Putin on the Writs

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thoreau
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by thoreau » 14 Jul 2019, 17:30

Minor quibble: If Putin took the Baltics then he wouldn't need to take anything out of Poland to reach Kaliningrad.

But, yeah, it wasn't solely the US military-industrial complex that prevented Russia from becoming America's bestest friend in the early 90's. Bush said "I'm the one that loves you baby can't you see?" but the Russian generals said "You marry him and Mother Russia will disown you."
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lunchstealer
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by lunchstealer » 14 Jul 2019, 17:45

thoreau wrote:
14 Jul 2019, 17:30
Minor quibble: If Putin took the Baltics then he wouldn't need to take anything out of Poland to reach Kaliningrad.

But, yeah, it wasn't solely the US military-industrial complex that prevented Russia from becoming America's bestest friend in the early 90's. Bush said "I'm the one that loves you baby can't you see?" but the Russian generals said "You marry him and Mother Russia will disown you."
I just figured while they were driving to Riga that they might decide to take another chomp out of Poland for old times' sake.
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 14 Jul 2019, 18:25

The U.S. never seriously entertained the idea, so it's a counter-factual moot point, I'll freely grant. Who knows what the Russian leadership, such as it was, might have seriously entertained in the early 90s? As I recall, we were too busy gloating and fretting about stray nukes outside Russia to think beyond that.

The Baltic Republics will always be threatened by mere propinquity. If Poland continues to grow and prosper as, say, the Czech Republic has, I doubt it has much to fear from Russia as a military threat. I haven't kept track, but I suspect several of the other former Warsaw Pact nations aren't in much better shape than Russia, if that, so maybe from the average Albanian or Bulgarian's perspective it doesn't matter all that much?

Anyway, viewing the situation in terms of threats the U.S. should give a rodent's hindquarters about, Russia isn't worth the worry it gets. There's not even Mutually Assured Destruction any longer, which is not to say Russian nukes are no threat at all, but the increasing likelihood is that Russia could not, itself, depend on its ICBMs and such successfully launching, let alone successfully finding their targets, let alone going boom. In a way, that makes Russia even more dangerous or would do so if Putin & Co. weren't morally convinced, as they most certainly are, that our missiles will indeed find their targets.

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Taktix®
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Taktix® » 20 Jul 2019, 10:36

Taktix® wrote:
14 Jul 2019, 01:00
Dangerman wrote:
13 Jul 2019, 22:23
Yes. Russia picking fights and annexing former member/client states is bad, but not new, and not a sign of impending extraordinary action against the US.
I wasn't aware NATO was a former member/client state...
Dangerman wrote:
14 Jul 2019, 09:36
That's actually incoherent.
Retract that. I read your post as "Picks fights WITH and annexing" like you were saying they it's commonplace to attack Turkey. Yes, fair enough in that Russia has been up to this crap forever.

But the difference today is that Putin (if you'll forgive the pun) has a very powerful Trump card, throwing off the very balance that things like MAD are based upon, and not in America's favor. And that sucks because I live here and all my stuff is here. If we're embroiled in election irregularities and food price problems and pointless middle east wars, Putin's going to get away with more of their hijinks than in times past, and since he's not a really pro-freedom guy that's bad for the world's net liberty.

And so we don't talk too much past each other, what do you define as an "extraordinary action against the US"?

So it's clear I don't mean Red Army troops marching down Broadway. But would you define a more consequential attack on our election system in 2020 to be an extraordinary action?
Last edited by Taktix® on 20 Jul 2019, 12:15, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Pham Nuwen » 20 Jul 2019, 11:22

Does this story involve 80's rock music and american flag head bandanas? Cuz I haven't watched Iron Eagle in a long time. We were awesome. Good times.
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Dangerman » 20 Jul 2019, 11:48

I would define extraordinary as something approaching a casuas belli, or anything which is historically different from anything we have done to them, or vice versa. I'm confident that we have interfered with their political process before, and that nations often do this to each other. There is, as an analogy, a difference between a website deploying tracking cookies or using shitty redirects and popups, and the FBI deliberately and specifically wiretapping your connection. I think this election interference is background environmental noise at the international level.

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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Taktix® » 23 Jul 2019, 02:09

Trump's new favorite network One America News Network (OANN), is a Kremlin cutout: https://www.thedailybeast.com/oan-trump ... journalist
Kristian Brunovich Rouz, originally from the Siberian city of Novosibirsk, has been living in San Diego, where OAN is based, since August 2017, reporting on U.S. politics for the 24-hour news channel. For all of that time, he’s been simultaneously writing for Sputnik, a Kremlin-owned news wire that played a role in Russia’s 2016 election-interference operation, according to an assessment by the U.S. intelligence community.
The following paragraph seems especially sinister, given the fact that we now know Pizzagate and the Seth Rich thing were Russian disinformation plants.

