Brexit: what say ye?

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Mo
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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by Mo » 26 May 2019, 15:25

Direct democracy will vote for the pony.
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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by thoreau » 26 May 2019, 16:01

Mo wrote:Direct democracy will vote for the pony.
Don't put the pony option on the ballot. Let them choose between a border in the Irish Sea, a border between Northern Ireland and the Republic, or staying in the customs union.

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Mo
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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by Mo » 26 May 2019, 16:02

Then the hard Brexiters will complain that you didn’t give all the options.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by thoreau » 26 May 2019, 16:03

But isn't all-out Brexit implicitly the option with a border between Northern Ireland and the Republic?

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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by Mo » 26 May 2019, 16:28

No. Because that would violate the Good Friday Agreement. So they want a soft border with RoI, no border between NI and the rest of the UK, but a hard border with the rest of the EU, which is unworkable.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by thoreau » 26 May 2019, 16:36

So they want hard Brexit+Good Friday Agreement? Why not tell them that hard Brexit means violating the Good Friday Agreement and they need to decide whether or not they want to go there?

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thoreau
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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by thoreau » 26 May 2019, 16:38

Wait, I've got it: The Republic of Ireland can also leave the EU and then the British Isles can have no hard internal borders but a hard border with the EU.

Here's how you make it happen: Propose it to Ireland, and after they die of laughter conquer the uninhabited territory left behind.

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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by Mo » 26 May 2019, 16:54

thoreau wrote:So they want hard Brexit+Good Friday Agreement? Why not tell them that hard Brexit means violating the Good Friday Agreement and they need to decide whether or not they want to go there?

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Considering the Tories are only in power because of the DUP (NI Unionists) good fucking luck with that.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by Kolohe » 26 May 2019, 19:36

What if we told the French to give another go at it?

Eta or the Italians?
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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by Warren » 26 May 2019, 20:37

What if the Germans give it a go?
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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by Shem » 26 May 2019, 20:40

thoreau wrote:
26 May 2019, 14:38
Mo wrote:Referendum needs to be the exact same binary question, Leave or Remain.
But the problem right now is not whether to leave, it's how to leave. The question needs to have a few options, and they only leave if (1) a majority again vote "leave" and (2) at least one of the "leave" mechanisms gets majority approval.

So a 2 part ballot:
(1) Leave or remain?
(2) If we leave, which of the following ways of leaving would you approve? (Say yes to as many as you wish)

Then have a menu of 3-4 options, involving different ways of handling Northern Ireland and the EU single market.

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The only deal that constitutes an actual Brexit (as opposed to a unilateral surrender of the UK's power to guide the rules they will then have to live under) is the one May negotiated. To that end, there's really only one way you can do it at this point:

May Plan:
  • Yes
  • No
If May Plan is not ratified:
  • Remain
  • Leave Without Deal
A series of advisory votes might have been a good idea three years ago when this started, but at this point we're 158 days away from the last deadline, and the EU had made it clear they're sick of the UK's shit, and are only maybe, possibly, willing to extend further in service of revoking Article 50. And even then, they might still tell them to piss up a rope if they've spent the intervening time fucking around. Like, wasting two months for a leadership contest that'll either end in another scapegoat, or in a vote if no confidence when the Tory remainers face the prospect of Prime Minister BoJo the Crashout Clown.
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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by Shem » 26 May 2019, 21:18

thoreau wrote:
26 May 2019, 16:36
So they want hard Brexit+Good Friday Agreement? Why not tell them that hard Brexit means violating the Good Friday Agreement and they need to decide whether or not they want to go there?

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Yes, because when I'm trying to decide whether to chuck the only thing that keeps a bunch of religious whackjobs from shooting at each other (keeping in mind they only stopped last time because they got tired, not because they had given up on the utility of shooting as a means of problem-solving) the very person I want on my Brain Trust is a moron with a Scouse accent whose deep wisdom on how to cut the Gordian Knot that is decades of economic interrelation consists of "wot? Just crash out. Brexit means Brexit."
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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by Warren » 26 May 2019, 21:37

Shem wrote:
26 May 2019, 21:18
...the very person I want on my Brain Trust is a moron with a Scouse accent...
I gotta ask, What's a "Scouse" accent.

I don't mind googling, but I'd sooner hear your take.
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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by Aresen » 26 May 2019, 22:02

Mo wrote:
26 May 2019, 16:28
No. Because that would violate the Good Friday Agreement. So they want a soft border with RoI, no border between NI and the rest of the UK, but a hard border with the rest of the EU, which is unworkable.
Which just shows that the right has unicorns too.

I think the biggest fantasy (lie?) that Johnson, Farage and Rees-Moog sold was that Britain could somehow dictate terms to the EU.
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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by Shem » 26 May 2019, 22:05

Warren wrote:
26 May 2019, 21:37
Shem wrote:
26 May 2019, 21:18
...the very person I want on my Brain Trust is a moron with a Scouse accent...
I gotta ask, What's a "Scouse" accent.

I don't mind googling, but I'd sooner hear your take.
Liverpool and environs. The environs, in this case.
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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by Aresen » 26 May 2019, 22:08

Shem wrote:
26 May 2019, 22:05
Warren wrote:
26 May 2019, 21:37
Shem wrote:
26 May 2019, 21:18
...the very person I want on my Brain Trust is a moron with a Scouse accent...
I gotta ask, What's a "Scouse" accent.

I don't mind googling, but I'd sooner hear your take.
Liverpool and environs. The environs, in this case.
'Environs' is a synonym for 'sewer?' YLSNED
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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by Hugh Akston » 27 May 2019, 01:28

Aresen wrote:
26 May 2019, 22:02
Mo wrote:
26 May 2019, 16:28
No. Because that would violate the Good Friday Agreement. So they want a soft border with RoI, no border between NI and the rest of the UK, but a hard border with the rest of the EU, which is unworkable.
Which just shows that the right has unicorns too.

I think the biggest fantasy (lie?) that Johnson, Farage and Rees-Moog sold was that Britain could somehow dictate terms to the EU.
Well I mean the UK did send the EU £350 million a week, so that's some leverage.
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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by Shem » 27 May 2019, 01:58

Given that the claim wasn't actually true, I'm not sure what your point is.
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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by Kolohe » 27 May 2019, 15:43

Warren wrote:
26 May 2019, 20:37
What if the Germans give it a go?
Again? Maybe. But it's still another couple decades before anyone is of marriageable age.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by thoreau » 27 May 2019, 15:50

Kolohe wrote:
Warren wrote:
26 May 2019, 20:37
What if the Germans give it a go?
Again? Maybe. But it's still another couple decades before anyone is of marriageable age.
Ok, I am missing your point in this thread. I thought you were suggesting someone try to invade the UK. Or are you suggesting that somebody try to marry into the royal family?

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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by lunchstealer » 27 May 2019, 15:54

Shem wrote:
thoreau wrote:
26 May 2019, 16:36
So they want hard Brexit+Good Friday Agreement? Why not tell them that hard Brexit means violating the Good Friday Agreement and they need to decide whether or not they want to go there?

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Yes, because when I'm trying to decide whether to chuck the only thing that keeps a bunch of religious whackjobs from shooting at each other (keeping in mind they only stopped last time because they got tired, not because they had given up on the utility of shooting as a means of problem-solving) the very person I want on my Brain Trust is a moron with a Scouse accent whose deep wisdom on how to cut the Gordian Knot that is decades of economic interrelation consists of "wot? Just crash out. Brexit means Brexit."
But it’s less Geordian Knot and more Liverpudlian half hitch.
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Kolohe
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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by Kolohe » 27 May 2019, 17:24

thoreau wrote:
27 May 2019, 15:50
Kolohe wrote:
Warren wrote:
26 May 2019, 20:37
What if the Germans give it a go?
Again? Maybe. But it's still another couple decades before anyone is of marriageable age.
Ok, I am missing your point in this thread. I thought you were suggesting someone try to invade the UK. Or are you suggesting that somebody try to marry into the royal family?

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Well the marrying thing worked out a lot more effectively than the blitz thing.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by Aresen » 27 May 2019, 19:18

Kolohe wrote:
27 May 2019, 17:24
thoreau wrote:
27 May 2019, 15:50
Kolohe wrote:
Warren wrote:
26 May 2019, 20:37
What if the Germans give it a go?
Again? Maybe. But it's still another couple decades before anyone is of marriageable age.
Ok, I am missing your point in this thread. I thought you were suggesting someone try to invade the UK. Or are you suggesting that somebody try to marry into the royal family?

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk
Well the marrying thing worked out a lot more effectively than the blitz thing.
Didn't work all that well for Alexandra Romanoff.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by Mo » 02 Jun 2019, 09:32

I finally had a conversation with a hardcore Leaver* and it was everything I imagined and more. The conversation had everything from nostalgia for the Empire, good old fashioned British chauvinism and magical thinking. It was pretty terrific.

* Give me a break, I live in London and I primarily interact with a pretty cosmopolitan crew
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Jennifer
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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by Jennifer » 02 Jun 2019, 16:04

Mo wrote:
02 Jun 2019, 09:32
I finally had a conversation with a hardcore Leaver* and it was everything I imagined and more. The conversation had everything from nostalgia for the Empire, good old fashioned British chauvinism and magical thinking. It was pretty terrific.
What, like he thinks "If we leave the EU, roughly a quarter of the world's populated land mass will once again fall under British control?"
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