Our Friends, The House of Saud

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Eric the .5b
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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by Eric the .5b » 15 Oct 2018, 09:58

Mo wrote:
13 Oct 2018, 05:08
Obama would have likely withdrawn the Treasury Secretary. I could also see pull back in support/cover in Yemen over it. Obama and Clinton would definitely have not bent over backwards for KSA I’m the Qatar thing.
Which, again, would just be a pointless bit of diplomatic demonstrativeness that wouldn't have changed a thing. Doing anything that would change anything won't happen. Obama may have gone all "Don't do stupid shit" after doing stupid interventionist shit for most of his terms, and Clinton may have talked a good Big Stick game, but they both understood the realpolitik.

How many US presidents of both teams have coughed uncomfortably and looked the other way when the Saudi government did far worse things than murder one journalist? How many will after this, up until the House of Saud are out of power?

I don't know the first one, offhand, but the answer to the second one is all of them.
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Warren
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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by Warren » 15 Oct 2018, 12:10

Hugh Akston wrote:
14 Oct 2018, 23:33
Aresen wrote:
14 Oct 2018, 23:16
Kolohe wrote:
14 Oct 2018, 22:50
Aresen wrote:
12 Oct 2018, 20:58
Eric the .5b wrote:
12 Oct 2018, 18:31
Mo wrote:
12 Oct 2018, 16:24
Yglesias had a good take re: the reaction to one journalist vs. Thousands of Yemenis. Stalin was right.
That and, what would the US do that would have any impact on Saudi Arabia that we'd want it to do?

Evil, shitty governments do evil, shitty things. Unless we're gonna bomb them or start an oil trade war that makes any tiff Trump starts with Canada or China look meaningless, we're not changing anything. (And of course, going to war likely won't cause successful change.) Any US diplomatic action short of that is just a display to satisfy the indignance of concerned Americans.
This is the scary part. Any coup that puts the Saudi royals up against the wall could put a nasty Wahabi regime in place.
Those we actually know how to deal with, though.

And I'm not kidding.
Not sure in what sense you mean 'deal with'. Do you mean 'trade with' or 'bomb the shit out of?'
First one, then the other. That's how American foreign policy works.
I can't tell the players without a score card in the Mid East. Remind me again, what Wahabi regime did we successfully deal with?
Fuck DST sideways with a splintery fence post. - JD

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lunchstealer
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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by lunchstealer » 15 Oct 2018, 12:13

Warren wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 12:10
Hugh Akston wrote:
14 Oct 2018, 23:33
Aresen wrote:
14 Oct 2018, 23:16
Kolohe wrote:
14 Oct 2018, 22:50
Aresen wrote:
12 Oct 2018, 20:58
Eric the .5b wrote:
12 Oct 2018, 18:31

That and, what would the US do that would have any impact on Saudi Arabia that we'd want it to do?

Evil, shitty governments do evil, shitty things. Unless we're gonna bomb them or start an oil trade war that makes any tiff Trump starts with Canada or China look meaningless, we're not changing anything. (And of course, going to war likely won't cause successful change.) Any US diplomatic action short of that is just a display to satisfy the indignance of concerned Americans.
This is the scary part. Any coup that puts the Saudi royals up against the wall could put a nasty Wahabi regime in place.
Those we actually know how to deal with, though.

And I'm not kidding.
Not sure in what sense you mean 'deal with'. Do you mean 'trade with' or 'bomb the shit out of?'
First one, then the other. That's how American foreign policy works.
I can't tell the players without a score card in the Mid East. Remind me again, what Wahabi regime did we successfully deal with?
The House of Saud if 'successfully deal with' means 'successfully bribed into not openly trying to wipe out Israel or playing political oil games.'
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Warren
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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by Warren » 15 Oct 2018, 13:10

lunchstealer wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 12:13
Warren wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 12:10
Hugh Akston wrote:
14 Oct 2018, 23:33
Aresen wrote:
14 Oct 2018, 23:16
Kolohe wrote:
14 Oct 2018, 22:50
Aresen wrote:
12 Oct 2018, 20:58


This is the scary part. Any coup that puts the Saudi royals up against the wall could put a nasty Wahabi regime in place.
Those we actually know how to deal with, though.

