Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

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Jennifer
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

Post by Jennifer » 20 Oct 2016, 14:50

Nope -- still getting a login page. Did the Times change its software to keep out non-subscribers who'd used up the month's free articles, or something?
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Mo
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

Post by Mo » 20 Oct 2016, 14:53

Yeah, you may have to delete your NYTimes cookies or go in Incognito mode.
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JasonL
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

Post by JasonL » 20 Oct 2016, 15:04

I agree with the overall point that the future split will be people with employable skills vs people without. I sort of disagree that the near term wrong view that low skill people are victims of globalization will hold. The basis of the issue is technology and I think that will be obvious in say 15 years. There is no amount of tariff you can employ to bring back jerbs of the sort people want to bring back. We are spitting distance to entirely automated automobile production right now.

My take is we are seeing death throes of old economy in the US, and the new fight will be about how deal with lower skill people ongoing. Can they get skills that are productive (yes), are they willing to do that (maybe not), will we just cut them checks (likely at some point but I'm resisting as long as possible there).

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nicole
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

Post by nicole » 20 Oct 2016, 15:06

Jennifer wrote:Nope -- still getting a login page. Did the Times change its software to keep out non-subscribers who'd used up the month's free articles, or something?
The Times has always required a login. At least for like, 15+ years.
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Jennifer
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

Post by Jennifer » 20 Oct 2016, 16:53

nicole wrote:
Jennifer wrote:Nope -- still getting a login page. Did the Times change its software to keep out non-subscribers who'd used up the month's free articles, or something?
The Times has always required a login. At least for like, 15+ years.
I have not seen one before today.
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

Post by Jennifer » 27 Feb 2018, 13:39

Shikha Dalmia: "The GOP as we knew it is dead. And what comes next is terrifying.

https://theweek.com/articles/756322/gop ... terrifying
Parties need agendas. But President Trump has so thoroughly trashed his party's brand of free market loyalty, fiscal responsibility, and traditional values that one cannot help but wonder: What will the Grand Old Party stand for after Trump departs from the White House?

Here's my prediction: The GOP of the post-Trump future will intensify the culture wars against the liberal "enemy," and throw into the mix a regressive economic agenda that consists of nativist immigrant bashing and mercantilist America First-ism. Essentially, even without Trump, the GOP will fuel itself with Trumpism.... There is no better evidence of this than last week's Conservative Political Action Committee, a reliable barometer of grassroots sentiment. Two years ago, candidate Trump had to cancel his appearance at the gathering in the face of a planned walkout. This year Marion LePen, the leader of France's National Front, a rabidly nationalist party whose economic platform is to the left of Bernie Sanders and cultural platform to the right of alt-right leader Richard Spencer, was an honored guest. Her party is vehemently anti-trade and anti-immigration — and it favors universal government-run health care, forcing banks to lend money to small and mid-sized companies, and nationalizing roads.

But even as CPAC attendees rallied behind her ultra-nationalist message, they booed and hollered at Mona Charen, a highly respected conservative commentator. Indeed, Charen, who called out family values conservatives for ignoring Trump's serial-adultery and sexual predation allegations and inviting an ethno-statist like LePen, was escorted out by a security detail!

After such a rapid and complete implosion, conservatives won't be able to pivot back to their old principles. And who would believe them if they tried? Trump has beaten back his party's better angels and released its worst demons, which aren't likely to vanish anytime soon.
Ramp up the culture wars: they're pretty much all the Republicans have left.
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

Post by lunchstealer » 27 Feb 2018, 14:51

Jennifer wrote:
27 Feb 2018, 13:39
Shikha Dalmia: "The GOP as we knew it is dead. And what comes next is terrifying.

https://theweek.com/articles/756322/gop ... terrifying
Parties need agendas. But President Trump has so thoroughly trashed his party's brand of free market loyalty, fiscal responsibility, and traditional values that one cannot help but wonder: What will the Grand Old Party stand for after Trump departs from the White House?

Here's my prediction: The GOP of the post-Trump future will intensify the culture wars against the liberal "enemy," and throw into the mix a regressive economic agenda that consists of nativist immigrant bashing and mercantilist America First-ism. Essentially, even without Trump, the GOP will fuel itself with Trumpism.... There is no better evidence of this than last week's Conservative Political Action Committee, a reliable barometer of grassroots sentiment. Two years ago, candidate Trump had to cancel his appearance at the gathering in the face of a planned walkout. This year Marion LePen, the leader of France's National Front, a rabidly nationalist party whose economic platform is to the left of Bernie Sanders and cultural platform to the right of alt-right leader Richard Spencer, was an honored guest. Her party is vehemently anti-trade and anti-immigration — and it favors universal government-run health care, forcing banks to lend money to small and mid-sized companies, and nationalizing roads.

But even as CPAC attendees rallied behind her ultra-nationalist message, they booed and hollered at Mona Charen, a highly respected conservative commentator. Indeed, Charen, who called out family values conservatives for ignoring Trump's serial-adultery and sexual predation allegations and inviting an ethno-statist like LePen, was escorted out by a security detail!

