Calling 2020 for Entropy

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Pham Nuwen
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by Pham Nuwen »

thoreau wrote: 21 Nov 2020, 19:19 The Trumpistanis are holding a rally at an intersection in my neighborhood. While stopped at a red light I rolled down my window and told them to go back to Russia.
You showed them.
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Jennifer
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by Jennifer »

Here in Georgia, things have been more insane than usual: the two GOP senators have nagged the GOP Sec of State to resign, solely because said SoS keeps insisting Biden won the state fair and square. (At least once, post-election, he also said that Trump likely WOULD have won the state, had he not urged his supporters to forgo mail-in or absentee voting.)

So apparently, at least some Georgian MAGAts on Parler are threatening to sit out the upcoming senatorial runoff election, to punish the state GOP for giving the state to Biden.

https://www.newsweek.com/georgia-trump- ... fs-1549245
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Aresen
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by Aresen »

Jennifer wrote: 21 Nov 2020, 20:31 Here in Georgia, things have been more insane than usual: the two GOP senators have nagged the GOP Sec of State to resign, solely because said SoS keeps insisting Biden won the state fair and square. (At least once, post-election, he also said that Trump likely WOULD have won the state, had he not urged his supporters to forgo mail-in or absentee voting.)

So apparently, at least some Georgian MAGAts on Parler are threatening to sit out the upcoming senatorial runoff election, to punish the state GOP for giving the state to Biden.

https://www.newsweek.com/georgia-trump- ... fs-1549245
Let it be said that, as libertarians, we support the right of any individual to take action (or in this case, refuse to take action) in a way that does not infringe the rights of others.
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thoreau
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by thoreau »

I would add that we support their right to take the medical advice that Trump gave in that famous April press conference.
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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

Mmmm... I'd kinda like one of Georgia's senators to be on Team Red.
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thoreau
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

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D.A. Ridgely wrote: 21 Nov 2020, 20:39 Mmmm... I'd kinda like one of Georgia's senators to be on Team Red.
For all the virtues of divided government, I think the GOP needs a purge right now. They need to learn a lesson of loss.

If they'd been slaughtered in House and state races, I'd be OK with them keeping 51 Senate seats to check Biden. But they weren't slaughtered. So they need to keep getting kicked in the teeth.
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

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Team thoreau. Especially wrt McConnell.
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Shem
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

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D.A. Ridgely wrote: 21 Nov 2020, 20:39 Mmmm... I'd kinda like one of Georgia's senators to be on Team Red.
With McConnell in charge of the Senate, that would mean literally nothing getting done until 2022 at least. This is the guy who wouldn't even let a wildly popular Covid relief bill that was supported by the leader of his party come to a vote, even though it might well have enabled his party to hold the Presidency. Since all the relief from before is about to run out, that'd essentially mean years to recover from this recession.
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

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Perhaps there is some aspect of US election law that I don't get, but I think the Team Blue fury at Emily Murphy is misplaced.

Yes, Ms. Murphy is supposed to sign the letter authorizing release of the transition funds to the Biden team once he has been declared the President-Elect. However, AFAICT, Ms. Murphy has no legal right to make that determination. Essentially, someone else has to tell her that Joe Biden will be the next POTUS. The incumbent president may concede or otherwise tell her to sign the letter or she has to wait until the Electoral College votes are certified on January 6th. All the pundits, media reports, or other third parties have no legal standing to do so.

So the pundits need to back off and focus on the real problem, which is Trump himself. Comparing Ms. Murphy to a Nazi Party functionary, as Ann Applebaum does in the linked article, is not only unproductive, it is demanding that a bureaucrat exceed their authority and act on their own initiative outside of their legal mandate.
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

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Aresen wrote: 23 Nov 2020, 14:41 Perhaps there is some aspect of US election law that I don't get, but I think the Team Blue fury at Emily Murphy is misplaced.

Yes, Ms. Murphy is supposed to sign the letter authorizing release of the transition funds to the Biden team once he has been declared the President-Elect. However, AFAICT, Ms. Murphy has no legal right to make that determination. Essentially, someone else has to tell her that Joe Biden will be the next POTUS. The incumbent president may concede or otherwise tell her to sign the letter or she has to wait until the Electoral College votes are certified on January 6th. All the pundits, media reports, or other third parties have no legal standing to do so.

So the pundits need to back off and focus on the real problem, which is Trump himself. Comparing Ms. Murphy to a Nazi Party functionary, as Ann Applebaum does in the linked article, is not only unproductive, it is demanding that a bureaucrat exceed their authority and act on their own initiative outside of their legal mandate.
Legally speaking, this is wrong. The statute gives the GSA the authority to ascertain the apparent winner of the election and unlock transition funds.

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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

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Jadagul wrote: 23 Nov 2020, 15:51
Aresen wrote: 23 Nov 2020, 14:41 Perhaps there is some aspect of US election law that I don't get, but I think the Team Blue fury at Emily Murphy is misplaced.

Yes, Ms. Murphy is supposed to sign the letter authorizing release of the transition funds to the Biden team once he has been declared the President-Elect. However, AFAICT, Ms. Murphy has no legal right to make that determination. Essentially, someone else has to tell her that Joe Biden will be the next POTUS. The incumbent president may concede or otherwise tell her to sign the letter or she has to wait until the Electoral College votes are certified on January 6th. All the pundits, media reports, or other third parties have no legal standing to do so.

So the pundits need to back off and focus on the real problem, which is Trump himself. Comparing Ms. Murphy to a Nazi Party functionary, as Ann Applebaum does in the linked article, is not only unproductive, it is demanding that a bureaucrat exceed their authority and act on their own initiative outside of their legal mandate.
Legally speaking, this is wrong. The statute gives the GSA the authority to ascertain the apparent winner of the election and unlock transition funds.

OK. That's the piece I was missing. I assumed there had to be some outside determination that was provided. TBS, I'm not particularly fond of such power being delegated to a bureaucrat. What happens in 2024 if Pence and Harris are tied at 270? Or if the GOP denies Trump the nomination in 2024, but he runs as an independent and no candidate is even close to 270?
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Hugh Akston
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by Hugh Akston »

Aresen wrote: 23 Nov 2020, 16:22 OK. That's the piece I was missing. I assumed there had to be some outside determination that was provided. TBS, I'm not particularly fond of such power being delegated to a bureaucrat. What happens in 2024 if Pence and Harris are tied at 270? Or if the GOP denies Trump the nomination in 2024, but he runs as an independent and no candidate is even close to 270?
In cases where the outcome is disputed, the GSA administrator can wait until the electors are certified, but in clear-cut outcomes, they can just go ahead without waiting. That's why this kind of discretion is usually fine. But it depends on everyone acting in good faith.
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Shem
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by Shem »

Aresen wrote: 23 Nov 2020, 16:22
Jadagul wrote: 23 Nov 2020, 15:51
Aresen wrote: 23 Nov 2020, 14:41 Perhaps there is some aspect of US election law that I don't get, but I think the Team Blue fury at Emily Murphy is misplaced.

Yes, Ms. Murphy is supposed to sign the letter authorizing release of the transition funds to the Biden team once he has been declared the President-Elect. However, AFAICT, Ms. Murphy has no legal right to make that determination. Essentially, someone else has to tell her that Joe Biden will be the next POTUS. The incumbent president may concede or otherwise tell her to sign the letter or she has to wait until the Electoral College votes are certified on January 6th. All the pundits, media reports, or other third parties have no legal standing to do so.

So the pundits need to back off and focus on the real problem, which is Trump himself. Comparing Ms. Murphy to a Nazi Party functionary, as Ann Applebaum does in the linked article, is not only unproductive, it is demanding that a bureaucrat exceed their authority and act on their own initiative outside of their legal mandate.
Legally speaking, this is wrong. The statute gives the GSA the authority to ascertain the apparent winner of the election and unlock transition funds.

OK. That's the piece I was missing. I assumed there had to be some outside determination that was provided. TBS, I'm not particularly fond of such power being delegated to a bureaucrat. What happens in 2024 if Pence and Harris are tied at 270? Or if the GOP denies Trump the nomination in 2024, but he runs as an independent and no candidate is even close to 270?
The statute actually sets out examples of what would constitute suitable evidence of someone's status as President-elect. Many of which Biden has already met, and which a disputed candidate wouldn't.
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

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Hugh Akston wrote: 23 Nov 2020, 16:27
Aresen wrote: 23 Nov 2020, 16:22 OK. That's the piece I was missing. I assumed there had to be some outside determination that was provided. TBS, I'm not particularly fond of such power being delegated to a bureaucrat. What happens in 2024 if Pence and Harris are tied at 270? Or if the GOP denies Trump the nomination in 2024, but he runs as an independent and no candidate is even close to 270?
In cases where the outcome is disputed, the GSA administrator can wait until the electors are certified, but in clear-cut outcomes, they can just go ahead without waiting. That's why this kind of discretion is usually fine. But it depends on everyone acting in good faith.
Yeah, like, the GSA doesn't have authority to determine who _wins_. Regardless of what the GSA does, the electoral college will vote and then Biden will be elected president.

The point is to allow funds and transition supplies to start acting before the electoral college votes. Because it's generally clear who will be president a month before the electoral college votes, and you'd like to support them beginning the transition immediately.

(In 2000, the assessment wasn't made until early December, I think, because things were actually unclear. The 9/11 commission report thinks that is partially why the incoming administration missed the signs of the attack: the transition was delayed a month and therefore much less smooth than it could have been.)
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

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2020 has been a real shit ice cream show.
Wisconsin election observers in Milwaukee were given wristbands bearing the poop emoji Tuesday during the fifth day of watching the recount requested by President Trump’s campaign.
..
Milwaukee County Clerk George Christenson told reporters that he didn't understand the controversy surrounding the wristband Tuesday.

"I always thought it was chocolate ice cream, personally," he said.
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watc ... wristbands
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

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I have to say "we hit Dow 30,000 but Trump had to lose for it to happen" has to have involved some money-paw wish shit somewhere.
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

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Shem wrote: 24 Nov 2020, 17:12 I have to say "we hit Dow 30,000 but Trump had to lose for it to happen" has to have involved some money-paw wish shit somewhere.
I think it was more relief at the situation being resolved than anything else.

TBS, the present stock market feels like 1999 all over again. ETA: I wish Mo would drop by to put in his 2¢.
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

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I really didn't think the GOP was stupid enough to try this:

Trump Allies Call for Nixing Certification, Picking Electors After 'Compromised' Pennsylvania Election
A new resolution proposed by Pennsylvania House Republicans calls for state leaders to withdraw certification of the presidential election results and appoint electoral college delegates.

The resolution, posted on Friday, was signed by 26 representatives "declaring the results of statewide electoral contests in the 2020 General Election to be in dispute," despite Pennsylvania Secretary of State Kathy Boockvar's Tuesday certification of the results, signed by Governor Tom Wolf, confirming President-elect Joe Biden as the winner. A similar resolution was signed by four GOP state senators.

Republicans control both the state Senate and House of Representatives, but leaders for each have said they had no plans to overturn the results and award the Keystone State's 20 electoral votes to President Donald Trump. The resolution called for Congress "to declare the selection of presidential electors in this Commonwealth to be in dispute."
That's 1/4 of the Pennsylvania House Republicans.
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by thoreau »

Is this the part where Nebula summons 2014 Thanos and we have another big fight?

Goddamnit.
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

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No, this is the part where a minority of the lower house of a state legislature can't even pass a non-binding resolution in a chamber their party controls to prevent the casting of electoral votes that the other side doesn't even need. This is about as far from an apocalyptic final battle as you can get. I really hope that when Pfizer's covid vaccine hits the market they include a few doses of generic sildenafil in the care package for these knobs, because they clearly need it.
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

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Hugh Akston wrote: 28 Nov 2020, 21:34 No, this is the part where a minority of the lower house of a state legislature can't even pass a non-binding resolution in a chamber their party controls to prevent the casting of electoral votes that the other side doesn't even need. This is about as far from an apocalyptic final battle as you can get. I really hope that when Pfizer's covid vaccine hits the market they include a few doses of generic sildenafil in the care package for these knobs, because they clearly need it.
The GOP majority leaders in both the Pennsylvania House and Senate have already said they are not going to pass any such motion, so I doubt this has any chance. What shocks me is that 26 members of the PA House and 4 members PA Senate have signed on for this. People in those positions are not supposed to be fringe nutjobs.
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

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Aresen wrote: 28 Nov 2020, 22:20
Hugh Akston wrote: 28 Nov 2020, 21:34 No, this is the part where a minority of the lower house of a state legislature can't even pass a non-binding resolution in a chamber their party controls to prevent the casting of electoral votes that the other side doesn't even need. This is about as far from an apocalyptic final battle as you can get. I really hope that when Pfizer's covid vaccine hits the market they include a few doses of generic sildenafil in the care package for these knobs, because they clearly need it.
The GOP majority leaders in both the Pennsylvania House and Senate have already said they are not going to pass any such motion, so I doubt this has any chance. What shocks me is that 26 members of the PA House and 4 members PA Senate have signed on for this. People in those positions are not supposed to be fringe nutjobs.
Fringe nutjobs is exactly what elected representatives in non-competitive districts are supposed to be.
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

Wasn't it someone here who said the best way to think about Pennsylvania is Philadelphia at one end and Pittsburgh at the other and Arkansas in between? There's lots of rednecks in rural Pennsylvania and they vote for those sorts of legislators or, more to the point, those legislators want to be able to go back to their constituencies in the next election and say "I tried."
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

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D.A. Ridgely wrote: 29 Nov 2020, 00:20 Wasn't it someone here who said the best way to think about Pennsylvania is Philadelphia at one end and Pittsburgh at the other and Arkansas in between?
*shudders* That is a horrifying description. Eastern American Sheol.
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by thoreau »

This is the true concession speech: Republican Senators announcing that black ink matters.

https://thehill.com/homenews/news/52719 ... dent-biden
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