Brexit: what say ye?

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Jadagul
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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by Jadagul » 11 Apr 2019, 03:20

D.A. Ridgely wrote:
11 Apr 2019, 02:43
Brexit is becoming to Great Britain what a balanced budget is in the U.S.: just another can to keep kicking down the road.
Someone on twitter joked that it's great the British have a whole six months now to negotiate how long the next extension will be.

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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by lunchstealer » 11 Apr 2019, 03:41

Ellie wrote:Is the guy on the left spitting? At first I thought that puddle was, y'know, the fluids of Onan, or whatever is the polite way to say jizz.
Gentleman's relish.
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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by JD » 11 Apr 2019, 14:26

I sort of feel like a sucker about aspiring to be intellectually rigorous when I could just go on twitter and say capitalism causes space herpes and no one will challenge me on it. - Hugh Akston

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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by Ellie » 11 Apr 2019, 15:28

LOL
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Mo
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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by Mo » 22 May 2019, 13:56

Kellis needs to go on tour in the UK now.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by Aresen » 22 May 2019, 19:45

Mo wrote:
22 May 2019, 13:56
Kellis needs to go on tour in the UK now.
I have no idea what you mean by this.
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Highway
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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by Highway » 22 May 2019, 20:34

Aresen wrote:
22 May 2019, 19:45
Mo wrote:
22 May 2019, 13:56
Kellis needs to go on tour in the UK now.
I have no idea what you mean by this.
I think he spelled Kelis wrong:
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thoreau
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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by thoreau » 24 May 2019, 12:18

Theresa May is a free woman. Good for her.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by Mo » 24 May 2019, 12:44

In 2016, the Tories made a commitment to have Theresa May be their Prime Minister. In 2019, they realized what a colossal mistake it was, went back and voted and changed their mind. But in the end May means May.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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thoreau
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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by thoreau » 24 May 2019, 13:11

Not to defend May, but is there any way that any PM will be able to negotiate a Brexit that preserves most of the benefits of (hardly perfect but still reasonably open) trade with the EU, keeps the peace in Northern Ireland, and also satisfies the Leave crowd that they are, in fact, exiting fer realz rather than just giving up their EU Parliament seats but living with enough EU seats rules to avoid losing too much trade and melting down the economy?

It feels like an over-determined problem, and I don't pity whatever PM is next to grapple with it. I wouldn't be shocked if the next PM exits 10 Downing shortly after (or even before) the completion of Brexit.

EDIT TO FIX MISTAKE FROM HASTY TYPING EARLIER
Last edited by thoreau on 24 May 2019, 16:33, edited 1 time in total.
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Aresen
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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by Aresen » 24 May 2019, 16:31

thoreau wrote:
24 May 2019, 13:11
Not to defend May, but is there any way that any PM will be able to negotiate a Brexit that preserves most of the benefits of (hardly perfect but still reasonably open) trade with the EU, keeps the peace in Northern Ireland, and also satisfies the Leave crowd that they are, in fact, exiting fer realz rather than just giving up their EU Parliament seats but living with enough EU seats to avoid losing too much trade and melting down the economy?
I'm gonna Betteridge that.
It feels like an over-determined problem, and I don't pity whatever PM is next to grapple with it. I wouldn't be shocked if the next PM exits 10 Downing shortly after (or even before) the completion of Brexit.
Mo may scream, but I hope the next British PM is Boris Johnson or Jacob Rees-Mogg. They deserve to wear the shit-show.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by Mo » 24 May 2019, 16:47

I agree. Let them eat shit.

As for your question t, here is the dilemma

Image
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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thoreau
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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by thoreau » 24 May 2019, 17:07

Options A and B (D isn't an option) don't include economic shocks among the downsides. I would have thought that leaving would hurt the economy pretty badly. Are they less reliant on trade than I realized? Or are the benefits of the single market and customs union over-rated?
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
--Mo

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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by Mo » 24 May 2019, 17:38

They do. It’s basically a political consideration document. What pisses me off is the private sector has planned for all of the possible outcomes, but the Brexiteers refuse to spend the money and risk the capital to pull it off. Like go out and build the customs checkpoints that are needed if a hard Brexit hits. There’s no contingency planning going into it.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by Hugh Akston » 25 May 2019, 18:08

Parliament could also just swallow the pill and vote to stay in the EU.
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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by Aresen » 25 May 2019, 18:27