After such a rapid and complete implosion, conservatives won't be able to pivot back to their old principles. And who would believe them if they tried? Trump has beaten back his party's better angels and released its worst demons, which aren't likely to vanish anytime soon.
Ramp up the culture wars: they're pretty much all the Republicans have left.
I can't tell if that's going to be good or bad for the Democrats. Could mean the grown-ups from the GOP move into the Democratic party without wholly embracing Team Blue dogma and we still get a Clintony-Obama-y centrist consensus. If it becomes a war between a Warren/Sanders-like party and an Arpaio/Kobach party, we're fucked.
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Jennifer
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

Post by Jennifer » 27 Feb 2018, 14:55

lunchstealer wrote:
27 Feb 2018, 14:51
Jennifer wrote:
27 Feb 2018, 13:39
Shikha Dalmia: "The GOP as we knew it is dead. And what comes next is terrifying.

https://theweek.com/articles/756322/gop ... terrifying
Parties need agendas. But President Trump has so thoroughly trashed his party's brand of free market loyalty, fiscal responsibility, and traditional values that one cannot help but wonder: What will the Grand Old Party stand for after Trump departs from the White House?

Here's my prediction: The GOP of the post-Trump future will intensify the culture wars against the liberal "enemy," and throw into the mix a regressive economic agenda that consists of nativist immigrant bashing and mercantilist America First-ism. Essentially, even without Trump, the GOP will fuel itself with Trumpism.... There is no better evidence of this than last week's Conservative Political Action Committee, a reliable barometer of grassroots sentiment. Two years ago, candidate Trump had to cancel his appearance at the gathering in the face of a planned walkout. This year Marion LePen, the leader of France's National Front, a rabidly nationalist party whose economic platform is to the left of Bernie Sanders and cultural platform to the right of alt-right leader Richard Spencer, was an honored guest. Her party is vehemently anti-trade and anti-immigration — and it favors universal government-run health care, forcing banks to lend money to small and mid-sized companies, and nationalizing roads.

But even as CPAC attendees rallied behind her ultra-nationalist message, they booed and hollered at Mona Charen, a highly respected conservative commentator. Indeed, Charen, who called out family values conservatives for ignoring Trump's serial-adultery and sexual predation allegations and inviting an ethno-statist like LePen, was escorted out by a security detail!

After such a rapid and complete implosion, conservatives won't be able to pivot back to their old principles. And who would believe them if they tried? Trump has beaten back his party's better angels and released its worst demons, which aren't likely to vanish anytime soon.
Ramp up the culture wars: they're pretty much all the Republicans have left.
I can't tell if that's going to be good or bad for the Democrats. Could mean the grown-ups from the GOP move into the Democratic party without wholly embracing Team Blue dogma and we still get a Clintony-Obama-y centrist consensus. If it becomes a war between a Warren/Sanders-like party and an Arpaio/Kobach party, we're fucked.
I fear it's going to be bad, based on a complaint I've made for some time: namely, that the Dems won't improve until the Reps do, because the Dems don't have to; all they have to do is be less-evil than the GOP. And that gets easier by the day. The GOP's already changed itself from the Racist Dogwhistle Party to the Racist Sousaphone Band.
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Jennifer
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

Post by Jennifer » 19 Apr 2018, 16:16

College Republicans get in trouble for posting I.C.E. I.C.E. Baby signs.

Agree with the whole bit about how it is protected speech and should be allowed and etc., but at the same time -- goddamn! The up-and-coming generation of GOPers isn't even trying to do the old-school "small government, personal freedom, fiscal responsibility" thing, are they? It's all big government in support of bigotry.

https://reason.com/archives/2018/04/19/ ... ge-trouble
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

Post by Eric the .5b » 19 Apr 2018, 22:37

"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

Post by Warren » 20 Apr 2018, 00:26

Sounds like a plan.
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

Post by Aresen » 20 Apr 2018, 01:20

I am still convinced that Trump will be a long-term disaster for the GOP. I think the GOP is going to lose control of both houses over the 2018 and 2020 election cycles.

Get set for a decade of Team Blue rule.
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

Post by Eric the .5b » 20 Apr 2018, 02:33

Aresen wrote:
20 Apr 2018, 01:20
I am still convinced that Trump will be a long-term disaster for the GOP. I think the GOP is going to lose control of both houses over the 2018 and 2020 election cycles.

Get set for a decade of Team Blue rule.
It's kind of like how high fever, vomiting, and diarrhea are how our bodies fight off diseases.
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

Post by Kolohe » 20 Apr 2018, 11:30

Aresen wrote:
20 Apr 2018, 01:20
I am still convinced that Trump will be a long-term disaster for the GOP. I think the GOP is going to lose control of both houses over the 2018 and 2020 election cycles.

Get set for a decade of Team Blue rule.
The only thing keeping Team Blue together is "Hey, we're not the overt bigots" - which is good enough for now.

But their own internal contradictions are perhaps greater than Team Red, as the Team Red stool legs are largely not in tension with each other.
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

Post by Eric the .5b » 20 Apr 2018, 14:24

Kolohe wrote:
20 Apr 2018, 11:30
But their own internal contradictions are perhaps greater than Team Red, as the Team Red stool legs are largely not in tension with each other.
Sure, but so long as multi-spectrum bigots can find a political home (and they will so long as there are lots of them, and that's not changing nearly as fast as we might have thought), that will hold the Blue factions together. Even if Team Red collapses, it will have successors, and I've if those will become the new Other Team.

The future is the sports bar stomping on a human face, forever.
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

Post by Warren » 21 Apr 2018, 11:09

Aresen wrote:
20 Apr 2018, 01:20
I am still convinced that Trump will be a long-term disaster for the GOP. I think the GOP is going to lose control of both houses over the 2018 and 2020 election cycles.

Get set for a decade of Team Blue rule.
Team Blue isn't cannibalizing itself the way the GOP is, but Trump is in large part a rejection of Blue policy, which they will double down on because they view Trump is corroding the GOP as opportunity.
Also, unlike W and Obama, Trump is a very short-term disaster. All his damage will be wiped away by the first mid-term following his watch.
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

Post by Andrew » 21 Apr 2018, 14:29

Warren wrote:
21 Apr 2018, 11:09
All his damage will be wiped away by the first mid-term following his watch.
But the Team Blue government expansion we get in his wake will be with us forever.
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

Post by Mo » 21 Apr 2018, 14:31

Trump isn’t a reaction to Blue policy, he’s a reaction to Hillary. Obama would have mopped the floor with him. If anything, his victory in the primary is a reaction to Red policy. He spoke a lot of pieties about maintaining the social safety net. The Obama repeal went down in flames, despite only needing Republican votes and the tax cuts aren’t popular. With unified government, the only thing Republicans have accomplished are the TCJA and but Gorsuch.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

Post by Mo » 21 Apr 2018, 14:32

Warren wrote: Also, unlike W and Obama, Trump is a very short-term disaster. All his damage will be wiped away by the first mid-term following his watch.
How do you figure? Someone more competent than him will be able to use the same playbook more effectively.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

Post by Warren » 21 Apr 2018, 14:49

Mo wrote:
21 Apr 2018, 14:32
Warren wrote: Also, unlike W and Obama, Trump is a very short-term disaster. All his damage will be wiped away by the first mid-term following his watch.
How do you figure? Someone more competent than him will be able to use the same playbook more effectively.
You can't have it both ways. Either Trump's tenure will be a disaster or a more competent successor will use the same playbook. It can't be both.
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

Post by Warren » 21 Apr 2018, 14:52

Mo wrote:
21 Apr 2018, 14:31
... and the tax cuts aren’t popular.
Dude. You need to come up for air. The tax cuts are wildly popular
Gentrification is undocumented immigration for the left-leaning. - Shem

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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

Post by Shem » 21 Apr 2018, 15:04

Warren wrote:
21 Apr 2018, 14:52
Mo wrote:
21 Apr 2018, 14:31
... and the tax cuts aren’t popular.
Dude. You need to come up for air. The tax cuts are wildly popular
What are you talking about?
Only 27 percent of Americans call the law passed in December a good idea, while 36 percent think it is a bad idea, according to an NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll released this week.
As for the most lasting effect of Trump, I have a riddle. What happens when 300,000 Puerto Ricans who were left to die by the Republican Party move to Florida, where they're eligible to vote the second they establish residency?
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

Post by Warren » 21 Apr 2018, 15:28

Shem wrote:
21 Apr 2018, 15:04
What are you talking about?
I'm talking about everyone that got a bonus check from their employer last year. House GOP leaders are making the midterms all about the tax law and it's not a challenge to sell.
Shem wrote:
21 Apr 2018, 15:04
As for the most lasting effect of Trump, I have a riddle. What happens when 300,000 Puerto Ricans who were left to die by the Republican Party move to Florida, where they're eligible to vote the second they establish residency?
How are 300,000 dead people going to move to Florida?
Gentrification is undocumented immigration for the left-leaning. - Shem

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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 21 Apr 2018, 15:33

Trump has a sui generis set of personality flaws relative to whatever's left of what counts as mainstream Republicanism. He's the drunkard Uncle you are forced to leave the kids with, the one who won't molest them but will let them eat pure sugar and watch TV all night while he hides himself in another room to drink and masturbate to porn. The kids will all love him until their fatigue and sugar crash turns them into sick hellions, but you'll replace him as soon as you safely can.

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Mo
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

Post by Mo » 21 Apr 2018, 15:58

Warren wrote:
21 Apr 2018, 15:28
Shem wrote:
21 Apr 2018, 15:04
What are you talking about?
I'm talking about everyone that got a bonus check from their employer last year. House GOP leaders are making the midterms all about the tax law and it's not a challenge to sell.
That's 3 million people, which is 1% of the population or 3% of households. As for running on the tax cut to great success...
Warren wrote:
21 Apr 2018, 15:28
Shem wrote:
21 Apr 2018, 15:04
As for the most lasting effect of Trump, I have a riddle. What happens when 300,000 Puerto Ricans who were left to die by the Republican Party move to Florida, where they're eligible to vote the second they establish residency?
How are 300,000 dead people going to move to Florida?
Left to die != dead.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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