And I'm not kidding.
Not sure in what sense you mean 'deal with'. Do you mean 'trade with' or 'bomb the shit out of?'
First one, then the other. That's how American foreign policy works.
I can't tell the players without a score card in the Mid East. Remind me again, what Wahabi regime did we successfully deal with?
The House of Saud if 'successfully deal with' means 'successfully bribed into not openly trying to wipe out Israel or playing political oil games.'
But could we get similar terms from guys that take out the House of Saud?
Fuck DST sideways with a splintery fence post. - JD

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thoreau
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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by thoreau » 15 Oct 2018, 13:37

Anyone who takes out the House of Saud presumably wants to sell oil. Yes, yes, there's no doubt a propaganda poster saying something about Allah, and I'm sure that the foot soldiers seem to believe it. But whoever manages the revolutionaries' budget presumably cares about oil revenue, if for no other reason than to have resources to fight off all of the other people who might want that land for the oil rather than the glory of Allah.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
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lunchstealer
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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by lunchstealer » 15 Oct 2018, 14:10

Warren wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 13:10
lunchstealer wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 12:13
Warren wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 12:10
I can't tell the players without a score card in the Mid East. Remind me again, what Wahabi regime did we successfully deal with?
The House of Saud if 'successfully deal with' means 'successfully bribed into not openly trying to wipe out Israel or playing political oil games.'
But could we get similar terms from guys that take out the House of Saud?
On oil, probably. On Israel, that's a sketchier proposition.
"The constitution is more of a BDSM agreement with a safe word." - Sandy

"Neoliberalism. Austerity. Booga booga!!!!" - JasonL

"We can't confirm rumors that Lynndie England is in the running to be Gina Haspel's personal aide." - DAR

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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by Warren » 15 Oct 2018, 15:29

lunchstealer wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 14:10
Warren wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 13:10
lunchstealer wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 12:13
Warren wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 12:10
I can't tell the players without a score card in the Mid East. Remind me again, what Wahabi regime did we successfully deal with?
The House of Saud if 'successfully deal with' means 'successfully bribed into not openly trying to wipe out Israel or playing political oil games.'
But could we get similar terms from guys that take out the House of Saud?
On oil, probably. On Israel, that's a sketchier proposition.
What's the magnitude of the domestic fallout for cutting Israel loose?
Fuck DST sideways with a splintery fence post. - JD

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Aresen
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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by Aresen » 15 Oct 2018, 15:43

Warren wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 15:29
lunchstealer wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 14:10
Warren wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 13:10
lunchstealer wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 12:13
Warren wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 12:10
I can't tell the players without a score card in the Mid East. Remind me again, what Wahabi regime did we successfully deal with?
The House of Saud if 'successfully deal with' means 'successfully bribed into not openly trying to wipe out Israel or playing political oil games.'
But could we get similar terms from guys that take out the House of Saud?
On oil, probably. On Israel, that's a sketchier proposition.
What's the magnitude of the domestic fallout for cutting Israel loose?
About 8 on the political earthquake scale, I would guess, if a politician were actually to say "No more support for Israel," but outside of AIPAC, I think a POTUS could get away with saying "Israel isn't getting X unless it stops expanding West Bank Settlements."

When AIPAC tried to bitch about it, the logical retort would be 'Supporting Israel is not the same as giving them a blank check."
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lunchstealer
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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by lunchstealer » 15 Oct 2018, 15:43

Yuge. There's a whole branch of Christians who think that propping up Israel will get the second temple built and bring on the end times and the sinners will go to hell and Jesus will come to earth and give them all the Handie of Moral Superiority. Also there are anti-Muslim (and anti-Semitic) racists who think if Israel is strong probably all the Jews will eventually go there and all the Muslims will get themselves killed in nuclear fire or some shit and white people can own North America all to ourselves like Lee Greenwood intended. And there are some influential people, Jewish or otherwise, who are just all in on Israel because it's how we atone for our sins of Genocide (not as much as the Germans have to, natch, but we are white people and all white people must atone) and ....

Israel has a stupidly gigantic constituency in the US. Also Mosad probably has shit on every major US pol that makes Russian dirtgetting look like US magazine to Mosad's TMZ. If I'm using those terms correctly.
"The constitution is more of a BDSM agreement with a safe word." - Sandy

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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by lunchstealer » 15 Oct 2018, 15:45

Aresen wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 15:43
When AIPAC tried to bitch about it, the logical retort would be 'Supporting Israel is not the same as giving them a blank check."
Logic? WRT mideast policy?

Anything short of a blank check backed by another check with a fuckton of zeros is a deep betrayal of Israel and objectively pro-terrorist and blah blah blah.
"The constitution is more of a BDSM agreement with a safe word." - Sandy

"Neoliberalism. Austerity. Booga booga!!!!" - JasonL

"We can't confirm rumors that Lynndie England is in the running to be Gina Haspel's personal aide." - DAR

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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by Aresen » 15 Oct 2018, 15:51

lunchstealer wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 15:45
Aresen wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 15:43
When AIPAC tried to bitch about it, the logical retort would be 'Supporting Israel is not the same as giving them a blank check."
Logic? WRT mideast policy?

