Orange is the new President

User avatar
Aresen
Posts: 14347
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 20:18
Location: Great White Pacific Northwest

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Aresen » 12 Jun 2018, 19:56

Shem wrote:
12 Jun 2018, 19:09
Aresen wrote:
12 Jun 2018, 18:10
Shem wrote:
12 Jun 2018, 18:01
The noises about the end of the military exercises (they're not actually going to end them, there's no constituency anywhere in DC for that. That was just Trump mimicking the last person he talked to) happened because of the summit, and Moon Jae-in's idiotic and baffling belief that Trump could be deployed as a tool without costing more than his benefit provided.

For all that the world scoffs about how little we know of them, it's sometimes darkly amusing to see just how foolhardy their assessments of us are.
Trump said it. He said no more military exercises:

US to suspend military exercises with South Korea, Trump says
Yeah, so? He also said trans people would be banned from the military. And that NATO was obsolete. And that we will withdraw from Syria. And enough other half-cocked lunacy to make listening to what he says pointless unless the rest of the government backs it up.
Um. Just what is General Brooks going to do if the CinC says 'no joint military exercises with South Korea'?
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

User avatar
Shem
Posts: 7126
Joined: 27 Apr 2010, 00:27

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Shem » 12 Jun 2018, 20:06

Aresen wrote:
12 Jun 2018, 19:56
Shem wrote:
12 Jun 2018, 19:09
Aresen wrote:
12 Jun 2018, 18:10
Shem wrote:
12 Jun 2018, 18:01
The noises about the end of the military exercises (they're not actually going to end them, there's no constituency anywhere in DC for that. That was just Trump mimicking the last person he talked to) happened because of the summit, and Moon Jae-in's idiotic and baffling belief that Trump could be deployed as a tool without costing more than his benefit provided.

For all that the world scoffs about how little we know of them, it's sometimes darkly amusing to see just how foolhardy their assessments of us are.
Trump said it. He said no more military exercises:

US to suspend military exercises with South Korea, Trump says
Yeah, so? He also said trans people would be banned from the military. And that NATO was obsolete. And that we will withdraw from Syria. And enough other half-cocked lunacy to make listening to what he says pointless unless the rest of the government backs it up.
Um. Just what is General Brooks going to do if the CinC says 'no joint military exercises with South Korea'?
What's Mattis supposed to do if the CnC says no transgender people in the military? Or "pull us out of Syria?" Hem and haw and wait for him to go back in what he says, just like he always does. Taking Trump at his word is for suckers. When the bureaucracy moves, I'll believe it's going to happen. Not before.
"VOTE SHEMOCRACY! You will only have to do it once!" -Loyalty Officer Aresen

User avatar
Aresen
Posts: 14347
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 20:18
Location: Great White Pacific Northwest

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Aresen » 12 Jun 2018, 20:20

Shem wrote:
12 Jun 2018, 20:06
Aresen wrote:
12 Jun 2018, 19:56
Shem wrote:
12 Jun 2018, 19:09
Aresen wrote:
12 Jun 2018, 18:10
Shem wrote:
12 Jun 2018, 18:01
The noises about the end of the military exercises (they're not actually going to end them, there's no constituency anywhere in DC for that. That was just Trump mimicking the last person he talked to) happened because of the summit, and Moon Jae-in's idiotic and baffling belief that Trump could be deployed as a tool without costing more than his benefit provided.

For all that the world scoffs about how little we know of them, it's sometimes darkly amusing to see just how foolhardy their assessments of us are.
Trump said it. He said no more military exercises:

US to suspend military exercises with South Korea, Trump says
Yeah, so? He also said trans people would be banned from the military. And that NATO was obsolete. And that we will withdraw from Syria. And enough other half-cocked lunacy to make listening to what he says pointless unless the rest of the government backs it up.
Um. Just what is General Brooks going to do if the CinC says 'no joint military exercises with South Korea'?
What's Mattis supposed to do if there CnC says no transgender people in the military? Or "pull us out of Syria?" Hem and haw and wait for him to go back in what he says, just like he always does. Taking Trump at his word is for suckers. When the bureaucracy moves, I'll believe it's going to happen. Not before.
That's not the point, Shem. Brooks cannot go ahead with a military exercise unless and until the POTUS actually does go back on his word. When Trump does change his mind - which I fully expect - Brooks can go ahead. Until then, he is disobeying his CinC.

Until Trump changes his mind, Kim Jong Un can claim whatever he likes inside North Korea. He can portray himself as the 'Fearless Leader' who got the US to 'cease provocations.'