Hugh Akston wrote:
25 May 2019, 18:08
Parliament could also just swallow the pill and vote to stay in the EU.
Politicians hanging from Whitehall lampposts would be a novel decoration. Or they could just use the Banqueting House as they did on January 30, 1649.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

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Hugh Akston
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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by Hugh Akston » 25 May 2019, 18:31

Aresen wrote:
25 May 2019, 18:27
Hugh Akston wrote:
25 May 2019, 18:08
Parliament could also just swallow the pill and vote to stay in the EU.
Politicians hanging from Whitehall lampposts would be a novel decoration. Or they could just use the Banqueting House as they did on January 30, 1649.
I don't think it would actually be too bad for PMs. Brexit passed on a thin margin, and from the reporting I've seen, Brits are increasingly waking up and rolling over to see Nigel Farage and thinking "what did I do last night?"
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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by Mo » 25 May 2019, 18:39

A new referendum is the best idea. “hey, wanna bang Farage again?”
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by Aresen » 25 May 2019, 19:16

Hugh Akston wrote:
25 May 2019, 18:31
Aresen wrote:
25 May 2019, 18:27
Hugh Akston wrote:
25 May 2019, 18:08
Parliament could also just swallow the pill and vote to stay in the EU.
Politicians hanging from Whitehall lampposts would be a novel decoration. Or they could just use the Banqueting House as they did on January 30, 1649.
I don't think it would actually be too bad for PMs. Brexit passed on a thin margin, and from the reporting I've seen, Brits are increasingly waking up and rolling over to see Nigel Farage and thinking "what did I do last night?"
The demos has gotten a taste for rule. Parliament attempting to take it back is not going to play well.
Mo wrote:
25 May 2019, 18:39
A new referendum is the best idea. “hey, wanna bang Farage again?”
From what I have read, this appears to be the only out. Of course, the Hard Brexiters will claim the issue was already democratically decided, but - if I recall correctly - Cameron said the 2016 referendum was 'non-binding.' (To this day, I believe a significant fraction of the 'Yes' vote came from people pissed off with some things the EU had done and voted 'Yes' as a protest, but did not really want to leave the EU.)

The problem with a referendum - as Mo has previously pointed out in this thread - is that the choices of Remain, Soft Brexit, and Hard Brexit appear to be an example of a Condorcet paradox.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by Mo » 26 May 2019, 03:44

Referendum needs to be the exact same binary question, Leave or Remain.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Kolohe
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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by Kolohe » 26 May 2019, 14:08

Maybe if it were phrased in a way more in tune with English sensibilities

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thoreau
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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by thoreau » 26 May 2019, 14:38

Mo wrote:Referendum needs to be the exact same binary question, Leave or Remain.
But the problem right now is not whether to leave, it's how to leave. The question needs to have a few options, and they only leave if (1) a majority again vote "leave" and (2) at least one of the "leave" mechanisms gets majority approval.

So a 2 part ballot:
(1) Leave or remain?
(2) If we leave, which of the following ways of leaving would you approve? (Say yes to as many as you wish)

Then have a menu of 3-4 options, involving different ways of handling Northern Ireland and the EU single market.

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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by Mo » 26 May 2019, 14:55

Part 2 is why you have elected representatives. Part 1 is now, “ You’ve seen what a shit show this whole thing is with an assortment of shit sandwiches. Do you really think Jacob Rees Mog has the right idea?”
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by Hugh Akston » 26 May 2019, 15:01

Mo wrote:
26 May 2019, 14:55
Part 2 is why you have elected representatives. Part 1 is now, “ You’ve seen what a shit show this whole thing is with an assortment of shit sandwiches. Do you really think Jacob Rees Mog has the right idea?”
Right. When you combine direct democracy with the immutable fact of dispersed knowledge you get Brexit.
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thoreau
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Re: Brexit: what say ye?

Post by thoreau » 26 May 2019, 15:17

Mo wrote:Part 2 is why you have elected representatives. Part 1 is now, “ You’ve seen what a shit show this whole thing is with an assortment of shit sandwiches. Do you really think Jacob Rees Mog has the right idea?”
I'm not a fan of direct democracy, and in most cases I would agree with you. But direct democracy handed the elected representatives an insoluble problem, as illustrated in the Venn diagram that you showed. Direct democracy needs to finish what it started.

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"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
--Mo

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