Our Friends, The House of Saud

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Jennifer
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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by Jennifer » 16 Oct 2018, 05:38

Eric the .5b wrote:
16 Oct 2018, 05:35
Jennifer wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 15:53
Apparently the Saudis' defense is that they didn't MEAN to kill the guy; they only wanted to torture and kidnap him but things got a wee bit out of hand. Oopsie!

And thanks to GWB, we don't even have the high ground on that!

I thought to link a story, but there are multiple Wikipedia articles on people "oopsied" during interrogations by the US in this bright young century.

Fucking GWB.
It's different when we do it, Eric. We only torture people (or put them in concentration camps) to keep the world safe for freedom and democracy.

Poor Khashoggi. How horrible it must be, knowing you're being tortured to death by the wrong kind of people.
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Mo
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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by Mo » 16 Oct 2018, 06:33

Hugh Akston wrote:
16 Oct 2018, 04:17
Mo wrote:
16 Oct 2018, 04:14
If Donald Trump is able to turn the foreign policy and economic elite away from KSA long term, I will concede him a big win.
How would he do that?
Apparently, Trump's bear hug of MbS and KSA, particularly following this, have made a bunch of people who happily glad handed the Saudis before are now "horrified" at KSA. If it sticks because people don't want to like what Trump likes, I'll take the W.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Aresen
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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by Aresen » 16 Oct 2018, 11:26

Mo wrote:
16 Oct 2018, 06:33
Hugh Akston wrote:
16 Oct 2018, 04:17
Mo wrote:
16 Oct 2018, 04:14
If Donald Trump is able to turn the foreign policy and economic elite away from KSA long term, I will concede him a big win.
How would he do that?
Apparently, Trump's bear hug of MbS and KSA, particularly following this, have made a bunch of people who happily glad handed the Saudis before are now "horrified" at KSA. If it sticks because people don't want to like what Trump likes, I'll take the W.
Not buying it. The Team Blue outrage won't last beyond noon January 21, 2021*

*(Yes, I am betting that Trump will lose, even to the 1.5625% indian.)
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

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tr0g
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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by tr0g » 16 Oct 2018, 13:27

I'm baffled. The guy's a Saudi citizen, right? Saudis do fucked up shit to their people all the time and nobody here gives a happy crap. Why is this dude special? Oh, right, he's a journo so the rest of the journos are horrified. Meh. You either understand the Kingdom has no real human rights to speak of or you don't. Whatever.
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Mo
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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by Mo » 16 Oct 2018, 14:23

He’s technically a US person as he has a green card.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Eric the .5b
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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by Eric the .5b » 16 Oct 2018, 17:20

As I understand it, it's a little unusual to go into an embassy, vanish, and then turn up dead, even if you are a citizen of that country.
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Aresen
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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by Aresen » 16 Oct 2018, 17:59

Eric the .5b wrote:
16 Oct 2018, 17:20
As I understand it, it's a little unusual to go into an embassy, vanish, and then turn up dead, even if you are a citizen of that country.
Of course it is unusual. Really sophisticated countries who want to disappear someone usually make sure los desaparecidos aren't seen entering their embassies.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

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tr0g
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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by tr0g » 16 Oct 2018, 18:43

Mo wrote:
16 Oct 2018, 14:23
He’s technically a US person as he has a green card.
If we get to claim universal jurisdiction, other people do too.
Eric the .5b wrote:
16 Oct 2018, 17:20
As I understand it, it's a little unusual to go into an embassy, vanish, and then turn up dead, even if you are a citizen of that country.
The story I read earlier today was that they had a look-a-like on tap and the plan was to take the double back to KSA, show try him, throw him in jail and then quietly release him back to his normal life with $$$. Khashoggi is now in jail in the Kingdom in perpetuity or until he dies of a heart attack.

In any event, the whole thing screams of less than stellar competence, so par for the course for Saudis. Anything they want done right they hire foreigners to do, except for graft and the actual taking of the kickbacks.
Yeah but how can you tell at a glance which junk a raccoon is packing? Also, gay raccoons? - Hugh Akston
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Hugh Akston
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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by Hugh Akston » 16 Oct 2018, 20:35

Mo wrote:
16 Oct 2018, 06:33
Hugh Akston wrote:
16 Oct 2018, 04:17
Mo wrote:
16 Oct 2018, 04:14
If Donald Trump is able to turn the foreign policy and economic elite away from KSA long term, I will concede him a big win.
How would he do that?
Apparently, Trump's bear hug of MbS and KSA, particularly following this, have made a bunch of people who happily glad handed the Saudis before are now "horrified" at KSA. If it sticks because people don't want to like what Trump likes, I'll take the W.
Unfortunately, as Trump so eloquently suggested, there's too much money to be made doing dirty with the Saudis. People will act horrified until he's out of office and then go right back to politely ignoring those little human rights violations.
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Mo
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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by Mo » 18 Oct 2018, 04:47

There are a whole bunch of people who are pretending that the real KSA issue is that the media didn't care about KSA before the murder. Yet there are a number of articles in the MSM about Yemen and from the concern trolls, they have written literally nothing about Yemen.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Dangerman
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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by Dangerman » 18 Oct 2018, 13:58

Jon Ronson needs to write "So you've been publicly renditioned and dismembered."

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JasonL
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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by JasonL » 18 Oct 2018, 14:00

Mo wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 16:48
I take a bonesaw into all of my job interviews.
Hey man, jadagul never goes anywhere without a shoe horn - you are just more dedicated.

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JD
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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by JD » 18 Oct 2018, 14:23

tr0g wrote:
16 Oct 2018, 18:43
Mo wrote:
16 Oct 2018, 14:23
He’s technically a US person as he has a green card.
If we get to claim universal jurisdiction, other people do too.
I don't think we're claiming jurisdiction, just an interest, which is what we'd do if a US person disappeared anywhere else.
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Mo
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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by Mo » 18 Oct 2018, 14:38

his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Aresen
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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by Aresen » 18 Oct 2018, 15:27

Mo wrote:
18 Oct 2018, 14:38
Interesting

https://ahvalnews-com.cdn.ampproject.or ... t-yeni?amp
Ah. The Yagoda precedent.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by Shem » 18 Oct 2018, 15:30

The questions about what if anything would have been done if this were a Clinton administration rather than a Trump adminstration ignores that this probably wouldn't have been done under a Clinton adminstration in the first place (or a Bush administration, for that matter). The Trump adminstration has shown itself to be uniquely capable of being bought off with proper payments to the right hotels in order to prop up shareholder statements. MbS would not have been nearly so brazen if he wasn't 100% sure he could buy his way out of trouble. Which he wouldn't be with anyone else.
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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by Aresen » 18 Oct 2018, 15:47

Shem wrote:
18 Oct 2018, 15:30
The questions about what if anything would have been done if this were a Clinton administration rather than a Trump adminstration ignores that this probably wouldn't have been done under a Clinton adminstration in the first place (or a Bush administration, for that matter). The Trump adminstration has shown itself to be uniquely capable of being bought off with proper payments to the right hotels in order to prop up shareholder statements. MbS would not have been nearly so brazen if he wasn't 100% sure he could buy his way out of trouble. Which he wouldn't be with anyone else.
I wouldn't bet on that.
It’s now possible to look up donation amounts on the Clinton Foundation’s website. Using Trump’s Saudi Arabia example, Saudi Arabia shows up as having given between $10 million and $25 million since the foundation started. When it began in 1997, the foundation’s main goal was to build the Clinton presidential library, although it left open the option to "engage in any and all other charitable, educational and scientific activities" that nonprofits are allowed to do under federal law.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

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Kolohe
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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by Kolohe » 18 Oct 2018, 15:55

Mo wrote:
18 Oct 2018, 14:38
Interesting

https://ahvalnews-com.cdn.ampproject.or ... t-yeni?amp
I've see a few people share this on social media, but the sourcing is questionable (single source, pro-Turkish government news outlet)
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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Eric the .5b
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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by Eric the .5b » 18 Oct 2018, 18:24

Shem wrote:
18 Oct 2018, 15:30
The questions about what if anything would have been done if this were a Clinton administration rather than a Trump adminstration ignores that this probably wouldn't have been done under a Clinton adminstration in the first place (or a Bush administration, for that matter).
I'm not convinced.

I don't think Bush, Obama, or Clinton would pull the oh, it's so unfair to accuse them of things just because they murdered someone bullshit that Trump is engaging in, but I didn't see anything remarkable or shocking about the Saudis doing this. This thread exists because the KSA engages in atrocities. The only difference is that the WaPo and others didn't let this die.

(And contra trog, good for them. Someone targets a cop for death, his fellows freak out and start shooting at random people in trucks. Someone target a reporter for death, and his fellows...let us know about it.)
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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by Highway » 18 Oct 2018, 18:49

It's great that Pat Robertson is standing up for not murdering people... oh, no, he says "let's just hold on and not overreact, we gotta remember we have a 100 billion dollar arms deal with KSA that we need to think of..."
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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by thoreau » 18 Oct 2018, 18:55

I think that if there were a different person in the White House the Saudis would feel the need to be a bit more subtle in their targeting of journalists. Instead of murdering him in a consulate with entrances and exits that are under surveillance by any number of entities, they would do it in a more deniable way. A shot in the back of the head while he was walking down a dark street, or something like that. And the White House would "express deep concern about the alleged death of this missing reporter, and a strong commitment to assist our partners and allies as they investigate this, and hold accountable whoever may ultimately prove to be responsible, while being sure not to let unfounded rumors jeopardize stability in the region."

And the trail would go cold and that would be that.

As to Robertson, he should read the Sermon on the Mount and see if arms dealers are blessed anywhere in there.
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Kolohe
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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by Kolohe » 18 Oct 2018, 19:40

Matthew 10:34
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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Kolohe
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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by Kolohe » 18 Oct 2018, 19:44

Matthew 10's kinda terribad though.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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Aresen
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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by Aresen » 18 Oct 2018, 19:56

Kolohe wrote:
18 Oct 2018, 19:44
Matthew 10's kinda terribad though.
Proverbs 4: 14-15 wrote:Enter not into the path of the wicked, and go not in the way of evil men. Avoid it, pass not by it, turn from it, and pass away
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

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Re: Our Friends, The House of Saud

Post by Aresen » 18 Oct 2018, 19:57

Highway wrote:
18 Oct 2018, 18:49
It's great that Pat Robertson is standing up for not murdering people... oh, no, he says "let's just hold on and not overreact, we gotta remember we have a 100 billion dollar arms deal with KSA that we need to think of..."
Yeah, that was particularly vomitous.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

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