Calling 2020 for Entropy

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Jennifer
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by Jennifer » 09 Nov 2016, 12:34

Warren wrote:
Taktix® wrote:Radley just shared another gut-punch, although this time it's a normal news gut punch as opposed to the usual, unique Radley gut-punch:

Meet Trump's Cabinet-in-waiting

Fucking John Bolton for Sec of State. :roll:
See this is just more of the Trump Train that doesn't scare me. HRCs* cabinet would have scared me because she'd have put together a team of seasoned veterans in beltway politics dedicated to the pursuit of power. Trump's team is like the posse that falls out of a clown car.
So ... you're saying former UN Ambassador John Bolton, who previously held sundry positions in the Reagan and first-Bush administrations, is not a beltway veteran dedicated to the pursuit of power? What do you think he pursued over the course of his career -- puppy hugs and unicorn kisses?
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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Painboy
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by Painboy » 09 Nov 2016, 12:49

Jennifer wrote:
Warren wrote:
Taktix® wrote:Radley just shared another gut-punch, although this time it's a normal news gut punch as opposed to the usual, unique Radley gut-punch:

Meet Trump's Cabinet-in-waiting

Fucking John Bolton for Sec of State. :roll:
See this is just more of the Trump Train that doesn't scare me. HRCs* cabinet would have scared me because she'd have put together a team of seasoned veterans in beltway politics dedicated to the pursuit of power. Trump's team is like the posse that falls out of a clown car.
So ... you're saying former UN Ambassador John Bolton, who previously held sundry positions in the Reagan and first-Bush administrations, is not a beltway veteran dedicated to the pursuit of power? What do you think he pursued over the course of his career -- puppy hugs and unicorn kisses?
So again, what's the big difference between Trump's cabinet selections and previous office holders' selections?

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Jennifer
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by Jennifer » 09 Nov 2016, 12:59

Painboy wrote:
Jennifer wrote:
Warren wrote:
Taktix® wrote:Radley just shared another gut-punch, although this time it's a normal news gut punch as opposed to the usual, unique Radley gut-punch:

Meet Trump's Cabinet-in-waiting

Fucking John Bolton for Sec of State. :roll:
See this is just more of the Trump Train that doesn't scare me. HRCs* cabinet would have scared me because she'd have put together a team of seasoned veterans in beltway politics dedicated to the pursuit of power. Trump's team is like the posse that falls out of a clown car.
So ... you're saying former UN Ambassador John Bolton, who previously held sundry positions in the Reagan and first-Bush administrations, is not a beltway veteran dedicated to the pursuit of power? What do you think he pursued over the course of his career -- puppy hugs and unicorn kisses?
So again, what's the big difference between Trump's cabinet selections and previous office holders' selections?
Assuming we take the candidates at their word, Clinton's cabinet probably would not have focused on such things as "round 'em up and deport 'em all," "to hell with any international treaties we've signed," and "Despite what G.W. Bush said in the immediate aftermath of 9/11, we are, in fact, at war with 'Islam,' as opposed to a tiny handful of murderous extremists committing acts of terror in the name of Islam." Also, I doubt Clinton would've made her selections while thinking "If a native-born American citizen has parents from Mexico, that citizen's ancestry means he is not trustworthy enough to hold a federal judgeship or any other power position."
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by Sandy » 09 Nov 2016, 13:19

Jennifer wrote:Assuming we take the candidates at their word
Ha. Good one.
Hindu is the cricket of religions. You can observe it for years, you can have enthusiasts try to explain it to you, and it's still baffling. - Warren

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Jennifer
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by Jennifer » 09 Nov 2016, 13:21

Sandy wrote:
Jennifer wrote:Assuming we take the candidates at their word
Ha. Good one.
Is it any more naive than assuming "Surely Trump didn't mean all those terrible things he said?" My rule for judging political promises is, if they promise to do something good it probably won't happen, but if they promise to do something bad it probably will.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by Kolohe » 09 Nov 2016, 13:31