Anything short of a blank check backed by another check with a fuckton of zeros is a deep betrayal of Israel and objectively pro-terrorist and blah blah blah.
I know that's what AIPAC says, but there are more and more people who are willing to say 'A plague on both their houses.'
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by Jennifer » 15 Oct 2018, 15:53

Apparently the Saudis' defense is that they didn't MEAN to kill the guy; they only wanted to torture and kidnap him but things got a wee bit out of hand. Oopsie!

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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by lunchstealer » 15 Oct 2018, 15:55

Aresen wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 15:51
lunchstealer wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 15:45
Aresen wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 15:43
When AIPAC tried to bitch about it, the logical retort would be 'Supporting Israel is not the same as giving them a blank check."
Logic? WRT mideast policy?

Anything short of a blank check backed by another check with a fuckton of zeros is a deep betrayal of Israel and objectively pro-terrorist and blah blah blah.
I know that's what AIPAC says, but there are more and more people who are willing to say 'A plague on both their houses.'
Probably, but they don't really care, either. The Islamophobes, AIPAC, and Christian Dominionists can mobilize people.
"The constitution is more of a BDSM agreement with a safe word." - Sandy

"Neoliberalism. Austerity. Booga booga!!!!" - JasonL

"We can't confirm rumors that Lynndie England is in the running to be Gina Haspel's personal aide." - DAR

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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by Aresen » 15 Oct 2018, 16:11

Jennifer wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 15:53
Apparently the Saudis' defense is that they didn't MEAN to kill the guy; they only wanted to torture and kidnap him but things got a wee bit out of hand. Oopsie!

Can a US interceptor jet 'accidentally' shoot down the Saudi Royal Plane when it only intends to do a close flyby?
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by Aresen » 15 Oct 2018, 16:17

Trump points to ‘rogue killers’ in disappearance of Saudi journalist, as Washington and Riyadh scramble to avert rift
Seeking to avoid a major rift with Saudi Arabia over the fate of missing journalist Jamal Khashoggi, U.S. President Donald Trump dispatched Secretary of State Mike Pompeo to Riyadh Monday and hinted at a diplomatic way out by suggesting that “rogue killers” could be to blame for the disappearance of the Washington Post columnist.
He's looking for a one-armed man. Or band of one-armed men.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by Jennifer » 15 Oct 2018, 16:25

Maybe Trump can hire O.J. Simpson to help find the real killer.
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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by lunchstealer » 15 Oct 2018, 16:31

We asked him to verify the last four of his social and he accidentally fell on a bonesaw and received minor complete dismemberment into a duffelbag. Our thoughts and prayers are with the family. An internal review shows that our officers followed standard procedures.
"The constitution is more of a BDSM agreement with a safe word." - Sandy

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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by Pham Nuwen » 15 Oct 2018, 16:40

Jennifer wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 16:25
Maybe Trump can hire O.J. Simpson to help find the real killer.
Ha! Well done.
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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by Mo » 15 Oct 2018, 16:48

I take a bonesaw into all of my job interviews.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by Highway » 15 Oct 2018, 17:13

Trump: "Can't you guys say it was the Central Park 5? I mean, I've been trying to pin something on them for 30 years! And that gives me cover to not give you guys a hard time over this."
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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by thoreau » 15 Oct 2018, 17:17

I'm sure that Hillary Clinton exchanged emails with somebody in the Saudi government at some point during her service as Secretary of State.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
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Aresen
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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by Aresen » 15 Oct 2018, 18:09

thoreau wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 17:17
I'm sure that Hillary Clinton exchanged emails with somebody in the Saudi government at some point during her service as Secretary of State.
If we can't find one, I am sure that Vlad and friends can.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by Mo » 16 Oct 2018, 04:14

If Donald Trump is able to turn the foreign policy and economic elite away from KSA long term, I will concede him a big win.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Hugh Akston
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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by Hugh Akston » 16 Oct 2018, 04:17

Mo wrote:
16 Oct 2018, 04:14
If Donald Trump is able to turn the foreign policy and economic elite away from KSA long term, I will concede him a big win.
How would he do that?
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by Eric the .5b » 16 Oct 2018, 05:35

Jennifer wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 15:53
Apparently the Saudis' defense is that they didn't MEAN to kill the guy; they only wanted to torture and kidnap him but things got a wee bit out of hand. Oopsie!

And thanks to GWB, we don't even have the high ground on that!

I thought to link a story, but there are multiple Wikipedia articles on people "oopsied" during interrogations by the US in this bright young century.

Fucking GWB.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
"Cyberpunk never really gave the government enough credit for their ability to secure a favorable prenup during the Corporate-State wedding." - Shem

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