Putin on the Writs

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thoreau
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by thoreau » 19 Aug 2018, 01:25

Americans worrying about Russian forces in close proximity is like the Scottish worrying that there are English bases nearby. When you share a head of state it's all good.
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Taktix®
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Taktix® » 19 Aug 2018, 21:49

thoreau wrote:
19 Aug 2018, 01:25
Americans worrying about Russian forces in close proximity is like the Scottish worrying that there are English bases nearby. When you share a head of state it's all good.
Ahhh, I see. So those are for our protection? Like if, say, Canada attacks?

That would explain why Aresen's so nonchalant about it all...
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Taktix® » 20 Aug 2018, 14:14

Also, I would relish the chance to see someone attempt to explain away the Craig Unger book using TDS or some other pseudo-scientific nonsense...

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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Taktix® » 27 Aug 2018, 01:58

A very well-sourced, organized, polished reference on everything Trump and his being a motherfucking traitor and Winter is Here and stop playing the game of thrones and shit:

https://themoscowproject.org/
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Dangerman
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Dangerman » 28 Aug 2018, 09:53

Or it is a nice collection of rumors and connected dots paid for by www.americanprogress.org

Or it's both.

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Aresen
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Aresen » 29 Aug 2018, 00:12

Putin fired a bunch of generals:

VLADIMIR PUTIN FIRES MILITARY GENERALS AS RUSSIA LAUNCHES BIGGEST MILITARY EXERCISES IN FOUR DECADES

(About that headline, I have to ask NEWSWEEK: What other kinds of Generals did you have in mind?)

Also, as NEWSWEEK is definitely on the 'we need MOAR' side of government issues, I am amused by the lack of self-awareness of this little gem:
"The corruption in Russia is above and beyond what a normal, Western informed observer can even imagine. An oversized, all-powerful state, that is the root cause of corruption. Shuffling generals is like rearranging chairs on the Titanic," Ariel Cohen, a Russia expert and senior fellow at the Washington-based think tank Atlantic Council, told Newsweek.
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Mo » 29 Aug 2018, 02:02

Newsweek isn’t Newsweek anymore. They’re part of the IBT group with David Jang’s The Community.
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Taktix® » 29 Aug 2018, 11:06

Dangerman wrote:
28 Aug 2018, 09:53
Or it is a nice collection of rumors and connected dots paid for by www.americanprogress.org

Or it's both.
Look, I get the "attack the source" argument and all, but even taking potential bias into account, the evidence is still overwhelming. Every claim is linked to a real, actual news story that backs everything up.

I would happily provide corroborating sources from the other side if such sources existed, but they're too busy falling over themselves to get an all-expenses-paid trip to Moscow to see what's happening to our country...
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Dangerman » 29 Aug 2018, 12:32

My dude, I'll fisk it if you want, but not every claim has sources, which is why I said anything.

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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Taktix® » 29 Aug 2018, 13:04

Dangerman wrote:
29 Aug 2018, 12:32
My dude, I'll fisk it if you want, but not every claim has sources, which is why I said anything.
But waaaay more than enough claims check out that it's painfully clear something very wrong is going on here.

I would welcome a reasonable explanation for all this. I am desperate for evidence that this country is not facing the existential threat that is so clearly is facing, for a reason to enjoy diversions like movies and video games and things without feeling guilty that I'm being distracted from an ongoing war for our attention and our sanity. Please show me some proof* so that I can go back to sleeping at night instead of laying awake wondering whether I should be making arrangements to spirit my Jewish wife and children out of the country.

There is not a lot at themoscowproject.org that is particularly new to me. I've been watching it all in real time because it's all been happening right out in the open, at least the parts that occurred since the 2016 election. It's why I started giving a shit about politics again.

*(other than "the left sucks too". I know this. Among their many other faults, they fucking let this happen.)
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by JasonL » 29 Aug 2018, 14:02

I’m a wait for the investigation to wrap kinda guy. I remember the travel gate stuff having the same sort of tone and the talk about “connections”. But connections may or may not be a thing. Just wait and see.

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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Kolohe » 29 Aug 2018, 15:43

Aresen wrote:
29 Aug 2018, 00:12

(About that headline, I have to ask NEWSWEEK: What other kinds of Generals did you have in mind?).
Attorney Generals, Surgeon Generals, Inspector Generals, Postmaster Generals, Washington Generals.

Newsweek has also been on a bit of kick lately regurgitating Russian propaganda.
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Aresen » 29 Aug 2018, 15:48

Kolohe wrote:
29 Aug 2018, 15:43
Aresen wrote:
29 Aug 2018, 00:12

(About that headline, I have to ask NEWSWEEK: What other kinds of Generals did you have in mind?).
Attorney Generals, Surgeon Generals, Inspector Generals, Postmaster Generals, Washington Generals.
You left out General Foods and General Motors.
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by thoreau » 29 Aug 2018, 15:54

Chicken chef General Chiao.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Pham Nuwen » 29 Aug 2018, 17:01

General Tso! We meet again ...
Goddamn libertarian message board. Hugh Akston

leave me to my mescaline smoothie in peace, please. dhex

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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Taktix® » 10 Sep 2018, 15:30

Serious Question: If... IF it becomes clear after the 2018 midterms that Russian hackers gained access to our voting machines and set the reels, will that be enough to convince people how grave a threat we are facing?

Also, will it be clearly too fucking late by then?

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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by thoreau » 10 Sep 2018, 15:54

Tovarisch, I am wery bothered you not trusting benevolence of Mother Russia, our great ally.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
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Aresen
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Aresen » 10 Sep 2018, 16:12

Taktix® wrote:
10 Sep 2018, 15:30
Serious Question: If... IF it becomes clear after the 2018 midterms that Russian hackers gained access to our voting machines and set the reels, will that be enough to convince people how grave a threat we are facing?

Also, will it be clearly too fucking late by then?
Why wouldn't you believe that Geoff Diehl beat Elizabeth Warren by 73% to 24% in Massachusetts?
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Painboy » 10 Sep 2018, 16:24

Taktix® wrote:
10 Sep 2018, 15:30
Serious Question: If... IF it becomes clear after the 2018 midterms that Russian hackers gained access to our voting machines and set the reels, will that be enough to convince people how grave a threat we are facing?

Also, will it be clearly too fucking late by then?

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I think you are wildly overestimating both Russia's competence and threat level. For your own piece of mind I would dial down the anxiety.

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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by JasonL » 10 Sep 2018, 16:29

The threat, regardless of findings is "we are now in a an age of open info war between major powers". We should think seriously about what constitutes various threat levels, secure our voting institutions, make sure we are up to delivering significant counter strikes and so forth. We should ingore utterly troll farms and the like, but the other stuff is stuff we should have discussions about, and beyond Russia. China for one. But also everyone is going to be doing this.

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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by thoreau » 10 Sep 2018, 17:02

Taktix® wrote:
10 Sep 2018, 15:30
Serious Question: If... IF it becomes clear after the 2018 midterms that Russian hackers gained access to our voting machines and set the reels, will that be enough to convince people how grave a threat we are facing?

Also, will it be clearly too fucking late by then?

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There's a non-trivial fraction of Americans who would probably say that Russian votes for Republicans merely cancelled out the effects of illegal aliens voting for Democrats so the outcome is fair. I hope I'm wrong in that assessment.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Jennifer » 10 Sep 2018, 17:08

Painboy wrote:
10 Sep 2018, 16:24
Taktix® wrote:
10 Sep 2018, 15:30
Serious Question: If... IF it becomes clear after the 2018 midterms that Russian hackers gained access to our voting machines and set the reels, will that be enough to convince people how grave a threat we are facing?

Also, will it be clearly too fucking late by then?

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I think you are wildly overestimating both Russia's competence and threat level. For your own piece of mind I would dial down the anxiety.
By computer-hacker standards, it takes very little "competence" to break into various horribly insecure voting machines.

Here in Georgia, where votes are electronic-only with no paper backups, voters recently complained of seeing machines change their votes even as they watched.
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Taktix® » 10 Sep 2018, 18:05

Painboy wrote: I think you are wildly overestimating both Russia's competence and threat level. For your own piece of mind I would dial down the anxiety.
Thanks for the suggestion, but I fear my anxiety will not abate without any evidence of the threat level being as minimal as you say it is. Please provide some facts to back up what I contend is a dangerous degree of overconfidence in the invincibility of our election system.

In fact, the only evidence I have found is that we should be very worried.

Maryland voting machines are serviced by a company owned by a Russian oligarch: https://www.google.com/amp/www.baltimor ... y,amp.html

A sitting U.S. Senator has stated they are already in our voting rolls and machines: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/electi ... ns-n901701

Oh, and let's not forget that the entire intellengence community agrees that Russians probed and in some cases infiltrated election systems in 2016, which, by my count, was the very last election we had.

Or that this is the exact method already employed in Russia's 2012 "election" and the elections of pro-Russian puppets in Georgia and Urkrane.

Or that Republicans in the House: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... story.html and the Senate: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 884438002/
blocked funding for additional election security.

So please, if you have any actual facts to back up your assertions of all-is-wellism, other than condescending remarks about the state of my mental health, please share them...




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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Taktix® » 10 Sep 2018, 20:14

I'm sorry, I hope I don't come off as too combative. I'm just concerned we're having a sort of pre-9/11 hubristic moment here.

I think people are severely underestimating how easy it probably is to hack into our systems. Washington is nothing if not incompetent, and elected officials are absolutely clueless when it comes to technology. Russia has troll farms and if Russian bosses ONLY operate on the level of some of the tech support managers I've seen in the US, they're working their fucking asses off looking for ways to fuck us right now.

We need to go offline like a Battlestar now.

Watch the 4 states without paper ballot backups for weird shit going on (I HEREBY MAKE A PREDICTION). Election volunteers will keep each other honest with paper, but there's no way Jed from the local Elks Lodge is going to spot some sort of hacking irregularity. I'm willing to make a small embarrassment-currency wager over it.
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thoreau
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by thoreau » 10 Sep 2018, 20:29

I used to volunteer at the polls. I spent a lot of time trying to think about how a person could hack our system: paper ballots read by a scanner, results stored on a hard drive, then transmitted at the end of the day. With three separate data sources (the transmission at the end of the day, the hard drive, and the paper originals) it would be really hard for tampering to go undetected. Especially if the paper and hard drive are transported back to the elections office separately and with two sets of eyes on each of them the whole way.

That sort of system is cheap, transparent, and secure because of its redundancy and its reliance on the offline paper backup. States that aren't doing something like that are playing with fire.

"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
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