Putin on the Writs

User avatar
thoreau
Posts: 28451
Joined: 06 May 2010, 12:56
Location: Back to the lab again

Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by thoreau » 27 Sep 2019, 18:37

Romania is not exactly Russia-friendly. Even in the Communist era they weren't exactly a hotbed of pro-Russian sympathy.

Whatever he's doing in Eastern Europe, visiting Romania is hardly evidence of anything.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
--Mo

User avatar
JasonL
Posts: 24360
Joined: 05 May 2010, 17:22

Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by JasonL » 27 Sep 2019, 20:20

That’s not how you play. Get out your grease board, circle some random things draw some arrows and try again.

User avatar
Warren
Posts: 27284
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:03
Location: Goat Rope MO
Contact:

Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Warren » 27 Sep 2019, 20:31

JasonL wrote:
27 Sep 2019, 20:20
That’s not how you play. Get out your grease board, circle some random things draw some arrows and try again.
actual lol
It's dumb out there kids, keep your heads down. - JasonL

User avatar
thoreau
Posts: 28451
Joined: 06 May 2010, 12:56
Location: Back to the lab again

Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by thoreau » 27 Sep 2019, 20:46

Taktix, there is a real Russia scandal. Your version is not it. You're just making it easier for people to deny it if they want to (and they do).
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
--Mo

User avatar
Taktix®
Posts: 7980
Joined: 07 May 2010, 05:29
Location: The Caribbean

Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Taktix® » 28 Sep 2019, 11:01

Why is Bill Barr on an unannounced trip to Rome after the impeachment announcement at the same time as Russian Oligarch Dmitry Rybolovlev (the guy who bought a Trump mansion for more than double the value in the middle of the 2008 housing crash)?

Also at the same time Trump is soliciting help for his impeachment defense from the NRA, a Russian asset in 2016?

---
Capture2.PNG
Capture2.PNG (316.3 KiB) Viewed 434 times
"Guilty as charged. Go ahead and ban me from the mall." - Ellie

User avatar
Taktix®
Posts: 7980
Joined: 07 May 2010, 05:29
Location: The Caribbean

Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Taktix® » 28 Sep 2019, 11:18

thoreau wrote:
27 Sep 2019, 18:37
Romania is not exactly Russia-friendly. Even in the Communist era they weren't exactly a hotbed of pro-Russian sympathy.

Whatever he's doing in Eastern Europe, visiting Romania is hardly evidence of anything.
I'm not saying it's evidence of anything, just that it's very weird to have a strategy meeting for a U.S. presidential campaign in a country that borders Ukraine while all this Ukraine shit is going on, and especially given that Russia fucked in our 2016 election in large part over our pre-Trump Ukraine policy. Romania may not be "Russian friendly" but it's a hell of a lot easier for the FSB to work there than here.

EDIT: Trump's smartest, best people are doing a whole former-Soviet-satellite tour, or at least until Rudy had to cancel on account of a breaking dam (and no I don't think those countries are still Soviet but they're still Russian intelligence home turf).
Warren wrote:
27 Sep 2019, 20:31
JasonL wrote:
27 Sep 2019, 20:20
That’s not how you play. Get out your grease board, circle some random things draw some arrows and try again.
actual lol
You bring scorn, I bring facts.
"Guilty as charged. Go ahead and ban me from the mall." - Ellie

User avatar
Taktix®
Posts: 7980
Joined: 07 May 2010, 05:29
Location: The Caribbean

Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Taktix® » 28 Sep 2019, 13:13

Taktix® wrote:
23 Sep 2019, 21:28
Eric the .5b wrote:
23 Sep 2019, 19:51
Pham Nuwen wrote:
23 Sep 2019, 19:27
I'm not buying the violence angle.
And if we get violence, then law enforcement can earn its damn pay.

My only impeachment fear is his being acquitted, because I'm convinced that would take us right to Trump's second term.
Unless, you know, law enforcement is already in the bag for Trump, since he's made numerous plays for their loyalty like the comments about it being ok to rough up arrestees to the Kapernick kerfuffle to the Thin Blue Line Flag becoming the modern swastika...
A former New Jersey police chief standing trial for allegedly slamming a black teenager’s head into a door jamb reportedly called President Trump “the last hope for white people” before the 2016 election.
"Guilty as charged. Go ahead and ban me from the mall." - Ellie

User avatar
Aresen
Posts: 16104
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 20:18
Location: Great White Pacific Northwest

Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Aresen » 28 Sep 2019, 19:11

Taktix® wrote:
28 Sep 2019, 13:13
Taktix® wrote:
23 Sep 2019, 21:28
Eric the .5b wrote:
23 Sep 2019, 19:51
Pham Nuwen wrote:
23 Sep 2019, 19:27
I'm not buying the violence angle.
And if we get violence, then law enforcement can earn its damn pay.

My only impeachment fear is his being acquitted, because I'm convinced that would take us right to Trump's second term.
Unless, you know, law enforcement is already in the bag for Trump, since he's made numerous plays for their loyalty like the comments about it being ok to rough up arrestees to the Kapernick kerfuffle to the Thin Blue Line Flag becoming the modern swastika...
A former New Jersey police chief standing trial for allegedly slamming a black teenager’s head into a door jamb reportedly called President Trump “the last hope for white people” before the 2016 election.
I'm all vomited out and we're not even through Trump's first term.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

User avatar
Taktix®
Posts: 7980
Joined: 07 May 2010, 05:29
Location: The Caribbean

Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Taktix® » 30 Sep 2019, 11:17

It's hard to keep arguing against the fact that Trump takes orders from Putin when Putin is quite literally giving Trump orders: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKBN1WF1ET

Whether the rest of the coutry follows them remains to be seen...
"Guilty as charged. Go ahead and ban me from the mall." - Ellie

User avatar
JasonL
Posts: 24360
Joined: 05 May 2010, 17:22

Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by JasonL » 30 Sep 2019, 11:23

So the argument is any assertion Nation A makes regarding a constraint on bilateral relations Nation B is evidence that B takes orders from A?

User avatar
Warren
Posts: 27284
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:03
Location: Goat Rope MO
Contact:

Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Warren » 30 Sep 2019, 11:32

huh. Turns out it's exceptionally easy to argue that.
It's dumb out there kids, keep your heads down. - JasonL

User avatar
D.A. Ridgely
Posts: 18962
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:09
Location: The Other Side

Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 30 Sep 2019, 17:36

Sans research, I suspect there are good arguments why conversations between a sitting president and a foreign head of state would require the latter's consent to be made public. I'm certainly no fan of a broad reading of Executive Privilege, but the chilling effect of the threat of diplomatic communications being open to public scrutiny absent compelling reasons, which I hasten to add may be present here, is an otherwise bad trade-off.

User avatar
thoreau
Posts: 28451
Joined: 06 May 2010, 12:56
Location: Back to the lab again

Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by thoreau » 30 Sep 2019, 17:45

Yeah, normally I actually think these conversations should remain confidential. But if the President is asking foreign leaders to provide him with personal favors, then those parts of the conversation need to be publicized. In a Republic the head of state is not a monarch, i.e. he's not the embodiment of the state, or some person with a birthright to rule. He's a person entrusted with public duties for a fixed term, and when he tries to use his office for private benefit the public has a no-shit Need To Know. Otherwise we might as well say that Presidents are just elected Kings with term limits (at least for now).
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
--Mo

User avatar
D.A. Ridgely
Posts: 18962
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:09
Location: The Other Side

Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 30 Sep 2019, 18:08

thoreau wrote:
30 Sep 2019, 17:45
Yeah, normally I actually think these conversations should remain confidential. But if the President is asking foreign leaders to provide him with personal favors, then those parts of the conversation need to be publicized. In a Republic the head of state is not a monarch, i.e. he's not the embodiment of the state, or some person with a birthright to rule. He's a person entrusted with public duties for a fixed term, and when he tries to use his office for private benefit the public has a no-shit Need To Know. Otherwise we might as well say that Presidents are just elected Kings with term limits (at least for now).
Sure. In principle, though, I'd like a court to weigh in on such things, as I expect we'll soon see over the spate of Congressional subpoenas now being issued. There's ample prescient that Executive Privilege doesn't extend to cover commission of actual crimes, but diplomatic communications fall into a slightly higher level of presidential communications requiring safeguards and I'd like an at least theoretically non-political branch of government make those decisions.

User avatar
Aresen
Posts: 16104
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 20:18
Location: Great White Pacific Northwest

Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Aresen » 30 Sep 2019, 19:59

D.A. Ridgely wrote:
30 Sep 2019, 18:08
There's ample prescient that Executive Privilege doesn't extend to cover commission of actual crimes,
I'm gonna pretend that's not autocorrect and yield to your foreknowledge of such things.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

User avatar
D.A. Ridgely
Posts: 18962
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:09
Location: The Other Side

Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 30 Sep 2019, 22:33

Aresen wrote:
30 Sep 2019, 19:59
D.A. Ridgely wrote:
30 Sep 2019, 18:08
There's ample prescient that Executive Privilege doesn't extend to cover commission of actual crimes,
I'm gonna pretend that's not autocorrect and yield to your foreknowledge of such things.
And therein lies one of the many benefits of a liberal arts education; namely, the benefit of the doubt!

User avatar
Taktix®
Posts: 7980
Joined: 07 May 2010, 05:29
Location: The Caribbean

Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Taktix® » 01 Oct 2019, 00:59

JasonL wrote:
30 Sep 2019, 11:23
So the argument is any assertion Nation A makes regarding a constraint on bilateral relations Nation B is evidence that B takes orders from A?
Nope, I'm talking about Russia and the United States, not hypothetical nations A and B, and I'm pointing to actual events that support my claims, not reducing my debate opponent's argument to a vague, context-free straw figure against which I would fail to even make an argument other than, like, "question mark".
Warren wrote:
30 Sep 2019, 11:32
huh. Turns out it's exceptionally easy to argue that.
I'm loving this live sigging of JasonL posts. You should go on tour...
"Guilty as charged. Go ahead and ban me from the mall." - Ellie

