fun to read about in a black comedy, sure, but I do NOT want anyone like that around me for real.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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Aresen
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Aresen » 10 Jan 2019, 17:22

Jennifer wrote:
10 Jan 2019, 16:32
D.A. Ridgely wrote:
10 Jan 2019, 16:13
Jennifer wrote:
10 Jan 2019, 14:41
Eric the .5b wrote:
10 Jan 2019, 14:19
The whole TV show meme about this presidency seems wrong to me, in retrospect. This administration is damn weird, but too ugly and malevolent to make a watchable comedy,
I dunno -- you ever read Catch-22? Far darker and more malevolent than I remotely expected, the first time I ever read it....
It may be the first novel I read as a teenager that made me laugh out loud repeatedly, which I'm sure also says something about me as a teenager.
It wasn't my first laugh-out-loud novel, but it was definitely one of them. Still, Milo and a few of the others were shockingly horrible people -- fun to read about in a black comedy, sure, but I do NOT want anyone like that around me for real.
So, what are you doing on a Libertarian website? :P
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

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Eric the .5b
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Eric the .5b » 10 Jan 2019, 18:11

Jennifer wrote:
10 Jan 2019, 14:41
Eric the .5b wrote:
10 Jan 2019, 14:19
The whole TV show meme about this presidency seems wrong to me, in retrospect. This administration is damn weird, but too ugly and malevolent to make a watchable comedy,
I dunno -- you ever read Catch-22? Far darker and more malevolent than I remotely expected, the first time I ever read it....
But could it sustain a TV series, rather than a novel or movie?

I submit that few people would watch a show about this administration if it were fictional.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
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Aresen
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Aresen » 10 Jan 2019, 18:15

Eric the .5b wrote:
10 Jan 2019, 18:11
Jennifer wrote:
10 Jan 2019, 14:41
Eric the .5b wrote:
10 Jan 2019, 14:19
The whole TV show meme about this presidency seems wrong to me, in retrospect. This administration is damn weird, but too ugly and malevolent to make a watchable comedy,
I dunno -- you ever read Catch-22? Far darker and more malevolent than I remotely expected, the first time I ever read it....
But could it sustain a TV series, rather than a novel or movie?

I submit that few people would watch a show about this administration if it were fictional.
If Trump cut the heads off people instead of firing them, I know I'd watch.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

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Jennifer
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Jennifer » 10 Jan 2019, 19:53

Eric the .5b wrote:
10 Jan 2019, 18:11

I submit that few people would watch a show about this administration if it were fictional.
If it were fictional, I think most people's main complaint would be that it's too unrealistic, even for a satire. How many absolutely-true statements about POTUS Trump thus far would've been dismissed as stupidest hyperbole before he took office? "There's going to be a violent Nazi rally, with an anti-racist protester killed by one of them. The president of the United States will refuse to condemn the Nazis, but insist 'both sides' were to blame." Even I find that almost too asinine to believe, and I know it actually fucking happened.
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Eric the .5b » 10 Jan 2019, 20:02

Jennifer wrote:
10 Jan 2019, 19:53
Eric the .5b wrote:
10 Jan 2019, 18:11

I submit that few people would watch a show about this administration if it were fictional.
If it were fictional, I think most people's main complaint would be that it's too unrealistic, even for a satire. How many absolutely-true statements about POTUS Trump thus far would've been dismissed as stupidest hyperbole before he took office? "There's going to be a violent Nazi rally, with an anti-racist protester killed by one of them. The president of the United States will refuse to condemn the Nazis, but insist 'both sides' were to blame." Even I find that almost too asinine to believe, and I know it actually fucking happened.
Possibly. But part of the problem is that there would be this litany of horrifying things, and then nothing in the way of payoff.

Or, put another way: if someone wrote a story where the president played apologist for murderous neo-Nazis, or he had improper help from Russia, etc., or wanted to scapegoat immigrants, that would go somewhere beyond the clumsy actions we've seen. That fictional president would start consolidating power, rounding up anyone who looked brown, leaving NATO right before Russia rolled into every country in Eastern Europe, etc. All the stuff people twitch and expect Trump to do next because they're subconsciously seeing this as a narrative and not just the result of a stupid, sociopathic man born in New Jersey in 1946 being in power.

It's weird, but all the "what fascists do next" stuff people have been breathlessly repeating to us since 2016 hasn't really been any more realistic than birthers going on about Obama intending to impose sharia law and whatever. There's no plan, there's just a dumb, vicious animal reacting.

And that would kill such a show. There'd be no real arc or drama, just meandering and ugliness.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
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thoreau
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by thoreau » 10 Jan 2019, 20:35

Eric the .5b wrote:
10 Jan 2019, 20:02
It's weird, but all the "what fascists do next" stuff people have been breathlessly repeating to us since 2016 hasn't really been any more realistic than birthers going on about Obama intending to impose sharia law and whatever. There's no plan, there's just a dumb, vicious animal reacting.
I go back and forth on this. In many ways, Trump is certainly just the next step in decline, rather than the final step to dystopia.

But I do wonder if the reaction is part of why the Trump administration hasn't been able to do more. Part of the reason, of course, is that Trump is a life-long fuck-up who only got where he is via an enabling father and enabling friends in the media (from National Enquirer to NBC). Then again, lots of illiberal and dangerous leaders have fallen short in prior endeavors. We don't need to go full-Hitler to note that Hugo Chavez failed at his coup attempt in 1992, that Castro failed in his early legal career, etc.

When these guys succeed it's because they attract people who are able to wake up early, keep their team on schedule, manage a budget, etc. I think a lot of decent people looked at the racist blow-hard whipping people up and said "Yeah, I know where this can go. Not gonna help him." Which is why it doesn't go there.

And, of course, lots of media figures, investigators, and former public servants across the spectrum devoted themselves to investigating and critiquing him. Many of them are shameless partisans who were perfectly fine with expanding executive power and perpetrating all sorts of abuses when a more establishment-friendly figure was in charge, so I'm not going to heap too much praise on them. Still, I think some of them probably did say "Yeah, this is too far even for me," and that's part of why it winds up NOT going that far. (Though we still got kids in concentration camps, albeit not on the scale that a more competent strongman could have managed.)
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Eric the .5b » 10 Jan 2019, 20:47

thoreau wrote:
10 Jan 2019, 20:35
Eric the .5b wrote:
10 Jan 2019, 20:02
It's weird, but all the "what fascists do next" stuff people have been breathlessly repeating to us since 2016 hasn't really been any more realistic than birthers going on about Obama intending to impose sharia law and whatever. There's no plan, there's just a dumb, vicious animal reacting.
I go back and forth on this. In many ways, Trump is certainly just the next step in decline, rather than the final step to dystopia....
Those are all good points, but—

1) I'd remind you a lot of well-known broadly-liberal leaders had failed first tries, too. That's not itself incompetence.

2) And on the other hand, If what we hear is true, "the wall" is a campaign focus because his handlers found it was short and simple enough to help him remember that immigration is supposed to be a big issue. And that doesn't seem inconsistent with his actions. Trump is not just incompetent graded on a politician curve, but fucking incompetent.

3) I suspect institutional resistance to him flailing around as clueless racist uncle with no political understanding has been more of a brake on him than people panicking about his incipient fascist plans.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
Cet animal est très méchant / Quand on l'attaque il se défend.

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thoreau
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by thoreau » 10 Jan 2019, 21:01

And I'm saying that institutional resistance might be (part of) the difference between somebody who comes across as a clueless racist uncle once in power, versus somebody who comes across as a fascist with a plan and the means to pull it off.

Give Trump effective handlers and aides, and he might be the guy doing rally after rally while those promises are followed through on by smart subordinates.

tl;dr Liberal and illiberal administrations are institutions, and the big talker at the top only looks as good or bad as his team.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Eric the .5b » 10 Jan 2019, 22:26

thoreau wrote:
10 Jan 2019, 21:01
And I'm saying that institutional resistance might be (part of) the difference between somebody who comes across as a clueless racist uncle once in power, versus somebody who comes across as a fascist with a plan and the means to pull it off.
Well, if you want to frame things as unfalsifiable claims, sure.

I don't see any particular reason to believe your logic, though.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
Cet animal est très méchant / Quand on l'attaque il se défend.

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Shem
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Shem » 11 Jan 2019, 01:07

Eric the .5b wrote:
10 Jan 2019, 20:02
And that would kill such a show. There'd be no real arc or drama, just meandering and ugliness.
Sounds like Seinfeld.
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Mo
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Mo » 11 Jan 2019, 16:29

Interestingly the character is based on Fred

his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Kolohe
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Kolohe » 13 Jan 2019, 23:00


Donald J. Trump
‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump

Best line in the Elizabeth Warren beer catastrophe is, to her husband, “Thank you for being here. I’m glad you’re here” It’s their house, he’s supposed to be there!
I hate that this is a pretty good line.
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by dhex » 14 Jan 2019, 08:58

i kinda feel like warren's been pushed to do all this stuff as a prank so they can get her out of the way. like biden's been catfishing her posing as some big time donor.

"oh yeah definitely get a dna test"
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by JD » 14 Jan 2019, 18:04

Kolohe wrote:
13 Jan 2019, 23:00

Donald J. Trump
‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump

Best line in the Elizabeth Warren beer catastrophe is, to her husband, “Thank you for being here. I’m glad you’re here” It’s their house, he’s supposed to be there!
I hate that this is a pretty good line.
It seems oddly clever and coherent for the realDonaldTrump. Are we sure this wasn't ghostwritten for him?
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Hugh Akston
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Hugh Akston » 14 Jan 2019, 18:33

Do I need to know what this beer catastrophe is to find this amusing?
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Eric the .5b » 14 Jan 2019, 21:02

"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
Cet animal est très méchant / Quand on l'attaque il se défend.

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lunchstealer
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by lunchstealer » 14 Jan 2019, 21:05

Please tell me that's 'shopped.
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