Jennifer wrote:
Warren wrote:
Taktix® wrote:Radley just shared another gut-punch, although this time it's a normal news gut punch as opposed to the usual, unique Radley gut-punch:

Meet Trump's Cabinet-in-waiting

Fucking John Bolton for Sec of State. :roll:
See this is just more of the Trump Train that doesn't scare me. HRCs* cabinet would have scared me because she'd have put together a team of seasoned veterans in beltway politics dedicated to the pursuit of power. Trump's team is like the posse that falls out of a clown car.
So ... you're saying former UN Ambassador John Bolton, who previously held sundry positions in the Reagan and first-Bush administrations, is not a beltway veteran dedicated to the pursuit of power? What do you think he pursued over the course of his career -- puppy hugs and unicorn kisses?
He wasn't enough to get confirmation to an ambassador job in 2005 when Bush was freshly re-elected and Republicans controlled the Senate by more than they ever had in Bush's two terms.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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Jennifer
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by Jennifer » 09 Nov 2016, 13:34

Kolohe wrote:
Jennifer wrote:
Warren wrote:
Taktix® wrote:Radley just shared another gut-punch, although this time it's a normal news gut punch as opposed to the usual, unique Radley gut-punch:

Meet Trump's Cabinet-in-waiting

Fucking John Bolton for Sec of State. :roll:
See this is just more of the Trump Train that doesn't scare me. HRCs* cabinet would have scared me because she'd have put together a team of seasoned veterans in beltway politics dedicated to the pursuit of power. Trump's team is like the posse that falls out of a clown car.
So ... you're saying former UN Ambassador John Bolton, who previously held sundry positions in the Reagan and first-Bush administrations, is not a beltway veteran dedicated to the pursuit of power? What do you think he pursued over the course of his career -- puppy hugs and unicorn kisses?
He wasn't enough to get confirmation to an ambassador job in 2005 when Bush was freshly re-elected and Republicans controlled the Senate by more than they ever had in Bush's two terms.
I am not suggesting Bolton is some sort of political savant; I'm simply pointing out the flaw in Warren's suggestion "Well, at least Trump will avoid people who have political experience and are dedicated to the pursuit of power."
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by Painboy » 09 Nov 2016, 13:37

Jennifer wrote:
Painboy wrote:
Jennifer wrote:
Warren wrote:
Taktix® wrote:Radley just shared another gut-punch, although this time it's a normal news gut punch as opposed to the usual, unique Radley gut-punch:

Meet Trump's Cabinet-in-waiting

Fucking John Bolton for Sec of State. :roll:
See this is just more of the Trump Train that doesn't scare me. HRCs* cabinet would have scared me because she'd have put together a team of seasoned veterans in beltway politics dedicated to the pursuit of power. Trump's team is like the posse that falls out of a clown car.
So ... you're saying former UN Ambassador John Bolton, who previously held sundry positions in the Reagan and first-Bush administrations, is not a beltway veteran dedicated to the pursuit of power? What do you think he pursued over the course of his career -- puppy hugs and unicorn kisses?
So again, what's the big difference between Trump's cabinet selections and previous office holders' selections?
Assuming we take the candidates at their word, Clinton's cabinet probably would not have focused on such things as "round 'em up and deport 'em all," "to hell with any international treaties we've signed," and "Despite what G.W. Bush said in the immediate aftermath of 9/11, we are, in fact, at war with 'Islam,' as opposed to a tiny handful of murderous extremists committing acts of terror in the name of Islam." Also, I doubt Clinton would've made her selections while thinking "If a native-born American citizen has parents from Mexico, that citizen's ancestry means he is not trustworthy enough to hold a federal judgeship or any other power position."
So Trump is going to give positions out to those who agree with his stated platform like every president before him. I fail to see how this in some way would make his appointments exceptional. Is anyone surprised by this? Were there some other expectations? How are they not qualified?

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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by Kolohe » 09 Nov 2016, 13:40

Jennifer wrote:
Kolohe wrote:
Jennifer wrote:
Warren wrote:
Taktix® wrote:Radley just shared another gut-punch, although this time it's a normal news gut punch as opposed to the usual, unique Radley gut-punch:

Meet Trump's Cabinet-in-waiting

Fucking John Bolton for Sec of State. :roll:
See this is just more of the Trump Train that doesn't scare me. HRCs* cabinet would have scared me because she'd have put together a team of seasoned veterans in beltway politics dedicated to the pursuit of power. Trump's team is like the posse that falls out of a clown car.
So ... you're saying former UN Ambassador John Bolton, who previously held sundry positions in the Reagan and first-Bush administrations, is not a beltway veteran dedicated to the pursuit of power? What do you think he pursued over the course of his career -- puppy hugs and unicorn kisses?
He wasn't enough to get confirmation to an ambassador job in 2005 when Bush was freshly re-elected and Republicans controlled the Senate by more than they ever had in Bush's two terms.
I am not suggesting Bolton is some sort of political savant; I'm simply pointing out the flaw in Warren's suggestion "Well, at least Trump will avoid people who have political experience and are dedicated to the pursuit of power."
The people listed in the Politico piece for Trump's cabinet are all people with political experience and dedicated to the pursuit of power - and have had spectacular, and what people used to think career ending failures to those ends.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by Sandy » 09 Nov 2016, 13:43

Jennifer wrote:
Sandy wrote:
Jennifer wrote:Assuming we take the candidates at their word
Ha. Good one.
Is it any more naive than assuming "Surely Trump didn't mean all those terrible things he said?" My rule for judging political promises is, if they promise to do something good it probably won't happen, but if they promise to do something bad it probably will.
Yeah, but you followed the above with something good from Hilldawg.

I remember when I believed Obama might rein in our foreign policy and torture.

Welp, I'm 8 years older now and I don't believe shit like that. And Hillary gives you even less reason to believe it than Obama.

Trump is also known for lying, so...yeah.
Hindu is the cricket of religions. You can observe it for years, you can have enthusiasts try to explain it to you, and it's still baffling. - Warren

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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by Jennifer » 09 Nov 2016, 13:48

Sandy wrote:
Jennifer wrote:
Sandy wrote:
Jennifer wrote:Assuming we take the candidates at their word
Ha. Good one.
Is it any more naive than assuming "Surely Trump didn't mean all those terrible things he said?" My rule for judging political promises is, if they promise to do something good it probably won't happen, but if they promise to do something bad it probably will.
Yeah, but you followed the above with something good from Hilldawg.
I followed it with "Here are bad things Trump has said he'll do, but Clinton has not" -- quite different from "Here's good things Clinton promised to do, but now, boo hoo, she won't get to do them."
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by Kolohe » 09 Nov 2016, 14:16

people that are talking up Michelle Obama for president, some of them in 2020(!) clearly haven't learned a dang thing.

(these people are in the comments sections of liberal blogs, so to be fair I am nutpicking a bit)
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by Taktix® » 09 Nov 2016, 14:54

Oh Jesus Christ. Can't a guy enjoy a visceral reaction for one friggin day?!?

Yes, in the end, I'm sure Trump's picks won't be any better or worse than anyone else's, but I'd like to hate them a little today, because I've hated Trump long before this year. I hate reality television, I hate arrogant womanizing trust fund babies that never have to face real life consequences, and I hated Trump the moment I found out he was one, shortly after learning his name, way back in the late 80's or 90's sometime, and then I hated him even more for becoming a reality TV star. I hated the moment my brother brought a Trump doll to a company meeting so he could press the "You're Fired" button for some cheap laughs. I am going to hate having to defend the couple of small-government principles that Trump co-opted and claims to represent (but really only talked about just to get elected), and I will hate having to explain away the taint he will put on said principles. I hate his froggy smarmy face. I hate his douchebag kids. I hate the concept of Trophy wives, and how his marriages are like a step-and-a-half away from mail-ordering brides/human trafficking.

But right now, I also hate the slime that surrounds him, the few "Rebuplicans" who abandoned the one or two things that were decent about the GOP to follow this orange-hued pigman because it was the only avenue to power left to them -- people so nakedly lusting for raw power that they were willing to trade anything redeemable about themselves in exchange for a seat at Trump's sycophant kiddie table. And what I hate most of all is that they were successful.

So tomorrow we can discuss from a place of logic and reason. Let me have my day...
"Guilty as charged. Go ahead and ban me from the mall." - Ellie

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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by Mo » 09 Nov 2016, 15:19

Kolohe wrote:
Jennifer wrote:
Kolohe wrote:
Jennifer wrote:
Warren wrote:
Taktix® wrote:Radley just shared another gut-punch, although this time it's a normal news gut punch as opposed to the usual, unique Radley gut-punch:

Meet Trump's Cabinet-in-waiting

Fucking John Bolton for Sec of State. :roll:
See this is just more of the Trump Train that doesn't scare me. HRCs* cabinet would have scared me because she'd have put together a team of seasoned veterans in beltway politics dedicated to the pursuit of power. Trump's team is like the posse that falls out of a clown car.
So ... you're saying former UN Ambassador John Bolton, who previously held sundry positions in the Reagan and first-Bush administrations, is not a beltway veteran dedicated to the pursuit of power? What do you think he pursued over the course of his career -- puppy hugs and unicorn kisses?
He wasn't enough to get confirmation to an ambassador job in 2005 when Bush was freshly re-elected and Republicans controlled the Senate by more than they ever had in Bush's two terms.
I am not suggesting Bolton is some sort of political savant; I'm simply pointing out the flaw in Warren's suggestion "Well, at least Trump will avoid people who have political experience and are dedicated to the pursuit of power."
The people listed in the Politico piece for Trump's cabinet are all people with political experience and dedicated to the pursuit of power - and have had spectacular, and what people used to think career ending failures to those ends.
Yes, the primary critique of Trump's picks is that he's filling out his cabinet with C-list talent. It's remarkably similar to how he cast Celebrity Apprentice.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by Jennifer » 09 Nov 2016, 15:28

Mo wrote:Yes, the primary critique of Trump's picks is that he's filling out his cabinet with C-list talent. It's remarkably similar to how he cast Celebrity Apprentice.
After Bush v. Gore, a lot of people took comfort in the thought that Bush II would likely be another innocuous one-term president, nothing too good but nothing too bad either, and that might've been how his administration played out ... if not for 9/11.

If the next four years have nothing particularly important happen, that's okay. But if a President Trump and his C-list sycophants have to handle an actual national emergency ... yikes.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by Painboy » 09 Nov 2016, 15:39

Mo wrote: Yes, the primary critique of Trump's picks is that he's filling out his cabinet with C-list talent. It's remarkably similar to how he cast Celebrity Apprentice.
I don't recall previous administrations having A-list talent (not sure what that even means). They seemed to have the same sycophants as anyone else.

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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by Sandy » 09 Nov 2016, 16:04

Bush had some reasonably seasoned people, and Cheney wasn't always an insane dictator by proxy, either. But then 2001-2009 happened.
Hindu is the cricket of religions. You can observe it for years, you can have enthusiasts try to explain it to you, and it's still baffling. - Warren

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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by Mo » 09 Nov 2016, 16:15

Painboy wrote:
Mo wrote: Yes, the primary critique of Trump's picks is that he's filling out his cabinet with C-list talent. It's remarkably similar to how he cast Celebrity Apprentice.
I don't recall previous administrations having A-list talent (not sure what that even means). They seemed to have the same sycophants as anyone else.
What Sandy said, Powell, Rice Cheney, and Rumsfeld were top level talent for their positions. They had numerous faults, but they knew the rules of the road and managed things reasonably well. Hank Paulson did an outstanding job with the hand he had drawn in the financial crisis. Yeah, there are occasional jokers chosen for political reasons, but for the most part they're the talented folks. If the talented folks fuck up as much and as bigly as they do, imagine what it's like for the guy who is chosen purely based on yes man qualities. For example, compare Dana Perino or Tony Snow to Katrina Pierson.

I specifically chose Republican examples to show a contrast of folks drawn from the same talent pool.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by Painboy » 09 Nov 2016, 16:42

Mo wrote:
Painboy wrote:
Mo wrote: Yes, the primary critique of Trump's picks is that he's filling out his cabinet with C-list talent. It's remarkably similar to how he cast Celebrity Apprentice.
I don't recall previous administrations having A-list talent (not sure what that even means). They seemed to have the same sycophants as anyone else.
What Sandy said, Powell, Rice Cheney, and Rumsfeld were top level talent for their positions. They had numerous faults, but they knew the rules of the road and managed things reasonably well. Hank Paulson did an outstanding job with the hand he had drawn in the financial crisis. Yeah, there are occasional jokers chosen for political reasons, but for the most part they're the talented folks. If the talented folks fuck up as much and as bigly as they do, imagine what it's like for the guy who is chosen purely based on yes man qualities. For example, compare Dana Perino or Tony Snow to Katrina Pierson.

I specifically chose Republican examples to show a contrast of folks drawn from the same talent pool.
Fair enough. I don't know enough about who's who to argue that. But wouldn't a poor cabinet selection make Trump's policies less likely to happen? I seem to remember Bill Clinton's first cabinet being pretty poor and most of them were replaced within the first two years of his election.

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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by Mo » 09 Nov 2016, 20:49

Looks like I was being optimistic when I said C-list talent.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Rachel
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by Rachel » 10 Nov 2016, 13:00

Has anyone brought up Trump's health? My friend and I were discussing this last night. He doesn't look too healthy to me.

But he's probably a two term-er.

And I don't think the Democrats to come out en masse in 2018, because as we have seen in this election, Democrats are slow learners, but it's possible.
No lie I'm fucking tired of glorified false histories-JasonL

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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by Aresen » 10 Nov 2016, 13:18

Rachel wrote:Has anyone brought up Trump's health? My friend and I were discussing this last night. He doesn't look too healthy to me.

But he's probably a two term-er.

And I don't think the Democrats to come out en masse in 2018, because as we have seen in this election, Democrats are slow learners, but it's possible.
I do not want Trump to have any health issues while in office. (Other than acute shingles.) However, as someone else noticed on another thread, he is a 70 year old Type A with a poor diet. Pence could easily be #46 before 2020.

I think he is a one-termer because the people who supported him are going to soon find out he has no idea how to 'make America great again.' If he starts a trade war (possible), he may trigger a big recession. If he starts a shooting war in Syria or Iran, every body bag is going to cost him votes.

OTOH, Team Blue has to capture a lot of statehouses between now and 2020 if they don't want to be gerrymandered into a minority for the next 14 years.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by Eric the .5b » 10 Nov 2016, 13:28

I'm not as kind on the subject as Aresen. I will accept Sudden Onset Mega-Gout if it keeps him out of office.
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by Aresen » 10 Nov 2016, 13:41

Eric the .5b wrote:I'm not as kind on the subject as Aresen. I will accept Sudden Onset Mega-Gout if it keeps him out of office.
How about Sudden Mega Oonset Diarrhoea?

;)
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

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Eric the .5b
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by Eric the .5b » 10 Nov 2016, 13:43

Aresen wrote:
Eric the .5b wrote:I'm not as kind on the subject as Aresen. I will accept Sudden Onset Mega-Gout if it keeps him out of office.
How about Sudden Mega Oonset Diarrhoea?

;)
Oh, even better, but I'm under-bidding.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
"Cyberpunk never really gave the government enough credit for their ability to secure a favorable prenup during the Corporate-State wedding." - Shem

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