When Trump does change his mind - which I fully expect after the next minion whispers in his ear - Kim can point to the turnaround as evidence that the US is a dishonest and untrustworthy aggressor.

It's a win-win for North Korea.

My personal POV is that ending military exercises and withdrawing US troops should have been done a long time ago. Trump has made it into a 'bargaining chip' for a worthless piece of paper.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

User avatar
Painboy
Posts: 3649
Joined: 18 Feb 2013, 11:33
Location: Seattle

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Painboy » 12 Jun 2018, 20:32

It should be well established now that Trump just likes to spontaneously say stuff because he thinks it sounds good to him (often much to the surprise of his own administration). We'll have to wait to see what actually happens later.

Also I wouldn't put too much into a missed joint exercise. We've been doing this for over 50 years now. It's not like both countries are new at this. Ultimately the South Koreans really only need our nukes as a deterrent these days. Their army is in far better shape than the Norks and would very likely win any actual one on one confrontation.

User avatar
Eric the .5b
Posts: 12220
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 16:29

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Eric the .5b » 12 Jun 2018, 20:43

Painboy wrote:
12 Jun 2018, 20:32
It should be well established now that Trump just likes to spontaneously say stuff because he thinks it sounds good to him (often much to the surprise of his own administration). We'll have to wait to see what actually happens later.
He does seem to base everything he does on media, and that's how pretty much every sympathetic fictional president in movies works—shooting from the hip and freaking out his advisers.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
"Cyberpunk never really gave the government enough credit for their ability to secure a favorable prenup during the Corporate-State wedding." - Shem

User avatar
Shem
Posts: 7126
Joined: 27 Apr 2010, 00:27

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Shem » 12 Jun 2018, 20:49

Aresen wrote:
12 Jun 2018, 20:20
That's not the point, Shem. Brooks cannot go ahead with a military exercise unless and until the POTUS actually does go back on his word. When Trump does change his mind - which I fully expect - Brooks can go ahead. Until then, he is disobeying his CinC.

Until Trump changes his mind, Kim Jong Un can claim whatever he likes inside North Korea. He can portray himself as the 'Fearless Leader' who got the US to 'cease provocations.'

When Trump does change his mind - which I fully expect after the next minion whispers in his ear - Kim can point to the turnaround as evidence that the US is a dishonest and untrustworthy aggressor.

It's a win-win for North Korea.

My personal POV is that ending military exercises and withdrawing US troops should have been done a long time ago. Trump has made it into a 'bargaining chip' for a worthless piece of paper.
I agree it's a win-win for NK. I don't agree that anything is going to change, even in the most immediate term. Pence has already said it's not going to change day-to-day training exercises, meaning they're already walking it back.
"VOTE SHEMOCRACY! You will only have to do it once!" -Loyalty Officer Aresen

User avatar
thoreau
Posts: 26126
Joined: 06 May 2010, 12:56
Location: Back to the lab again

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by thoreau » 12 Jun 2018, 20:56

Aresen wrote:
12 Jun 2018, 20:20
That's not the point, Shem. Brooks cannot go ahead with a military exercise unless and until the POTUS actually does go back on his word.
Based on reporting in the NYT, it's not actually clear that Trump has given the order. Yes, he said on TV that it will happen, but the military obeys precise, verified orders received through official channels, not tweets and press reports. Otherwise, even a sane President would be unable to have constructive debates with advisors. Anytime a President said in a conversation "No, I won't do that" there'd be no way to offer alternative analysis. Yes, he has authority, but unless he makes clear that his statement was a final decision I assume that there are ways for people to push back in conversations with a sane President, rather than rushing back to base to start doing stuff as soon as a wish comes forth from a President's mouth.

And with Trump, I assume that many senior leaders have said "No matter what you hear from him, you take no action until I verify that this is an official, final order."

So until Trump gives a precise instruction, and confirms that it's an order, I doubt anybody will stop anything. Maybe they'll talk a bit more cautiously about their planned actions, but until they get a confirmed order I doubt anything will actually end.

Also, this bit from the NYT article gets me:
Mr. Trump singled out long-range bombers, like B-52s and B-1s, that routinely fly in exercises near the Korean Peninsula.

“We fly in bombers from Guam,” Mr. Trump said. “I said it when I first started, I said, ‘Where do the bombers come from? Guam. Nearby.’ I said ‘Oh great, nearby, where is nearby?’ Six and a half hours. Six and a half hours. That’s a long time for these big massive planes to be flying to South Korea to practice and then drop bombs all over the place and then go back to Guam.”

“I know a lot about airplanes,” Mr. Trump added. “It’s very expensive. I didn’t like it. What I did say is and I think it is very provocative.”
Um, does he understand the wisdom of basing part of the war plan on assets that are kept far away, so it's harder for the enemy to hit?

Wait, no, never mind, he doesn't understand anything.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
--Shem

User avatar
Aresen
Posts: 14347
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 20:18
Location: Great White Pacific Northwest

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Aresen » 12 Jun 2018, 21:12

Eric the .5b wrote:
12 Jun 2018, 20:43
Painboy wrote:
12 Jun 2018, 20:32
It should be well established now that Trump just likes to spontaneously say stuff because he thinks it sounds good to him (often much to the surprise of his own administration). We'll have to wait to see what actually happens later.
He does seem to base everything he does on media, and that's how pretty much every sympathetic fictional president in movies works—shooting from the hip and freaking out his advisers.
In the movies and TV, the POTUS 'shooting from the hip' immediately causes the bad guys to fold or crushes their evil plans. IRL, not so much.

OTOH, I would love to have seen the look on John Bolton's face when Trump made the statement.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

User avatar
Kolohe
Posts: 13365
Joined: 06 May 2010, 10:51

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Kolohe » 12 Jun 2018, 21:13

It reminds me of that scene in a Few Good Men, when Nicholson says "Hey corporal, get me the President on the phone. We're abandoning our position in Cuba." "Yes, Sir."
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

User avatar
Warren
Posts: 24233
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:03
Location: Goat Rope MO
Contact:

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Warren » 12 Jun 2018, 21:15

Aresen wrote:
12 Jun 2018, 21:12
Eric the .5b wrote:
12 Jun 2018, 20:43
Painboy wrote:
12 Jun 2018, 20:32
It should be well established now that Trump just likes to spontaneously say stuff because he thinks it sounds good to him (often much to the surprise of his own administration). We'll have to wait to see what actually happens later.
He does seem to base everything he does on media, and that's how pretty much every sympathetic fictional president in movies works—shooting from the hip and freaking out his advisers.
In the movies and TV, the POTUS 'shooting from the hip' immediately causes the bad guys to fold or crushes their evil plans. IRL, not so much.

OTOH, I would love to have seen the look on John Bolton's face when Trump made the statement.
Larry Kudlow had a heart attack if that's any consolation.
THIS SPACE FOR RENT

User avatar
Eric the .5b
Posts: 12220
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 16:29

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Eric the .5b » 12 Jun 2018, 21:20

Aresen wrote:
12 Jun 2018, 21:12
Eric the .5b wrote:
12 Jun 2018, 20:43
Painboy wrote:
12 Jun 2018, 20:32
It should be well established now that Trump just likes to spontaneously say stuff because he thinks it sounds good to him (often much to the surprise of his own administration). We'll have to wait to see what actually happens later.
He does seem to base everything he does on media, and that's how pretty much every sympathetic fictional president in movies works—shooting from the hip and freaking out his advisers.
In the movies and TV, the POTUS 'shooting from the hip' immediately causes the bad guys to fold or crushes their evil plans. IRL, not so much.
Kinda my point.

I'd also throw in TV media like The West Wing and cite Ellie's quote on the show.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
"Cyberpunk never really gave the government enough credit for their ability to secure a favorable prenup during the Corporate-State wedding." - Shem

User avatar
Shem
Posts: 7126
Joined: 27 Apr 2010, 00:27

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Shem » 12 Jun 2018, 22:51


North Korean State media says Trump agreed to lift sanctions.


So either it happened, in which case he offered to give away the house for nothing, or it didn't happen, and the North Koreans are already lying about the content of the meeting. Either way, this whole pageant was just as idiotic as everyone expected.
"VOTE SHEMOCRACY! You will only have to do it once!" -Loyalty Officer Aresen

User avatar
thoreau
Posts: 26126
Joined: 06 May 2010, 12:56
Location: Back to the lab again

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by thoreau » 12 Jun 2018, 22:56

Wait, why would North Korean state media treat sanctions as a bad thing? I thought that under their Juche ideal they are wholly self-sufficient and achieving economic miracles that the rest of the world envies? Why would they care if they can't trade with us when they already have the good stuff?
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
--Shem

User avatar
Aresen
Posts: 14347
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 20:18
Location: Great White Pacific Northwest

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Aresen » 12 Jun 2018, 23:16

thoreau wrote:
12 Jun 2018, 22:56
Wait, why would North Korean state media treat sanctions as a bad thing? I thought that under their Juche ideal they are wholly self-sufficient and achieving economic miracles that the rest of the world envies? Why would they care if they can't trade with us when they already have the good stuff?
I believe Trump got Juche from them.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

User avatar
Aresen
Posts: 14347
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 20:18
Location: Great White Pacific Northwest

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Aresen » 12 Jun 2018, 23:18

Shem wrote:
12 Jun 2018, 22:51

North Korean State media says Trump agreed to lift sanctions.


So either it happened, in which case he offered to give away the house for nothing, or it didn't happen, and the North Koreans are already lying about the content of the meeting. Either way, this whole pageant was just as idiotic as everyone expected.
Who needs Comedy Central?
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

User avatar
Mo
Posts: 22826
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:08

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Mo » 12 Jun 2018, 23:38

Painboy wrote:
12 Jun 2018, 20:32
Their army is in far better shape than the Norks and would very likely win any actual one on one confrontation.
Except they would win in the same way that one wins a knife fight.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

User avatar
Mo
Posts: 22826
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:08

Orange is the new President

Post by Mo » 13 Jun 2018, 20:05

EDD65800-AA2D-448A-9EBC-5622C4A21B25-3863-0000028825AFA183.jpeg
Life comes at you pretty slowly.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

User avatar
lunchstealer
Posts: 15890
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:25
Location: The Local Fluff in the Local Bubble

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by lunchstealer » 13 Jun 2018, 23:07

Mo wrote:
13 Jun 2018, 20:05
EDD65800-AA2D-448A-9EBC-5622C4A21B25-3863-0000028825AFA183.jpeg

Life comes at you pretty slowly.
I dasn't geddit.
"The constitution is more of a BDSM agreement with a safe word." - Sandy

"Neoliberalism. Austerity. Booga booga!!!!" - JasonL

"We can't confirm rumors that Lynndie England is in the running to be Gina Haspel's personal aide." - DAR

User avatar
Mo
Posts: 22826
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:08

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Mo » 13 Jun 2018, 23:15

Image didn’t come over.

his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

User avatar
lunchstealer
Posts: 15890
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:25
Location: The Local Fluff in the Local Bubble

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by lunchstealer » 14 Jun 2018, 01:00

Ah okay. Apparently my paranoia about being unhip led me to think that was an actual running gag that I didn't get.
"The constitution is more of a BDSM agreement with a safe word." - Sandy

"Neoliberalism. Austerity. Booga booga!!!!" - JasonL

"We can't confirm rumors that Lynndie England is in the running to be Gina Haspel's personal aide." - DAR

User avatar
D.A. Ridgely
Posts: 17886
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:09
Location: The Other Side

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 14 Jun 2018, 02:20

Kolohe wrote:
12 Jun 2018, 21:13
It reminds me of that scene in a Few Good Men, when Nicholson says "Hey corporal, get me the President on the phone. We're abandoning our position in Cuba." "Yes, Sir."
This.

What bothers me is that the same guy who wrote that line wrote The West Wing, too, and that I'd actually be happy if Aaron Sorkin was the President right now even if he was still using drugs as much as he was then.

User avatar
JD
Posts: 10259
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:26

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by JD » 14 Jun 2018, 10:14

This is some Orwellian shit:
According to MSNBC reporter Jacob Soboroff, who live-tweeted about his tour of the [Texas shelter housing child immigrants who have been separated from their parents at the U.S.-Mexico border], visitors are almost immediately greeted by a massive Trump mural featuring a quote that reads, “Sometimes by losing a battle you find a new way to win the war.”
"Millennials are lazy. They'd rather have avocado toast than cave in a man's skull with a tire iron!" -FFF

User avatar
dhex
Posts: 15360
Joined: 05 May 2010, 16:05
Location: 'murica

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by dhex » 14 Jun 2018, 10:46

that mural is fucking insane
"I do wear my New Balance tennis shoes when I'm wearing cargo shorts, though, because truth in advertising." - lunch

User avatar
Warren
Posts: 24233
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:03
Location: Goat Rope MO
Contact:

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Warren » 14 Jun 2018, 11:49

Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends...

Today's episode: Fecal Flinging & Philanthropy
THIS SPACE FOR RENT

User avatar
Mo
Posts: 22826
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:08

Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Mo » 14 Jun 2018, 14:35

Oh, but the Trumps are dumb enough to make it stick.

his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests