Putin on the Writs

User avatar
JasonL
Posts: 23869
Joined: 05 May 2010, 17:22

Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by JasonL » 21 Mar 2019, 15:44

Haha.

User avatar
thoreau
Posts: 27873
Joined: 06 May 2010, 12:56
Location: Back to the lab again

Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by thoreau » 21 Mar 2019, 16:30

How about Cyber Frappes? Similar sound, but more like a frappucino.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
--Mo

User avatar
Aresen
Posts: 15721
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 20:18
Location: Great White Pacific Northwest

Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Aresen » 21 Mar 2019, 16:56

thoreau wrote:
21 Mar 2019, 16:30
How about Cyber Frappes? Similar sound, but more like a frappucino.
"Cyber Frappes" suggests sitting in a darkened basement viewing porn sites.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

User avatar
lunchstealer
Posts: 17159
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:25
Location: The Local Fluff in the Local Bubble

Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by lunchstealer » 21 Mar 2019, 17:22

JasonL wrote:
21 Mar 2019, 14:44
Wanted - something that gets at "cyber cold warfare" but is way better sounding.
iWar
"The constitution is more of a BDSM agreement with a safe word." - Sandy

"Neoliberalism. Austerity. Booga booga!!!!" - JasonL

"We can't confirm rumors that Lynndie England is in the running to be Gina Haspel's personal aide." - DAR

User avatar
Taktix®
Posts: 7910
Joined: 07 May 2010, 05:29
Location: The Caribbean

Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Taktix® » 22 Mar 2019, 02:54

lunchstealer wrote:
21 Mar 2019, 17:22
JasonL wrote:
21 Mar 2019, 14:44
Wanted - something that gets at "cyber cold warfare" but is way better sounding.
iWar
Yes, or maybe eWar.

Wouldn't want to implicate Tim Apple in anything...
"Guilty as charged. Go ahead and ban me from the mall." - Ellie

User avatar
Taktix®
Posts: 7910
Joined: 07 May 2010, 05:29
Location: The Caribbean

Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Taktix® » 22 Mar 2019, 03:45

But seriously, upon reflection, I'm not trying to say that Putin is so deviously clever that he knew specifically-targeted tariffs would lead to squeezing American farmers. It's just...

We can all agree that tariffs are bad policy, right? We free marketers have railed for decades against artificial and often politically-motivated brakes on specific products and commodities because the government intervention itself causes negative distortions in the markets.

I know it's common knowledge here that, despite both parties constantly trying to take credit for good times and blame the opposition for bad times, the economy runs largely independent to the day-to-day political bullshit going on in the executive branch. I don't generally dispute that in cases of what used to pass for typical policy.

But I also know it's a lot easier to tear something apart that to build it up, and I don't think it's too untoward to assume that bad executive policy like tariffs are capable of dicking with the greater economy enough to cause real, lasting damage.

Farms being squeezed might not have been the 7th move ahead in some Russian multi-dimensional chess match, but it's certainly a plausible result of the type of distortions that tariffs cause -- economic policy that before 2016 has been unpopular with both parties for the duration of each of our lifetimes.

Tariffs are one of Trump's unique ideas among modern presidents. Trump has been taking direction from the Kremlin on topics such as the 2016 election (Helsinki) and Korean diplomatic tips (via recent Andy McCabe book), is it really that hard to imagine that when Trump was in Russia, say, during his Miss America meat market in 2013, Putin didn't give him some "pointers" to rile up the masses?

What is a border wall, if not a tariff, an impediment, on the free exchange of labor across a border?

I'm not saying Putin targeted farmers, but he's feeding Trump sabotaging policy and that fucking idiot doesn't know any better or really care (because in the end he's just a salesman) and the farm industry issues are just a symptom. Better yet, Trump gets to bequeath a bailout two bailouts and basically buy Iowa votes with our money.

And from an anti-socialist standpoint, aren't trade-specific tariffs a proto-nationalization of industries? It is, after all, an attempt by the government to produce a desired social outcome by setting the price...
"Guilty as charged. Go ahead and ban me from the mall." - Ellie

User avatar
Eric the .5b
Posts: 13411
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 16:29

Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Eric the .5b » 22 Mar 2019, 04:14

Taktix® wrote:
22 Mar 2019, 03:45
But seriously, upon reflection, I'm not trying to say that Putin is so deviously clever that he knew specifically-targeted tariffs would lead to squeezing American farmers. It's just...

We can all agree that tariffs are bad policy, right?
...
What does all that have to do with Putin/Russia?
Taktix® wrote:
22 Mar 2019, 03:45
Farms being squeezed might not have been the 7th move ahead in some Russian multi-dimensional chess match, but it's certainly a plausible result of the type of distortions that tariffs cause -- economic policy that before 2016 has been unpopular with both parties for the duration of each of our lifetimes.

Tariffs are one of Trump's unique ideas among modern presidents.
Is this an 19A0s thing where I'm forgetting a few presidents between Obama and Trump? Because the last I checked, Clinton, GWB, and Obama all hiked various tariffs. Clinton didn't even make it through his second week in office before he hiked steel tariffs. They just didn't make such public fools of themselves about doing it, despite it being as stupid as when Trump did it.
Taktix® wrote:
22 Mar 2019, 03:45
And from an anti-socialist standpoint, aren't trade-specific tariffs a proto-nationalization of industries?
In short?

No.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
Cet animal est très méchant / Quand on l'attaque il se défend.

User avatar
Eric the .5b
Posts: 13411
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 16:29

Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Eric the .5b » 22 Mar 2019, 04:31

And I'm sorry if I'm being short with you, Taktix, but I've been dealing with, among others, lefties who are absolutely married to the "we must destroy capitalism within the next decade or humanity will go extinct!" shtick. (I fully expect them all to take credit for human survival in 20 years.) My crazy bullshit tolerance is threadbare.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
Cet animal est très méchant / Quand on l'attaque il se défend.

User avatar
Warren
Posts: 26360
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:03
Location: Goat Rope MO
Contact:

Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Warren » 24 Mar 2019, 11:19

Taktix® wrote:
22 Mar 2019, 03:45
We can all agree that tariffs are bad policy, right?
right
...I don't think it's too untoward to assume that bad executive policy like tariffs are capable of dicking with the greater economy enough to cause real, lasting damage.
The economic damage of tariffs doesn't last much past the tariffs themselves. On the whole Trump is doing less economic damage than the last two guys.
Farms being squeezed might not have been the 7th move ahead in some Russian multi-dimensional chess match, but it's certainly a plausible result of the type of distortions that tariffs cause -- economic policy that before 2016 has been unpopular with both parties for the duration of each of our lifetimes.
US agriculture has been Big Farm crony capitalism ever since the New Deal, with real damage to the topsoil and waste runoff. Nothing would be better for US agriculture than for the current regime to fail, just as nothing has been better for the music than napster.
Trump has been taking direction from the Kremlin on topics such as the 2016 election...
Ha ha ha ha What won't you believe? There is ongoing and overwhelming evidence that Trump takes direction from no one.
What is a border wall, if not a tariff...
well no
an impediment, on the free exchange of labor across a border?
yes yes it is that.
I'm not saying Putin targeted farmers, but he's feeding Trump sabotaging policy and that fucking idiot doesn't know any better or really care (because in the end he's just a salesman) and the farm industry issues are just a symptom. Better yet, Trump gets to bequeath a bailout two bailouts and basically buy Iowa votes with our money.
Uhh wha?
And from an anti-socialist standpoint, aren't trade-specific tariffs a proto-nationalization of industries? It is, after all, an attempt by the government to produce a desired social outcome by setting the price...
I really wish you'd get on meds.
THIS SPACE FOR RENT

User avatar
Mo
Posts: 24379
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:08

Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Mo » 24 Mar 2019, 12:22

Warren wrote: The economic damage of tariffs doesn't last much past the tariffs themselves. On the whole Trump is doing less economic damage than the last two guys.
Smooth and/or Hawley would beg to differ. Also, we’re running deficits at levels that are typical of the depths of a recession at the peak of the business cycle. So if anything goes wrong, we have no room for counter cyclical responses. Say what you will about the deficit spending of the last two guys, but they shrunk deficits as the economy got stronger.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

User avatar
thoreau
Posts: 27873
Joined: 06 May 2010, 12:56
Location: Back to the lab again

Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by thoreau » 24 Mar 2019, 12:24

Mo wrote:
24 Mar 2019, 12:22
Also, we’re running deficits at levels that are typical of the depths of a recession at the peak of the business cycle. So if anything goes wrong, we have no room for counter cyclical responses. Say what you will about the deficit spending of the last two guys, but they shrunk deficits as the economy got stronger.
This part scares me. A lot.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
--Mo

User avatar
Jennifer
Posts: 24078
Joined: 28 Apr 2010, 14:03

Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Jennifer » 24 Mar 2019, 14:06

Taktix® wrote:
22 Mar 2019, 03:45
But seriously, upon reflection, I'm not trying to say that Putin is so deviously clever that he knew specifically-targeted tariffs would lead to squeezing American farmers. It's just...
He doesn't need to, IMO; all he needs is the generalized notion "With Trump in charge, America art fucked, which benefits my country."

It's like -- suppose you and I are in direct competition with each other, NOT interested in a "fair fight," and it is (or at least I think it is) a zero-sum competition: you can only benefit at my expense, and anything that harms you helps me. Ideally, from my perspective, what I want is for you to take your money and assets and give them to me for my benefit. But it is extremely unlikely I'll be able to convince you to do something THAT stupid, even if I have a troll farm and KGB psycho-ma-logical experts working for me.

That said: while convincing you to give me your money is difficult, convincing you to merely waste your money rather than spend or invest it wisely would be much, much easier. And from my perspective -- thinking "Every time Taktix loses, I win," so long as you waste your money, why should I care specifically HOW you waste it? Drinking or smoking your kids' college funds, taking out a HELOC to fund your next Disney vacation, diversifying your 401k into Powerball tickets ... "all" I need to do is convince you to squander your money on foolishness, but the specific details of just what damnfool things you do don't really matter to me.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

User avatar
Mo
Posts: 24379
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:08

Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Mo » 24 Mar 2019, 16:55

thoreau wrote:
Mo wrote:
24 Mar 2019, 12:22
Also, we’re running deficits at levels that are typical of the depths of a recession at the peak of the business cycle. So if anything goes wrong, we have no room for counter cyclical responses. Say what you will about the deficit spending of the last two guys, but they shrunk deficits as the economy got stronger.
This part scares me. A lot.
Throw on an inverted yield curve and welcome to flavor country.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

User avatar
Warren
Posts: 26360
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:03
Location: Goat Rope MO
Contact:

Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Warren » 24 Mar 2019, 17:52

Mo wrote:
24 Mar 2019, 12:22
Warren wrote: The economic damage of tariffs doesn't last much past the tariffs themselves. On the whole Trump is doing less economic damage than the last two guys.
Smooth and/or Hawley would beg to differ. Also, we’re running deficits at levels that are typical of the depths of a recession at the peak of the business cycle. So if anything goes wrong, we have no room for counter cyclical responses. Say what you will about the deficit spending of the last two guys, but they shrunk deficits as the economy got stronger.
That’s a good point. I haven’t been putting the deficit on the POTUS for Trump as much as much as I have for his predecessors. There hasn’t been a TARP or new spending program. The tax cuts weren’t really his thing.
THIS SPACE FOR RENT

User avatar
Mo
Posts: 24379
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:08

Putin on the Writs

Post by Mo » 24 Mar 2019, 19:14

Warren wrote:
Mo wrote:
24 Mar 2019, 12:22
Warren wrote: The economic damage of tariffs doesn't last much past the tariffs themselves. On the whole Trump is doing less economic damage than the last two guys.
Smooth and/or Hawley would beg to differ. Also, we’re running deficits at levels that are typical of the depths of a recession at the peak of the business cycle. So if anything goes wrong, we have no room for counter cyclical responses. Say what you will about the deficit spending of the last two guys, but they shrunk deficits as the economy got stronger.
That’s a good point. I haven’t been putting the deficit on the POTUS for Trump as much as much as I have for his predecessors. There hasn’t been a TARP or new spending program. The tax cuts weren’t really his thing.
The tax cuts were 100% his thing. They were his #1 priority. And the fact that he did it just by juicing up the normal bullshit is worse than a targeted program.

BTW, the fact you’re willing to handwave away Trump deficits and not do the same for his predecessors is why people think you white knight for him. On the deficit, Trump is worse than Bush and Obama qualitatively and quantitatively, full stop.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

User avatar
Warren
Posts: 26360
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:03
Location: Goat Rope MO
Contact:

Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Warren » 24 Mar 2019, 19:21

Mo wrote:
24 Mar 2019, 19:14
BTW, the fact you’re willing to handwave away Trump deficits and not do the same for his predecessors is why people think you white knight for him. On the deficit, Trump is worse than Bush and Obama qualitatively and quantitatively, full stop.
Yeah. Hmm. I think you're over-stating that.
THIS SPACE FOR RENT

User avatar
Mo
Posts: 24379
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:08

Putin on the Writs

Post by Mo » 24 Mar 2019, 19:35

Warren wrote:
Mo wrote:
24 Mar 2019, 19:14
BTW, the fact you’re willing to handwave away Trump deficits and not do the same for his predecessors is why people think you white knight for him. On the deficit, Trump is worse than Bush and Obama qualitatively and quantitatively, full stop.
Yeah. Hmm. I think you're over-stating that.
How so? TARP was temporary and, pre GWOT, so were wars. So the deficits were blown up for temporary situations* and also, because of the state of the economy, tax receipts were low. Right now tax receipts are high and the budget is blown up over random baseline permanent shit. That’s the qualitative side. Quantitatively, the deficit is higher than ever and expected to grow, assuming no recessions. So there’s no room to cut taxes or engage in counter-cyclical spending when tax receipts go down.

So once again, how am I overstating this?

* of varying merits, but you can make a good case for deficit spending to prevent a deep crash or to fight WWII, so the budgetary merits are a bit more solid. I say this as a harsh opponent of the GWOT
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

User avatar
thoreau
Posts: 27873
Joined: 06 May 2010, 12:56
Location: Back to the lab again

Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by thoreau » 24 Mar 2019, 20:38

Team Mo.

And Team Falcon.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
--Mo

User avatar
Aresen
Posts: 15721
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 20:18
Location: Great White Pacific Northwest

Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Aresen » 24 Mar 2019, 20:55

I am very unhappy with the Canadian Federal Government Budget, which projects a deficit of C$18 billion this year.

But, when I look at the projected US budget deficit if US$980 billion, I feel like a passenger on a B737 Max.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

User avatar
Warren
Posts: 26360
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:03
Location: Goat Rope MO
Contact:

Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Warren » 24 Mar 2019, 20:59

Mo wrote:
24 Mar 2019, 19:35
Warren wrote:
Mo wrote:
24 Mar 2019, 19:14
BTW, the fact you’re willing to handwave away Trump deficits and not do the same for his predecessors is why people think you white knight for him. On the deficit, Trump is worse than Bush and Obama qualitatively and quantitatively, full stop.
Yeah. Hmm. I think you're over-stating that.
How so? TARP was temporary and, pre GWOT, so were wars. So the deficits were blown up for temporary situations* and also, because of the state of the economy, tax receipts were low. Right now tax receipts are high and the budget is blown up over random baseline permanent shit. That’s the qualitative side. Quantitatively, the deficit is higher than ever and expected to grow, assuming no recessions. So there’s no room to cut taxes or engage in counter-cyclical spending when tax receipts go down.

So once again, how am I overstating this?

* of varying merits, but you can make a good case for deficit spending to prevent a deep crash or to fight WWII, so the budgetary merits are a bit more solid. I say this as a harsh opponent of the GWOT
Well. The tax cuts only became his thing after the travel ban and the wall and repealing Obama care were his thing. And it became his thing mostly on the strength of the possibility that he could get it. And congress gave it to him because tax cuts are congress' thing.
THIS SPACE FOR RENT

User avatar
Taktix®
Posts: 7910
Joined: 07 May 2010, 05:29
Location: The Caribbean

Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Taktix® » 25 Mar 2019, 01:58

Warren wrote:
24 Mar 2019, 11:19

Trump has been taking direction from the Kremlin on topics such as the 2016 election...
Ha ha ha ha What won't you believe? There is ongoing and overwhelming evidence that Trump takes direction from no one.
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/n ... s-web-luke
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... 3521571673
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... 20/580072/
https ://www.npr.org/2019/01/13/684894844/washin ... with-putin (link broken to stop the little player applet from auto-populating)
https://qz.com/1558984/trump-kim-summit ... utin-want/

I really wish you'd get on meds.
Go fuck yourself, Warren. There are probably quite a few people here who actually do have legitimate reasons for taking medication other than being diagnosed with "I-disagree-with-Warren-itis" that might not find your trite, ad hominem, dismissive joke quite so funny. I personally have never been diagnosed with any mental disorders, so until you get your PhD you can stick those meds up your ass.
"Guilty as charged. Go ahead and ban me from the mall." - Ellie

User avatar
Taktix®
Posts: 7910
Joined: 07 May 2010, 05:29
Location: The Caribbean

Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Taktix® » 25 Mar 2019, 02:11

Also, now we have Russian troops in the Western Hemisphere. I hope you are happy, comrade!

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-vene ... o3yP97LErk
"Guilty as charged. Go ahead and ban me from the mall." - Ellie

User avatar
Mo
Posts: 24379
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:08

Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Mo » 25 Mar 2019, 06:32

Warren wrote:
24 Mar 2019, 20:59
Well. The tax cuts only became his thing after the travel ban and the wall and repealing Obama care were his thing. And it became his thing mostly on the strength of the possibility that he could get it. And congress gave it to him because tax cuts are congress' thing.
Obamacare was Paul Ryan's thing. He didn't care about health care because he has no idea what health care he was providing (which is why he kept saying the bill was offering the exact opposite of what it was doing). That's aside from the fact that he spent far more time whipping support for tax cuts and after the bill passed, he kept flogging more cuts throughout 2018. But yeah, he was totally just along for the ride.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

User avatar
Warren
Posts: 26360
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:03
Location: Goat Rope MO
Contact:

Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Warren » 25 Mar 2019, 08:18

I'm stepping out.
THIS SPACE FOR RENT

User avatar
Kolohe
Posts: 13914
Joined: 06 May 2010, 10:51

Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Kolohe » 25 Mar 2019, 12:01

Taktix® wrote:
25 Mar 2019, 02:11
Also, now we have Russian troops in the Western Hemisphere. I hope you are happy, comrade!

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-vene ... o3yP97LErk
My hot take on that is that the last time the Russian's sent troops to prop up a shaky government, the Soviet Union collapsed.

''fighting an insurgency in Latin America' is a classic blunder up there (but still behind) 'fighting a land war in Asia - but since Russia can actually fight land wars in Asia, (sometimes) they got to double down on other blunders.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests