It doesn't matter if you're black or white

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fyodor
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Re: It doesn't matter if you're black or white

Post by fyodor » 18 Aug 2017, 12:13

nicole wrote:
18 Aug 2017, 11:42
fyodor wrote:
18 Aug 2017, 11:25
Don't know where the best place is for this, but...

Can anyone explain to me what the neo-Nazis/Confederates/white supremacists in Charlottesville meant when they were chanting, "We won't be replaced by Jews"? (If not the exact correct wording, pretty close. Definitely included "replaced".)

Are they worried about Jewish pod people? Jews taking their jerbs? The latter seems unlikely as everyone knows Jews are all bankers and media moguls.

I guess maybe Jews just taking over the country? That just seems like a weird way to express that. Not that these folks are anything if not weird, but still, seems "We won't be ruled by Jews" would make a whole lotta more sense for that. Why are they worried about Jews "replacing" them??

Maybe Jennifer knows, through her observations of dem folks?
The answer to your question can be found at 3:44

Not sure if I get that. Interbreeding? Being replaced as mates for white women? The Jews are stealing their women?

Seems like a weird thing to focus on enough to chant it. But, I guess if you're into white purity...?

And the "You" is aimed at all non-whites, re the same thing? Stay away from our women? That's what it's about?
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nicole
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Re: It doesn't matter if you're black or white

Post by nicole » 18 Aug 2017, 13:02

I mean, they are generally concerned about demographic replacement.
"Fucking qualia." -Hugh Akston

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fyodor
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Re: It doesn't matter if you're black or white

Post by fyodor » 18 Aug 2017, 13:26

Huh, okay. Think I'm grokking, finally.

My first thought is that the better way to address that is at home with the wives rather than marching around and chanting, hur hur.

But maybe it's a way of saying "We're here and we're not going anywhere", as if saying that's going to make any difference, but just to beat their chests over it? If they said "immigrants won't replace us" I might begin to see a semblance of some sort of issue to chant to the world about (reprehensibility of it aside). In light of the numbers of it, it still seems weird to bother with Jews per se, but still I see your (and Sandy's) point, thanks....
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nicole
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Re: It doesn't matter if you're black or white

Post by nicole » 18 Aug 2017, 14:09

Sandy wrote:
18 Aug 2017, 12:07
nicole wrote:
18 Aug 2017, 11:44
It was both. They changed both "You will not replace us" and "Jews will not replace us"

Have you guys not watched the vice doc yet?
I watched the part you mentioned, and didn't hear the chant. Just the guy's views on Jews, which...yeah, he's a white supremacist/nazi/whatever, am I supposed to be surprised he is an anti-Semite? That's kinda their thing.

But I don't think that affects their motivation.
The torchlight march footage is at 0:15.
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Re: It doesn't matter if you're black or white

Post by Kolohe » 18 Aug 2017, 14:21

I believe it boils down to the premise that Jews control everything; ergo, any sociological change (either potential or happening, and either real or completely fucking imagined) is being performed by Jews. Hence 'Jews' as the subject of a sentence with a transitive verrb.
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Re: It doesn't matter if you're black or white

Post by Kolohe » 18 Aug 2017, 14:24

Kolohe wrote:
18 Aug 2017, 14:21
I believe it boils down to the premise that Jews control everything; ergo, any sociological change (either potential or happening, and either real or completely fucking imagined) is being performed by Jews. Hence 'Jews' as the subject of a sentence with a transitive verrb.
Eta - like a funny not hateful & poisonous version would be 'The Stonecutters will not make Steve Guttenberg star'
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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Re: It doesn't matter if you're black or white

Post by nicole » 18 Aug 2017, 14:41

I seriously recommend the entire Vice doc.
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Re: It doesn't matter if you're black or white

Post by Highway » 18 Aug 2017, 15:03

nicole wrote:
18 Aug 2017, 14:41
I seriously recommend the entire Vice doc.
Yeah, I just watched it today and would recommend it also.
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fyodor
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Re: It doesn't matter if you're black or white

Post by fyodor » 18 Aug 2017, 15:13

Looks interesting. As soon as I get 22 minutes....

Meanwhile, genetic tests disappoint.

Um, just thinking, I suppose Neanderthal would count as European?
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Re: It doesn't matter if you're black or white

Post by Jennifer » 18 Aug 2017, 17:56

fyodor wrote:
18 Aug 2017, 11:25
Don't know where the best place is for this, but...

Can anyone explain to me what the neo-Nazis/Confederates/white supremacists in Charlottesville meant when they were chanting, "We won't be replaced by Jews"? (If not the exact correct wording, pretty close. Definitely included "replaced".)

Are they worried about Jewish pod people? Jews taking their jerbs? The latter seems unlikely as everyone knows Jews are all bankers and media moguls.

I guess maybe Jews just taking over the country? That just seems like a weird way to express that. Not that these folks are anything if not weird, but still, seems "We won't be ruled by Jews" would make a whole lotta more sense for that. Why are they worried about Jews "replacing" them??

Maybe Jennifer knows, through her observations of dem folks?
Pretty much what Sandy and Kolohe said. These people (with the except of Jared Taylor and the "American Renaissance" folks, who are criticized by the rest of the white supremacy movement because Taylor, at least, has no problem with Jews, believing them to be white folks like anyone else) take for granted that Jews are motivated by evil -- they want to destroy western [white-guy] civilization, they were the ones who started Communism, they were the main driving force behind the African slave trade (and now the main ones trying to make white folks feel guilty about it), they are the ones who support interracial marriage and feminism (not out of any principled belief in racial or sexual equality, of course, but as another way of stigginit to white men), they are the ones who support non-white immigration to Europe and America, etc.

It's not all that different from fundie-Christian fears of the devil: NOT the "Satan/Lucifer" mentioned a couple times in the Bible, but this fairy-tale villainous entity of pure malevolence. Why does evil exist in the world? Because the devil produces it. Why does the devil promote evil? Because he's evil and hates humanity and all that is good. Why does the devil love malevolence and hate goodness? Because he does, is all; it's his nature. You may as well ask why the ebola virus kills people.

Anything these people dislike about modern society is the fault of the Jews. The women's movement didn't come about because women were genuinely sick and tired of being second-class citizens; women were happy and content until evil Jews brainwashed them/us into disliking our glorious exalted state of having men "take care" of us and save us from ever having to earn money or worry our pretty little heads with decision-making about who to vote for or whatever. The civil rights movement didn't happen because black Americans were tired of being shat upon by white folks, but because Jews used black people as a tool to destroy white America.
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fyodor
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Re: It doesn't matter if you're black or white

Post by fyodor » 18 Aug 2017, 18:16

Jennifer wrote:
18 Aug 2017, 17:56
fyodor wrote:
18 Aug 2017, 11:25
Don't know where the best place is for this, but...

Can anyone explain to me what the neo-Nazis/Confederates/white supremacists in Charlottesville meant when they were chanting, "We won't be replaced by Jews"? (If not the exact correct wording, pretty close. Definitely included "replaced".)

Are they worried about Jewish pod people? Jews taking their jerbs? The latter seems unlikely as everyone knows Jews are all bankers and media moguls.

I guess maybe Jews just taking over the country? That just seems like a weird way to express that. Not that these folks are anything if not weird, but still, seems "We won't be ruled by Jews" would make a whole lotta more sense for that. Why are they worried about Jews "replacing" them??

Maybe Jennifer knows, through her observations of dem folks?


Anything these people dislike about modern society is the fault of the Jews.
Oh, well I get the it's all the fault of the Jews part. I was just baffled about the "replacement" thing per se. Like I said, if it's just about the Jews taking over or having a terrible effect on things or them, just seems like there's more cromulent ways of expressing that than asserting that Jews won't replace them, even for these brain-damaged types. I'm getting from Nicole and Sandy that it's about demographics, which still seems weird to apply to Jews per se, however much they hate Jews, but I guess since they like blaming Jews, they just ellide (is that the right word?) over to them from everyone else ("you") who might conceivably be said to be collectively doing that, though even that seems odd to me. Like, who's gonna procreate better than whom, anyway? Blaming immigrants or immigration policy would make more sense to me than "Jews" or "you". Weird, but I think I'm getting what why they're chanting that, anyway.... (I still have to watch Nicole's linked video!)
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Kolohe
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Re: It doesn't matter if you're black or white

Post by Kolohe » 18 Aug 2017, 18:31

I certainly spend more time than I should pondering logical inconsistencies and misdrawn character motivations in various fictional works, but even I think one shouldn't try to think to hard about the deeper subtextual level of neo-nazi chants

I.e. the old you're not going to reason a man out of position he never reasoned himself into to begin with.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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Re: It doesn't matter if you're black or white

Post by nicole » 18 Aug 2017, 18:36

Yeah I mean if you watch the video you will learn that they are fundamentally cray.
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Re: It doesn't matter if you're black or white

Post by Jennifer » 18 Aug 2017, 19:01

fyodor wrote:
18 Aug 2017, 18:16
Jennifer wrote:
18 Aug 2017, 17:56
fyodor wrote:
18 Aug 2017, 11:25
Don't know where the best place is for this, but...

Can anyone explain to me what the neo-Nazis/Confederates/white supremacists in Charlottesville meant when they were chanting, "We won't be replaced by Jews"? (If not the exact correct wording, pretty close. Definitely included "replaced".)

Are they worried about Jewish pod people? Jews taking their jerbs? The latter seems unlikely as everyone knows Jews are all bankers and media moguls.

I guess maybe Jews just taking over the country? That just seems like a weird way to express that. Not that these folks are anything if not weird, but still, seems "We won't be ruled by Jews" would make a whole lotta more sense for that. Why are they worried about Jews "replacing" them??

Maybe Jennifer knows, through her observations of dem folks?


Anything these people dislike about modern society is the fault of the Jews.
Oh, well I get the it's all the fault of the Jews part. I was just baffled about the "replacement" thing per se.
According to proponents of "white genocide," this does NOT actually entail "Murdering white people"; simply making the population not-majority-white is enough. Or taking certain rights which used to be exclusively for whites, and administering them to all people. After Randian came out of the racist closet and started re-tweeting memes such as "Diversity is code for get rid of whites" -- yeah, the white-genociders actually believe this. (For that matter, Nicole and I are actively engaged in "white genocide" -- because we are white women who could make white babies, but are not doing so.) Anytime you see a white woman with a non-white husband -- that's white genocide. When Jim Crow ended, and seats on the bus became first-come, first-served rather than the old status quo of "White passengers are guaranteed a seat, even if it means a black passenger must give up theirs" -- that's white genocide too. No joke.

Have you heard the saying "When you're used to preferential treatment, equal treatment feels like oppression?" There's some of that behind the "fear of replacement," too.
Blaming immigrants or immigration policy would make more sense to me than "Jews" or "you". Weird, but I think I'm getting what why they're chanting that, anyway.
And -- going back to the fairy-tale devil of certain fundamentalist Christians -- blaming things like "Human greed and selfishness" makes more sense than blaming "the devil," if you're trying to figure out where certain forms of injustice and oppression come from. And yet -- it's all the devil. Or, regarding certain feminist attitudes -- suggesting "women were genuinely tired of being at the mercy of abusive husbands" makes more sense than blaming "the Jews" to explain why certain women back in the day advocated things like "property rights for married women" and "laws banning wife-beating." Thinking "women with jobs are genuinely sick of their horny old bosses chasing them around their desk" makes more sense than blaming "the Jews" to explain why certain women promoted anti-sexual-harassment laws -- yet "the Jews" got the blame for all this. Those dastardly Jews, brainwashing us women into wanting personal autonomy!

I mentioned Randian already -- in retrospect, it's really not surprising that he should be the one member of the Gryll to go full-fledged pro-Trump alt-right. Consider: remember his common rhetorical technique which boiled down to "I can say any damned thing I like, be as rude, dishonest or insulting as I please to anyone I wish -- but if you so much as tell me to knock it off, let alone point out how what I'm saying on this thread now contradicts what I said on that other thread yesterday, that's an unfair ad hominem attack on me and my character?"

That really is the attitude behind such people as the Charlottesville Nazis -- I can do or say whatever I want, I have the right to DEMAND everything be exactly as I want it... and I am genuinely being oppressed and victimized by the suggestion that other people might have rights I need to honor in turn. I can be shrilly rude to you, but you'd better not be disrespectful back. You have no RIGHT to be. Thus, women can't possibly have sincere, self-interested, rational reasons to say "Hey, we should vote too, we should be allowed to own property, we shouldn't have to fight off our bosses' pawing hands at work..." no, it had to be The Jews or The Devil or someone putting evil ideas into our heads.

Why? Because if I have the right to demand "Keep your hands off me, asshole," that suggests you have the obligation to keep your hands off me even if you don't want to. If your wife has the right to earn and spend her own money rather than hand every penny over to you, that means you are NOT entitled to control her entire financial life. If your wife has the right to refuse sex (anti-marital rape laws), that means you are NOT entitled to demand sex from her any second of the day. If she can have you arrested for wife-beating, that means YOU lack the right to beat her up if you wish. Et cetera. Or, if your next-door neighbor has the right to sell his house to a black family, that means you do NOT have the right to demand all-white neighbors. And these Nazi-types can't process the thought that other people might actually have the right to not do every damned thing the Nazis want them to do, and refrain from doing what the Nazis don't want them to do. Blaming the Jews or the devil is easier and simpler than considering "Maybe I really ought to look at the issue from my opponent's side, maybe some white women genuinely fall in love with non-white men, maybe that sexy woman I desire genuinely has the right to not-want sex with me..."
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Re: It doesn't matter if you're black or white

Post by nicole » 18 Aug 2017, 19:58

"Free speech in America is under attack," says would-be book-burner.

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/08/alt-rig ... erals/amp/
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Re: It doesn't matter if you're black or white

Post by Highway » 18 Aug 2017, 20:01

nicole wrote:
18 Aug 2017, 19:58
"Free speech in America is under attack," says would-be book-burner.

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/08/alt-rig ... erals/amp/
These assholes whole thing is to decry exactly what they're wanting to do... to someone else. "Free speech is under attack... so we need to shut up those Jews and blacks and latinos." "We're being forced out of our homeland... so we need to *air quotes* remove *air quotes* those people who are doing that." They're being 'forced out' because they don't want to live next to the people they'd rather murder.
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Re: It doesn't matter if you're black or white

Post by fyodor » 18 Aug 2017, 20:04

nicole wrote:
18 Aug 2017, 18:36
Yeah I mean if you watch the video you will learn that they are fundamentally cray.
I started watching and stopped when the car-murder happened, it was just too depressing.

Not that it was a barrel of laughs before that!!

At a certain point I think I followed the logic of Jews taking over and "replacing" white people in a genocide, then I lost it, and I probably don't want to re-understand....

It was interesting to see the counter-protester getting in the WN's face, and next thing you know....
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fyodor
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Re: It doesn't matter if you're black or white

Post by fyodor » 18 Aug 2017, 20:24

Highway wrote:
18 Aug 2017, 20:01
nicole wrote:
18 Aug 2017, 19:58
"Free speech in America is under attack," says would-be book-burner.

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/08/alt-rig ... erals/amp/
These assholes whole thing is to decry exactly what they're wanting to do... to someone else. "Free speech is under attack... so we need to shut up those Jews and blacks and latinos." "We're being forced out of our homeland... so we need to *air quotes* remove *air quotes* those people who are doing that." They're being 'forced out' because they don't want to live next to the people they'd rather murder.
I got the feeling, as I have before, that they want nothing more than to be abused and attacked, and thus martyred, for their cause. And there's often some dork to help 'em along. (Not of course that the dorks are to blame for the murder or for anything else the WN's do)
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Re: It doesn't matter if you're black or white

Post by Highway » 18 Aug 2017, 20:28

fyodor wrote:
18 Aug 2017, 20:24
Highway wrote:
18 Aug 2017, 20:01
nicole wrote:
18 Aug 2017, 19:58
"Free speech in America is under attack," says would-be book-burner.

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/08/alt-rig ... erals/amp/
These assholes whole thing is to decry exactly what they're wanting to do... to someone else. "Free speech is under attack... so we need to shut up those Jews and blacks and latinos." "We're being forced out of our homeland... so we need to *air quotes* remove *air quotes* those people who are doing that." They're being 'forced out' because they don't want to live next to the people they'd rather murder.
I got the feeling, as I have before, that they want nothing more than to be abused and attacked, and thus martyred, for their cause. And there's often some dork to help 'em along. (Not of course that the dorks are to blame for the murder or for anything else the WN's do)
If we're including non-physical attacks, like yelling at them online, then I'd go along with that. Although I think the motivation is mostly just attention-seeking. "If they're yelling at me, then they're paying attention to me, which is more than anyone else has done..."
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Re: It doesn't matter if you're black or white

Post by lunchstealer » 18 Aug 2017, 20:35

fyodor wrote:
18 Aug 2017, 20:04
nicole wrote:
18 Aug 2017, 18:36
Yeah I mean if you watch the video you will learn that they are fundamentally cray.
I started watching and stopped when the car-murder happened, it was just too depressing.

Not that it was a barrel of laughs before that!!

At a certain point I think I followed the logic of Jews taking over and "replacing" white people in a genocide, then I lost it, and I probably don't want to re-understand....

It was interesting to see the counter-protester getting in the WN's face, and next thing you know....
Yeah, I couldn't make it all the way through.
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Re: It doesn't matter if you're black or white

Post by Jennifer » 18 Aug 2017, 22:17

The hell of it is, on Facebook I've got an ongoing debate with some guys who think that pro-Fascist speech SHOULD be outlawed by the First Amendment (this, BTW, is the same guy who previously said that the free market is immoral because most people would rather buy salty/sugary snacks rather than healthy veggies), and he keeps saying that a 1A exception for advocating "fascism" or "genocide" would work just fine -- no matter how many times I've pointed out that the "white genocide" folks could just as easily use that to shut down groups such as Black Lives Matter. There are actual real-life non-hypothetical lawmakers right now who claim BLM is a "violent racist group." But he can't get it through his head -- nobody thinks of themselves as "the bad guys." Those Charlottesville marchers were not lying, exactly, when they claimed that they were the victims being attacked by evil forces bent on doing them harm; they seriously believe it.
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fyodor
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Re: It doesn't matter if you're black or white

Post by fyodor » 18 Aug 2017, 22:30

Jennifer wrote:
18 Aug 2017, 22:17
nobody thinks of themselves as "the bad guys."
The only one:

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Re: It doesn't matter if you're black or white

Post by Tuco » 18 Aug 2017, 23:04

fyodor wrote:
18 Aug 2017, 20:04
I probably don't want to re-understand....
Yeah, the only way to understand it is to think like them, and you don't need that shit in your head.

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Re: It doesn't matter if you're black or white

Post by Sandy » 19 Aug 2017, 01:34

Yeah, I don't need Vice to tell me that white racists are shit people and shittier thinkers. I do need Vice to tell me the answer is to blow up Mount Rushmore to solve it or something.
Hindu is the cricket of religions. You can observe it for years, you can have enthusiasts try to explain it to you, and it's still baffling. - Warren

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Re: It doesn't matter if you're black or white

Post by Jennifer » 19 Aug 2017, 02:04

Seen on Facebook (not a "friend's" post, but one liked by a "friend"):
Big change requires chaos. There is no way around that. And we knew that a Trump presidency would be disruptive. That's why we voted for him.

What I didn't expect was the extent and violence of the hate. And the political establishment &media (on all sides), desperately clinging by their fingernails to their power, has pushed the politics of hate to whip up the mob. Those of us who detested Obama did not riot in the streets or show up at events armed with urine-filled balloons.

But I think the biggest disappointment is that people who are my friends -- and know better -- are still out calling Trump supporters as fascists & racists. It breaks my heart to see them either willingly blinded or turning so callous that they don't care who they hurt.
That there might be a distinction between "Obama" and "a rally of literal swastika-waving Nazis" clearly eludes this woman.

EDIT: This was pasted one full week after that vile rally, one week of Trump's responding by making sure he stays on the good side of the David Duke and Andrew Anglin-types... and she can't understand how anybody could think Trump supporters at this late date might be a wee bit racist.
Last edited by Jennifer on 19 Aug 2017, 02:16, edited 1 time in total.
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