Orange is the new President

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Shem
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Shem » 16 Jul 2018, 17:49

Painboy wrote:
16 Jul 2018, 17:38
Shem wrote:
16 Jul 2018, 16:41
Painboy wrote:
16 Jul 2018, 16:33
This bad even for Trump. It would be one thing to be bland and non-committal but openly supportive of Putin is just bizarre.
Unless of course you've been watching him be openly supportive of Putin literally this entire time, in which case it's just more of exactly what half the people here have been dismissing all along.
Oh I know he has been doing it despite his administrations own policies. At some point I assumed he'd get all blustery again like he usually does when he thinks he has the upper hand in whatever "deal" he has going on in his head.
Never with Putin. Not ever. Which ought to be suspicious, no?
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by thoreau » 16 Jul 2018, 19:26


Ellie wrote:
thoreau wrote:
16 Jul 2018, 16:28
I mean, it may look bad, but that just proves that it isn't what it seems because he's too smart to do anything this bad.
Missing a reference to "skin in the game"; 6/10 for familiar thoreau snark


;)
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Painboy
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Painboy » 16 Jul 2018, 20:57

Shem wrote:
16 Jul 2018, 17:49
Painboy wrote:
16 Jul 2018, 17:38
Shem wrote:
16 Jul 2018, 16:41
Painboy wrote:
16 Jul 2018, 16:33
This bad even for Trump. It would be one thing to be bland and non-committal but openly supportive of Putin is just bizarre.
Unless of course you've been watching him be openly supportive of Putin literally this entire time, in which case it's just more of exactly what half the people here have been dismissing all along.
Oh I know he has been doing it despite his administrations own policies. At some point I assumed he'd get all blustery again like he usually does when he thinks he has the upper hand in whatever "deal" he has going on in his head.
Never with Putin. Not ever. Which ought to be suspicious, no?
If you have a secret conspiracy with someone the last thing you would want to do is show obvious favoritism toward them.

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Orange is the new President

Post by lunchstealer » 16 Jul 2018, 21:15

Painboy wrote:
Shem wrote:
16 Jul 2018, 17:49
Painboy wrote:
16 Jul 2018, 17:38
Shem wrote:
16 Jul 2018, 16:41
Painboy wrote:
16 Jul 2018, 16:33
This bad even for Trump. It would be one thing to be bland and non-committal but openly supportive of Putin is just bizarre.
Unless of course you've been watching him be openly supportive of Putin literally this entire time, in which case it's just more of exactly what half the people here have been dismissing all along.
Oh I know he has been doing it despite his administrations own policies. At some point I assumed he'd get all blustery again like he usually does when he thinks he has the upper hand in whatever "deal" he has going on in his head.
Never with Putin. Not ever. Which ought to be suspicious, no?
If you have a secret conspiracy with someone the last thing you would want to do is show obvious favoritism toward them.
Is this probably criminal?

No?

Then why wouldn’t he show public favoritism? What’s the point in pussyfooting around if no one will hold your feet to the fire as long as you’re unbelievably brazen but also kind of coy in your corruption.
"The constitution is more of a BDSM agreement with a safe word." - Sandy

"Neoliberalism. Austerity. Booga booga!!!!" - JasonL

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Painboy
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Painboy » 16 Jul 2018, 21:18

lunchstealer wrote:
16 Jul 2018, 21:15
Painboy wrote:
Shem wrote:
16 Jul 2018, 17:49
Painboy wrote:
16 Jul 2018, 17:38
Shem wrote:
16 Jul 2018, 16:41
Painboy wrote:
16 Jul 2018, 16:33
This bad even for Trump. It would be one thing to be bland and non-committal but openly supportive of Putin is just bizarre.
Unless of course you've been watching him be openly supportive of Putin literally this entire time, in which case it's just more of exactly what half the people here have been dismissing all along.
Oh I know he has been doing it despite his administrations own policies. At some point I assumed he'd get all blustery again like he usually does when he thinks he has the upper hand in whatever "deal" he has going on in his head.
Never with Putin. Not ever. Which ought to be suspicious, no?
If you have a secret conspiracy with someone the last thing you would want to do is show obvious favoritism toward them.
Is this probably criminal?

No?

Then why wouldn’t he show public favoritism? What’s the point in pussyfooting around if no one will hold your feet to the fire as long as you’re unbelievably brazen but also kind of coy in your corruption.
What would be the point? It only makes things more difficult for him.

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thoreau
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by thoreau » 16 Jul 2018, 21:32

This risks turning into a game of "But if they know that I know that they..." He favors Putin over his own Cabinet, or anyone else not named Ivanka. He knows that Putin helped him. He knows that people in his campaign were working with or seeking help from Russian agents.

At some point the obvious pattern is what it is.

Besides, it's not like he's tried to hide any of his other conflicts of interest or violations of the emoluments clause. Why would he feel like he, the boss, the guy who is still thinking of firing Mueller, the guy who has had a major political party at his back, why would he feel like he needs to go to great lengths to conceal this when he is so brazen about everything else?

It might backfire on him, but it hasn't yet, and he's not exactly know for risk aversion.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
--Shem

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thoreau
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by thoreau » 16 Jul 2018, 22:04

As far as crimes, I doubt that sucking Putin's cock is a crime. I wouldn't be shocked, however, if he was a knowing participant in campaign finance shenanigans with Russian donors.

And he's almost certainly laundered money for Russians.

Impeach for collusion with a foreign dictator, obstruction of justice (firing Comey), and gross dereliction of duty in supervising the Russian-linked people whom he appointed to high-level jobs. Then prosecute for whatever money laundering they have evidence of.

And enjoy two boring years of Mike Pence.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
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thoreau
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by thoreau » 16 Jul 2018, 23:53

"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
--Shem

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Mo
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Mo » 17 Jul 2018, 08:52

Shem wrote:
16 Jul 2018, 16:41
Painboy wrote:
16 Jul 2018, 16:33
This bad even for Trump. It would be one thing to be bland and non-committal but openly supportive of Putin is just bizarre.
Unless of course you've been watching him be openly supportive of Putin literally this entire time, in which case it's just more of exactly what half the people here have been dismissing all along.
This was a good take why some people finally flipped. It was one thing for him to say it alone, where he's in a relative position of strength. Next to Putin, he looked like a weak, scared animal.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Warren » 17 Jul 2018, 08:59

Mo wrote:
17 Jul 2018, 08:52
Shem wrote:
16 Jul 2018, 16:41
Painboy wrote:
16 Jul 2018, 16:33
This bad even for Trump. It would be one thing to be bland and non-committal but openly supportive of Putin is just bizarre.
Unless of course you've been watching him be openly supportive of Putin literally this entire time, in which case it's just more of exactly what half the people here have been dismissing all along.
This was a good take why some people finally flipped. It was one thing for him to say it alone, where he's in a relative position of strength. Next to Putin, he looked like a weak, scared animal.
Yeah but "assault on America"? Please stop.
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Ellie » 17 Jul 2018, 13:10

Maybe it's just because I already hated Trump so much, but I am a little baffled by all the outrage over his comments. Like, yeah, he's a bloated flaccid windbag who cares only for himself. He doesn't believe in justice or truth or democracy or America or anything like that. He only cares about himself, and about things and people that make him look good or bring him more success. If something isn't done the way he'd do it, then it's a worthless thing to do. He likes Putin, so Putin is great, and anyone who doesn't like Putin is the problem, even if that's all of America. He likes winning elections, so it's awesome if Russia got involved in an election because he won the election so it must be awesome.

He doesn't ever see himself being in a relative position of strength or weakness. He's always in a position of strength, and if you think he's weak then you're wrong and dumb and also should stop talking and be eliminated somehow, probably.

I just ... I don't know. I'm not saying anybody shouldn't be reacting the way they are. But when I heard his comments I was like "ehh, what else is new" and then it seemed like the whole internet collectively clutched their pearls and left me going, "Okay, what did I miss?"
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Mo » 17 Jul 2018, 13:14

Haha. Fuck you Whirlpool. Congrats on getting your wish.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/whirlpool- ... 1531757621
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by lunchstealer » 17 Jul 2018, 13:17

Goddamnit, WSJ seems to have gotten google to turn off the cached option for their articles.
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by thoreau » 17 Jul 2018, 13:20

Ellie wrote:Maybe it's just because I already hated Trump so much, but I am a little baffled by all the outrage over his comments. Like, yeah, he's a bloated flaccid windbag who cares only for himself. He doesn't believe in justice or truth or democracy or America or anything like that. He only cares about himself, and about things and people that make him look good or bring him more success. If something isn't done the way he'd do it, then it's a worthless thing to do. He likes Putin, so Putin is great, and anyone who doesn't like Putin is the problem, even if that's all of America. He likes winning elections, so it's awesome if Russia got involved in an election because he won the election so it must be awesome.

He doesn't ever see himself being in a relative position of strength or weakness. He's always in a position of strength, and if you think he's weak then you're wrong and dumb and also should stop talking and be eliminated somehow, probably.

I just ... I don't know. I'm not saying anybody shouldn't be reacting the way they are. But when I heard his comments I was like "ehh, what else is new" and then it seemed like the whole internet collectively clutched their pearls and left me going, "Okay, what did I miss?"
The Russia scandal has been a long chain of revelations, none of them particularly visual and many of them plausibly having innocent explanations if taken out of context.

Yesterday we got to see the two main characters together, at once, with our own eyes, acting in concert. Just a few days after some damning revelations of obviously coordinated activity.

It now feels real for people who weren't paying attention before.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
--Shem

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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Ellie » 17 Jul 2018, 13:24

It seems like I've seen a lot of pearl-clutching from Trump haters, though. Unless I'm just noticing that more because it's on the brain, when really it's just one in an endless series of their pearl clutches for the week.
"NB stands for nota bene do not @ me" - nicole

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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by nicole » 17 Jul 2018, 13:34

Ellie wrote:
17 Jul 2018, 13:24
It seems like I've seen a lot of pearl-clutching from Trump haters, though. Unless I'm just noticing that more because it's on the brain, when really it's just one in an endless series of their pearl clutches for the week.
I think it's because actually experiencing things like that press conference is so insane. I assume you didn't watch it; watching and listening to Trump in contexts like that is a trip at the best of times, but seeing him do it alongside Putin, and then also hearing Putin speak, when he sounds like a much better, next-level Trump, was awful.

I mean, it's stuff like the press conference that I actually really, really hate about Trump. Like the rallies where he goes off on "not even wrong" rants about General Pershing dipping bullets in pigs' blood. He spews this set of nonsense talking points, debunked conspiracy theories, and tangential tidbits, and there's this world of deplorables out there operating on the same level, and everyone else just like...wtffffffff. I mean, you can't talk to them, you can't deal with them, they're fucking crazy.
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Aresen » 17 Jul 2018, 14:30

Mo wrote:
17 Jul 2018, 13:14
Haha. Fuck you Whirlpool. Congrats on getting your wish.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/whirlpool- ... 1531757621
Paywalled, even with the incognito window.
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Kwix » 17 Jul 2018, 14:32

Aresen wrote:
17 Jul 2018, 14:30
Mo wrote:
17 Jul 2018, 13:14
Haha. Fuck you Whirlpool. Congrats on getting your wish.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/whirlpool- ... 1531757621
Paywalled, even with the incognito window.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Whirlpo ... er+Tariffs.
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Aresen » 17 Jul 2018, 14:34

Ellie wrote:
17 Jul 2018, 13:24
It seems like I've seen a lot of pearl-clutching from Trump haters, though. Unless I'm just noticing that more because it's on the brain, when really it's just one in an endless series of their pearl clutches for the week.
I detest Trump, but as I said at the beginning of this go-round of Agent Orange, the fact that the POTUS actually blamed his own country for bad US - Russia relations just before going into a meeting with Putin was what blew my gasket. (And I'm not even USASIAN.)
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Aresen » 17 Jul 2018, 15:02

Image
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Painboy » 17 Jul 2018, 15:04

Aresen wrote:
17 Jul 2018, 14:30
Mo wrote:
17 Jul 2018, 13:14
Haha. Fuck you Whirlpool. Congrats on getting your wish.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/whirlpool- ... 1531757621
Paywalled, even with the incognito window.
Here's a copy of it minus the charts and photos.

Whirlpool Wanted Washer Tariffs. It Wasn’t Ready for a Trade Showdown.
Trade barriers can ricochet through an economy in ways even proponents don’t expect, as shown by washers, among the first consumer products targeted by the Trump administration

By Andrew Tangel and Josh Zumbrun
July 16, 2018 12:13 p.m. ET

CLYDE, Ohio—After the Trump administration announced new tariffs on imported washing machines in January, Marc Bitzer, the chief executive of Whirlpool Corp., celebrated his win over South Korean competitors LG Electronics Inc. 066570 3.14% and Samsung Electronics Co.
“This is, without any doubt, a positive catalyst for Whirlpool,” he said on an investor conference call.
Nearly six months later, the company’s share price is down 15%. One factor is a separate set of tariffs on steel and aluminum, imposed by the U.S. in March and later expanded, that helped drive up Whirlpool’s raw-materials costs. Net income, even with the added benefit of a lower tax bill, was down $64 million in the first quarter compared with a year earlier.

Workers assembled top-loading washing machines at the Whirlpool plant in Clyde, Ohio, in August. Photo: Elaine Cromie for The Wall Street Journal
In his next call with investors, in April, Mr. Bitzer struck a cautious tone. “There continues to be uncertainty regarding potential future tariffs and trade actions,” he said. “We’ll continue to monitor, evaluate and take the right action for our business.”

Put into practice, tariffs are a complex economic weapon that can ricochet through an economy in ways even proponents don’t expect. That’s what happened with washing machines, which were among the first consumer products targeted by the Trump administration.
In the months since washing machine tariffs took effect in February, LG and Samsung have pressed on with investments in the U.S., given that they now face the higher cost of shipping goods in from abroad. The overseas companies and Whirlpool have also increased hiring in the U.S. But appliance prices have risen for consumers, and there are signs of waning demand.

How Will Allies Respond to Trump’s Tariffs?

Will President Donald Trump's decision to impose tariffs on steel and aluminum for the EU and others cause U.S. allies to retaliate? The Wall Street Journal's Gerald F. Seib explains. Photo: Getty
Whirlpool had campaigned for protection from what it called unfair foreign competition. Things became more complicated as the trade conflict spread beyond its industry.
“Raw-material costs have risen substantially,” Mr. Bitzer said on the April investor call, primarily blaming steel and aluminum tariffs. Most of the 200-pound weight of a washing machine is in its steel and aluminum parts.
A spokeswoman at the Benton Harbor, Mich., company declined to answer more detailed questions about the tariffs’ effects, saying Whirlpool needed to remain silent before it announces second-quarter earnings in late July. She declined to make Mr. Bitzer or other executives available for comment.
The administration has imposed tariffs on $92 billion of imports including washers, solar panels, steel, aluminum and a range of goods imported from China. U.S. trading partners, including the European Union, Canada, Mexico and China, retaliated in like sums.

President Donald Trump has threatened to broaden tariffs to an additional $200 billion in goods sold to the U.S. from China, including thousands of product categories that would hit consumers directly, such as bicycles, vacuum cleaners and baseball gloves. He has also said he might pursue tariffs on imported cars.

Mr. Trump says he is tackling rivals’ unfair practices, and some advisers say tariffs are leverage to push U.S. trading partners to lower their own barriers. Most economists, meanwhile, say they do more harm than good.

The White House didn’t respond to requests for comment. An official with the U.S. Trade Representative, the lead agency for the tariffs, said doing nothing about washing machine imports could have driven American manufacturers out of business, leaving thousands unemployed.
Last year, Whirlpool sought protection from South Korean competition under a provision known as the safeguard law, which required the company to establish it suffered serious injury from surging imports. The law, or section 201 of the 1974 trade act, was previously invoked in 2002 when then-President George W. Bush moved to protect steelmakers.

The resulting tariffs apply a 20% duty on the first 1.2 million washing machines brought into the country each year, and a 50% duty on quantities above that threshold. The barriers are expected to remain in place for at least three years.
The U.S. imported 4.2 million large residential washers in 2017, for a monthly average of 350,000, according to Christopher Rogers, an analyst at Panjiva, a firm that tracks global trade data. This year, imports have fallen to an average of 161,000 each month through April.

Washer and dryer prices climbed 20% in the three months through June, the steepest rise in at least 12 years, according to Labor Department estimates.
LG cited washer tariffs when it announced it was raising prices in January. Electrolux ELUXY 2.13% cited tariffs on steel, aluminum and Chinese imports but not those on washers. Whirlpool called its price increase “cost-based” due to raw-material, labor and innovation expenses.
“We have repeatedly stated that this tariff is a tax on every washing machine buyer in the U.S.,” a Samsung spokesman said. “Since the tariff was implemented, U.S. consumers have paid more for their washing machines across all brands.”

Only about 3.7% of the average appliance sale is profit, according to market research firm IBISWorld, leaving little room to absorb new tariffs or increased costs without raising prices. Components, such as steel, make up over half the cost of an average appliance. Labor covers an additional 10%.

Further U.S. tariffs on Chinese imports could put even more upward pressure on prices than the steel and aluminum tariffs, said Dylan Miller, an appliance industry analyst for IBISWorld. Home appliances are increasingly technologically sophisticated, making them dependent on chips and electronic components, often imported from China.
“It’s already a highly globalized industry,” said Mr. Miller. “Operators are going to have to worry about, ‘Oh, where do we get semiconductors, circuit boards?’ ”
Prices have risen for the least-expensive washing machines, according to research by financial-data-analysis firm Thinknum for The Wall Street Journal. Whirlpool’s least-expensive model among a group tracked by Thinknum jumped from an average price of $329 in January to $429 in June. Samsung’s rose from $494 to $582, while LG’s rose from $629 to $703. Price increases at the lower end are most likely to be felt by consumers.

Bill Anders, 61 years old, a retired educator in Churubusco, Ind., decided in April to use his tax refund money to replace some appliances. The price for the washer and dryer combo he preferred, manufactured by LG and sold by Sears, was about $2,478 including installation. It was so much he decided to forgo buying other appliances.
“We looked at stoves and dishwashers, too, but with the money we had in hand, so to speak, we just decided to do the washer and dryer,” he said.
We Want to Hear From You
Is your business affected by tariffs? Tell us how.
Ryan Smith, of Smith’s Appliances outside of Kansas City, an appliance repair business, said higher prices have helped his business of keeping old machines churning. In the past, when washing machine repairs cost more than $200 people skipped repairs and bought new machines. “Now we are doing more expensive repairs such as tub bearings, gear cases and control boards, pushing $300 to $500,” he said.
Sales have been underperforming other product categories, following strong sales earlier this year before the tariffs kicked in, said Phil Hannon, vice president at retailer Abt Electronics in the Chicago suburb of Glenview. “They’re not rushing out there to replace their laundry [appliances] at these pricing levels,” he said.
Washer shipments, a proxy for sales, to U.S. dealers dropped 18% in May compared with the previous year, the steepest monthly decline since March 2012, according to data compiled by the Association of Home Appliance Manufacturers, a trade group. Analysts said shipments likely dropped because dealers had stocked up on washers before prices rose. LG blamed post-tariff price increases, too, a spokesman for the manufacturer said.

Home Depot Inc. said it hadn’t seen any impact from the tariffs on sales of washing machines. Some members of the Retail Industry Leaders Association reported a sales decrease in April, a spokeswoman for the trade group said.
With import competition restrained, Whirlpool anticipated more business for its Clyde, Ohio, washer plant and added 200 positions to its payroll to gear up. Business there appears to have slowed in the past few months. Whirlpool paused operations at the Clyde facility for a few days each around the Memorial Day and Fourth of July holidays, according to workers, suppliers and Scott Black, the town’s mayor.
Such periodic “down days” are typical when inventory builds, Mr. Black said. Workers typically take unpaid days off or vacation during such pauses.
Steve Cummins, vice president at Mansfield Engineered Components Inc. in Ohio, a Whirlpool supplier whose products include counterbalances for washer-door hinges, said he has seen an uptick in demand from Whirlpool. Green Bay Packaging Inc., which supplies corrugated boxes for finished Whirlpool washers, said an initial uptick in business has faded.
“Volume is down overall for the year driven by the last three months,” said Bryan Hollenbach, executive vice president at Green Bay Packaging.

In January, Joe Liotine, Whirlpool’s president for North America, told the U.S. Trade Representative’s office the manufacturer could add a third shift at the Clyde factory and hire more than 1,300 workers. Whirlpool workers, contacted in Clyde in early July, said much of the factory’s production wasn’t running on all three shifts.
Whirlpool also told trade regulators that tariffs would help make way for capital investments in the Clyde factory. Mr. Black, who went on a recent tour of the facility, said much of the plant was under construction, including a new museum, labs and training facilities. Workers said Whirlpool has been adding equipment in preparation for a new line of washers.
Whirlpool in recent years had sought and won conventional tariffs aimed at what it called unfair dumping, or selling below cost in the U.S., by LG and Samsung. The South Korean companies, which denied they broke trade rules, avoided those trade barriers by shifting production, first to China, then to Thailand and Vietnam.

Washing machine production at the Samsung plant in Newberry, S.C., in March. Photo: Sean Rayford/Associated Press
Amid the continuing tariff threats, both LG and Samsung decided to build washer plants in the U.S. LG’s plant in Clarksville, Tenn., is slated to open in the fourth quarter and initially employ about 600 workers. “My mandate is to get it done as soon as possible,” said Paul Bradford, who is overseeing construction.
An LG spokesman said the manufacturer began exploring a possible U.S. factory in 2010 and that the tariff threat spurred the company to speed up construction. A USTR official said the tariffs encouraged both firms to move ahead with their U.S. production plans.
Samsung started producing washers in January at a retrofitted plant formerly run by Caterpillar Inc. in South Carolina. With more than 600 workers, it was churning out more than 1,000 washers a day as of this spring, said Tony Fraley, who oversaw the factory’s rapid renovation for Samsung before leaving the company. Samsung didn’t respond to a request for comment about the production rate.
People familiar with the matter said Mr. Trump’s election influenced Samsung’s decision to produce in South Carolina.

Construction of the LG factory in Clarksville, Tenn., in June. Photo: Kyle Dean Reinford for The Wall Street Journal
Samsung said it hired many laid-off former Caterpillar workers. The unemployment rate in Newberry County, the site of the plant, dropped to 2.6% in May from 3.5% in the same month a year earlier. Foster Senn, mayor of the city of Newberry, said developers are contemplating building a new hotel and subdivision.
In Clyde, some employees at Whirlpool and one nearby supplier said the tariffs are working. “If not for that, Whirlpool wouldn’t have been able to hire,” said Matthew Morton, 42, who works for a supplier and has a son who works at the washer factory.
Some Whirlpool workers said recent production stoppages have fueled questions about the outlook. “Everything is now thrown back into a flux,” said Mr. Black, the mayor, himself a former Whirlpool employee. His wife, children and other relatives work at the plant. “People’s anxiety level is higher because nobody knows what’s going on.”
Write to Andrew Tangel at Andrew.Tangel@wsj.com and Josh Zumbrun at Josh.Zumbrun@wsj.com
Appeared in the July 17, 2018, print edition as 'From Washer Tariffs to Trade Showdown.'

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nicole
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by nicole » 17 Jul 2018, 15:13

It's all good, guys, Trump misspoke yesterday. He meant to say there was no reason it would NOT have been Russia! (But also, it may have been someone else, because there are a lot of people out there.)
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lunchstealer
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by lunchstealer » 17 Jul 2018, 15:24

This one feels different, because it's just so undeniably unjustifiable as anything other than Trump supporting Russia because they supported him, and him not giving two shits that that support was straight up hostile espionage ops aimed explicitly at undermining American and more general Western-style democracy.

Sure, "Maybe Russia could find Hillary's missing emails," can be excused as a joke if taken on its own, but now we've seen months of mounting evidence that no really Russia did put a lot of work into assets who were in Trump's campaign and that they were undeniably behind the cyber attacks during the election. And he caps it off by standing next to KGB lieutenant colonel Putin and saying, "Well he said it's not them, so I should give that exactly the same weight as extensive, carefully sourced reports from the people who are supposed to protect us."

And now the unfair witchhunt is totally unfair and witch hunty, but there's no reason it would not have been Russia but it still was probably someone else and it didn't happen anyway.
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Jennifer
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Jennifer » 17 Jul 2018, 15:35

lunchstealer wrote:
17 Jul 2018, 15:24
This one feels different, because it's just so undeniably unjustifiable as anything other than Trump supporting Russia because they supported him, and him not giving two shits that that support was straight up hostile espionage ops aimed explicitly at undermining American and more general Western-style democracy.
It feels different, but given how thoroughly craven the Republicans have proven themselves to be regarding Trump thus far, I will be amazed if this leads to anything more than "We are outraged and/or disappointed. Now, let us move on and forget about it."
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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Jennifer
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Joined: 28 Apr 2010, 14:03

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Jennifer » 17 Jul 2018, 15:40

Jennifer wrote:
17 Jul 2018, 15:35
lunchstealer wrote:
17 Jul 2018, 15:24
This one feels different, because it's just so undeniably unjustifiable as anything other than Trump supporting Russia because they supported him, and him not giving two shits that that support was straight up hostile espionage ops aimed explicitly at undermining American and more general Western-style democracy.
It feels different, but given how thoroughly craven the Republicans have proven themselves to be regarding Trump thus far, I will be amazed if this leads to anything more than "We are outraged and/or disappointed. Now, let us move on and forget about it."
Oh, for fuck's sake. I swear, I wrote that BEFORE seeing what Pence the Veep had to say:
Our @POTUS is now on his way home from a historic trip to Europe. And the truth is, over the last week, the world saw once again that President Trump stands without apology as the leader of the free world.
So, I was wrong. No outrage, no disappointment.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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