Per the Guardian:
But media watchdogs detect something more sinister about the network. OAN’s Washington team includes Jack Posobiec, once described by the New York Times as “a pro-Trump activist notorious for his amateur sleuthing into red herrings like the ‘Pizzagate’ hoax and a conspiracy theory involving the murder of a Democratic aide”.
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Aresen
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Aresen » 23 Jul 2019, 10:44

I would prefer it if the network would slightly change its name: One News America Network (ONAN).
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Warren » 23 Jul 2019, 12:05

Aresen wrote:
23 Jul 2019, 10:44
I would prefer it if the network would slightly change its name: One News America Network (ONAN).
sinful
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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 23 Jul 2019, 14:39

Fun fact: Dorothy Parker named her parakeet Onan because it kept spilling its seed.

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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Ellie » 23 Jul 2019, 15:22

Warren wrote:
23 Jul 2019, 12:05
Aresen wrote:
23 Jul 2019, 10:44
I would prefer it if the network would slightly change its name: One News America Network (ONAN).
sinful
A sin of emission.
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by JasonL » 23 Jul 2019, 15:58

Heeyooo!

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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Kolohe » 24 Jul 2019, 19:14

To be clear, Jack Posobiec isn't a Russian agent, he's just an idiot and probably a white nationalist racist.

(It's hillarious when he leans into his 'naval service expertise' because I know exactly what his sort of billet does when he was at Naval Intelligence. Not saying it's not worthwhile, but he ain't even Chloe, much less Jack Bauer)
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Taktix®
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Taktix® » 24 Jul 2019, 21:39

Kolohe wrote:
24 Jul 2019, 19:14
To be clear, Jack Posobiec isn't a Russian agent, he's just an idiot and probably a white nationalist racist.

(It's hillarious when he leans into his 'naval service expertise' because I know exactly what his sort of billet does when he was at Naval Intelligence. Not saying it's not worthwhile, but he ain't even Chloe, much less Jack Bauer)
Agreed, I only meant the stories were proven to be Russian. Posobiec was a useful idiot in this case.
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Ellie » 28 Jul 2019, 13:40

D.A. Ridgely wrote:
23 Jul 2019, 14:39
Fun fact: Dorothy Parker named her parakeet Onan because it kept spilling its seed.
I was looking at a list of 12-step meetings and discovered that the Wazata Community Church holds its Al-Anon meetings in the Onan Room.

I think I'll skip that one ...
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by lunchstealer » 28 Jul 2019, 18:45

Ellie wrote:
28 Jul 2019, 13:40
D.A. Ridgely wrote:
23 Jul 2019, 14:39
Fun fact: Dorothy Parker named her parakeet Onan because it kept spilling its seed.
I was looking at a list of 12-step meetings and discovered that the Wazata Community Church holds its Al-Anon meetings in the Onan Room.

I think I'll skip that one ...
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Taktix®
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Taktix® » 28 Jul 2019, 23:17

The Senate Intelligence Report (yes, that Republican Senate) said that Russia had achieved the capability of altering vote totals (not registration data, fucking votes) in 2016, and that Putin chose not to use it: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/25/us/p ... -ios-share

The article reports that Putin chose not to and I'm not sure if I fully buy that, but regardless, they can and will and very possibly may have changed vote totals.

Are you ready to start taking this threat seriously?
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thoreau
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by thoreau » 29 Jul 2019, 00:08

But all they ever did was troll farms.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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Jennifer
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Jennifer » 29 Jul 2019, 05:39

Taktix® wrote:
28 Jul 2019, 23:17
Are you ready to start taking this threat seriously?
The only threat a true libertarian takes seriously is the threat of a tax increase.
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by JasonL » 29 Jul 2019, 09:54

I'm not sure who you guys are talking about, since we've been talking about information cold war for a year or more. But by all means keep the jerk going.

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thoreau
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by thoreau » 29 Jul 2019, 11:35

Wait, it's old news that Russian hackers developed the capability to change vote totals?

I thought it was all just troll farms.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by JasonL » 29 Jul 2019, 12:07

thoreau wrote:Wait, it's old news that Russian hackers developed the capability to change vote totals?

I thought it was all just troll farms.
Literally only you have been saying that.

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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Warren » 29 Jul 2019, 12:19

JasonL wrote:
29 Jul 2019, 12:07
thoreau wrote:Wait, it's old news that Russian hackers developed the capability to change vote totals?

I thought it was all just troll farms.
Literally only you have been saying that.
Way too often.
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thoreau
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by thoreau » 29 Jul 2019, 12:22

Agreed. Everyone else here has repeatedly warned of the danger of Russians hacking vote totals. I am the only one who has said that it is all just troll farms. Even the Eurasians (who have always been our allies) have not said that.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Warren » 29 Jul 2019, 12:28

thoreau wrote:
29 Jul 2019, 12:22
Agreed. Everyone else here has repeatedly warned of the danger of Russians hacking vote totals. I am the only one who has said that it is all just troll farms. Even the Eurasians (who have always been our allies) have not said that.
I admire your persistence. Keep posting with this formulation for another fifteen months and perhaps your mountain of sarcasm will convince us all just in time for the election.
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