Calling 2020 for Entropy

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Jennifer
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by Jennifer »

Possible more disturbing than his third term commentary is his insistence that the only way he can lose is if the Democrats cheat. I do fear he will NOT accept the results of an election where he loses.
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Jennifer
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by Jennifer »

Oh, and regarding the whole business of "What could an American president do, to make a pandemic better or worse" -- I'd say "holding maskless, shoulder-to-shoulder campaign rallies" goes in the "worse" category. He had one in Nevada last weekend.
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by lunchstealer »

And trigger warning for Niskanen and Wilkinson for those triggered by Niskanen and Wilkinson but here is an argument for that suggests that the we-could-never-have-contact-traced crowd are at least not possessed of the most convincing argument:

https://www.niskanencenter.org/trumps-c ... lpability/
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Aresen
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by Aresen »

Jennifer wrote: 14 Sep 2020, 18:19 Possible more disturbing than his third term commentary is his insistence that the only way he can lose is if the Democrats cheat. I do fear he will NOT accept the results of an election where he loses.
That may be his most poisonous legacy of all - seeding distrust in the integrity of the election.
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Number 6
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by Number 6 »

Hugh Akston wrote: 14 Sep 2020, 17:51 Well if he said it then he's definitely going to do it.
He's certainly going to try, presuming his heart hasn't exploded by 2024.
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Painboy
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by Painboy »

And the likelihood of that actually happening? Insignificant.

While this...
Democratic insiders set up a 'war room' to quickly kill the filibuster
is much more likely to happen.

Gun bans, free speech restrictions, onerous business regulations, and so on. There's plenty on the Democrat's mind that they will be pushing with control of the executive and legislator. Things can happen that not only can be worse that Trump policies but could trigger some very ugly backlash. In some things the Democratic party can be every bit as delusional as the Republicans.

There are going to be some real negatives to a Biden victory. To dismiss them out of hand just because you don't like Trump's actions and his silly blathering is foolish. It's about weighing the likelihood of things happening or not that are important to you.

Would a Trump defeat be better for the country? IMHO probably. But there are going to be real downsides to it as well. Downsides that for some are too much. That's a legitimate view to have.
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by lunchstealer »

Painboy wrote: 14 Sep 2020, 20:03
And the likelihood of that actually happening? Insignificant.

While this...
Democratic insiders set up a 'war room' to quickly kill the filibuster
is much more likely to happen.

Gun bans, free speech restrictions, onerous business regulations, and so on. There's plenty on the Democrat's mind that they will be pushing with control of the executive and legislator. Things can happen that not only can be worse that Trump policies but could trigger some very ugly backlash. In some things the Democratic party can be every bit as delusional as the Republicans.

There are going to be some real negatives to a Biden victory. To dismiss them out of hand just because you don't like Trump's actions and his silly blathering is foolish. It's about weighing the likelihood of things happening or not that are important to you.

Would a Trump defeat be better for the country? IMHO probably. But there are going to be real downsides to it as well. Downsides that for some are too much. That's a legitimate view to have.
I don't think there's anyone on this forum saying that Biden is their preferred candidate nor that they think he's going to be all sweetness and light.
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Jadagul
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by Jadagul »

So the core of my critique of Trump is

that there are a lot of places where the literal numbers he's putting up aren't that bad. We've killed fewer foreigners than we did in the Iraq invasion, the economy is doing fine, etc.

But in a lot of cases, Trump is spending down capital. He's spending down institutional capital by weakening a lot of our core institutions; he's weakening diplomatic capital by reneging on a bunch of agreements casually; he's spending down peace-capital by pushing the world into a less stable geopolitical equilibrium that is likely to lead to more armed conflict; he is in fact spending down literal capital by deficit-spending handouts to his supporters and to people his idiotic trade wars hurt.

And the thing about spending down capital is, you can look really rich while you're doing it. Because your consumption is staying steady or going up; it's just being funded out of future consumption in a way that isn't immediately obvious.

Basically, the thing that some of y'all is going on with the Fed and money printing, I think is going on with Trump and basically everything the government does. He's making us look good in the short term in ways that will immiserate us in the long term.
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by thoreau »

Sort of like how he runs his family business.
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by Eric the .5b »

Or to put it more bluntly, Team Blue wants to get rid of one check on power, while Team Red has cheerfully done everything they can to tear down every single check on power that's gotten in Trump's way.

We could lose the filibuster and have a Red-dominated USSC scowling at anything untoward Team Blue comes up with, or we can have Trump and Team Red continue this orgy. The former, I'm pretty sure, still leaves us a free-ish country like we are now.
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by Eric the .5b »

Or, to go all WW2, first we get rid of the orange fascist, then we get to hating Uncle Joe and carping at everything he does.
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Jennifer
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by Jennifer »

If we're going to go WW2 anyway: remember Trump's concentration camps? A new whistleblower report claims mass hysterectomies are being performed on detainees at one ICE detention center (in addition to refusal to test for covid and other now-bog-standard abuses).

No mention whether prisoners are still being denied soap, toothpaste, sanitary pads and the like, though.
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thoreau
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by thoreau »

None of this has happened before, nor will it happen again. So say we all.
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by Highway »

I'm just waiting for that story to fall apart, because it has to, right? I mean, that's so completely horrible that it has to be something someone made up, right?
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thoreau
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by thoreau »

Highway wrote: 14 Sep 2020, 22:09
I'm just waiting for that story to fall apart, because it has to, right? I mean, that's so completely horrible that it has to be something someone made up, right?
I want it to be entirely false, but if it's true I hope there aren't any inaccuracies. Because if there's even one tiny inaccuracy in some detail then the denialists will have a field day and the sterilization camps will continue.
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Shem
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by Shem »

Highway wrote: 14 Sep 2020, 22:09
I'm just waiting for that story to fall apart, because it has to, right? I mean, that's so completely horrible that it has to be something someone made up, right?
I mean, I hope so, but a lot of it is attested as happening elsewhere. Not the sterilizations, but the Covid stuff and the bad conditions.
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by Aresen »

Highway wrote: 14 Sep 2020, 22:09
I'm just waiting for that story to fall apart, because it has to, right? I mean, that's so completely horrible that it has to be something someone made up, right?
Amen. I am really hoping that story is a malicious rumor.

I can think of a lot of MAGAs it would make happy, though.
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

Setting aside substantive issues of domestic or foreign policy, Trump needs to lose as a first step in the restoration of, dare I say it, law and order. Even if you could convince me that an unbridled Trump in his second term wouldn't be the disaster I'm almost certain it would be, it would still be important for the electorate to deny him that opportunity because granting it to him would be tantamount to acknowledging that American voters will accept such behavior in future presidents.

In 2016, Trump was a political unknown and a risk which evidently many millions of voters were willing to take given his opponent. In 2020, Trump is no longer an unknown. Similar to Jadagul's concerns, what has been most troubling to me about Trump is his indifference to or hostility toward institutions intended both as constraint on presidential power and as institutional expertise (e.g., in foreign affairs and intelligence) intended to facilitate the president in exercising that power responsibly. And the difference between suffering that behavior in a first term and in a second term is that re-electing him ratifies such behavior as acceptable henceforth.

Mind you, I think a sufficient ground to vote against Trump is that he's seriously mentally ill. I don't care what DSM-5 diagnoses would or would not be justified clinically, the man is dangerously, well, insane. So if there isn't a DSM mental illness ready made, we'll have to add Trump Syndrome in the next edition.

If the price America has to pay to get rid of Trump is European level Social Welfare programs and a litany of "reforms" I'll be screaming in opposition to, well, I think it's still worth it.
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Shem
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by Shem »

Completely bog-standard behavior from a high official, exactly what we can expect from a Biden Administration:

Top Trump official deletes Twitter after accusing scientists of plotting against Trump: report
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by Warren »

If the price America has to pay to get rid of Trump is European level Social Welfare programs and a litany of "reforms" I'll be screaming in opposition to, well, I think it's still worth it.
You'd cut a great road though our freedoms to get at the Devil?


I don't see that a Trump defeat will have any of the benefits you believe it to have. He's not going to lose that big. And the problem will be that he didn't build a wall, that he didn't go far enough.

But it doesn't matter what either one of us thinks. And neither of our votes will matter in the slightest on whether he is or isn't reelected.
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by Eric the .5b »

So why be butthurt about people voting for Biden, Warren?
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by Warren »

Eric the .5b wrote: 15 Sep 2020, 10:57 So why be butthurt about people voting for Biden, Warren?
Because a vote for the LP is not meaningless. It counts towards ballot access and provides a better alternative to the major parties.
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by Eric the .5b »

Warren wrote: 15 Sep 2020, 11:11
Eric the .5b wrote: 15 Sep 2020, 10:57 So why be butthurt about people voting for Biden, Warren?
Because a vote for the LP is not meaningless. It counts towards ballot access and provides a better alternative to the major parties.
By the logic you were just using, that doesn't matter. Supporting the LP won't ever make it win anything.
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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Post by Warren »

Your logic is flawed
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