User avatar
Taktix®
Posts: 7980
Joined: 07 May 2010, 05:29
Location: The Caribbean

Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Taktix® » 01 Oct 2019, 02:28

Also, I wasn't far off in pointing out Trumpies are quite the jetsetters. Bill Barr is going around, personally, trying to find shit in Australia of all places, to discredit the Mueller investigation: https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... 7IV0OSwa1y
Attorney General William P. Barr has held private meetings overseas with foreign intelligence officials seeking their help in a Justice Department inquiry that President Trump hopes will discredit U.S. intelligence agencies’ examination of possible connections between Russia and members of the Trump campaign during the 2016 election, according to people familiar with the matter.
The U.S. Attorney General is personally going around to other countries to help cover up Russia's election meddling. Trump withheld arms (Javelins, the U.S.'s finest anti-tank weapons) and support for favors from Ukraine, who is currently in a shooting war with Russia (13,000 human beings dead since 2014 in this ongoing conflict). Trump has been urging Ukraine to make peace with Russia, who started an aggressive war (the first naked conquering of European soil since WWII) and currently occupies Crimea and parts of eastern Ukraine, because it's the first step toward lifting U.S. sanctions imposed on Russia in response to the 2014 invasion of Crimea. It's always been in part about Ukraine. Paul Manafort, Trump's campaign manager and Trump Tower meeting attendee who is credited with changing the GOP platform to adopt a more pro-Russian, anti-Ukraine stance, was working for Ukraine's Kremlin puppet Yanukovych in 2014 (and is in jail for not reporting his income from said job), and Manafort even blew up his plea deal to protect his connections... from... Russia! Rex Tillerson, who made shady oil deals with Russia, crippled our diplomatic capacity, especially in Europe. Trump is scaring the shit out of other NATO members, which is Putin's biggest threat. Trump has lifted sanctions on Oleg Deripaska, one of the key figures in funding the troll farms that attacked us in 2016.

Oh, and the part I was least sure about, that maybe Russia is trying to get Trump to fuck with one of the USA's biggest strengths, the breadbasket of the world, has been confirmed by the fact that:
A. Russia is now the world's largest wheat exporter since 2016, and
B. Trump's trade war with China, which he created on his own accord, has caused the US to lose billions in Chinese wheat and soy contracts that are now being filled by, you guessed it, Russia!
SOURCE FOR THE PREVIOUS STATEMENTS, YOU SHOULD TRY IT SOME TIME :)

And that'd be leaving out the fact that for the first time in the 243 years of our fucking country a foreign adversary (if not enemy) heavily invested and interfered in our presidential election and there's little-to-nothing being done to stop them from doing it again in 2020, and for the benefit of no one but Trump. Not both sides, not Democrats, but for Trump and Trump alone.

How more "working for Russia" can this administration possibly get?!?
"Guilty as charged. Go ahead and ban me from the mall." - Ellie

User avatar
JasonL
Posts: 24360
Joined: 05 May 2010, 17:22

Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by JasonL » 01 Oct 2019, 10:15

You are posting things as evidence that do not support your claim in any way because they are totally normal assertions between nations in dispute. Like your “turns out I’m not the only one who thinks Russia intentionally wrecked US agriculture”, then posting a link that said absolutely nothing of the sort nor even hinted at it.
Last edited by JasonL on 01 Oct 2019, 11:39, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
JasonL
Posts: 24360
Joined: 05 May 2010, 17:22

Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by JasonL » 01 Oct 2019, 10:17

Haha has been confirmed- you keep using that phrase ...

User avatar
Warren
Posts: 27284
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:03
Location: Goat Rope MO
Contact:

Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Warren » 01 Oct 2019, 10:37

JasonL wrote:
01 Oct 2019, 10:17
Haha has been confirmed- you keep using that phrase ...
Don't you even look at your own posts? You need to clean up your tags a couple posts up.
It's dumb out there kids, keep your heads down. - JasonL

User avatar
Taktix®
Posts: 7980
Joined: 07 May 2010, 05:29
Location: The Caribbean

Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Taktix® » 07 Oct 2019, 19:35

JasonL wrote:
01 Oct 2019, 10:15
You are posting things as evidence that do not support your claim in any way because they are totally normal assertions between nations in dispute. Like your “turns out I’m not the only one who thinks Russia intentionally wrecked US agriculture”, then posting a link that said absolutely nothing of the sort nor even hinted at it.
-Russia puts orange man in office.

-Orange man hurts American farmers by taking away their foodstuffs markets by starting a wholly-unnecessary trade war.

-Russia takes up said share of foodstuffs market.

I've posted proof of each of these three statements. (Jason is referring to the post in support of the third statement, if anyone is keeping count).
"Guilty as charged. Go ahead and ban me from the mall." - Ellie

User avatar
Taktix®
Posts: 7980
Joined: 07 May 2010, 05:29
Location: The Caribbean

Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Taktix® » 07 Oct 2019, 20:07

Another day, another treaty with Russia that Trump inexplicably withdrew from:
Screenshot_2019-10-07-18-58-18-1.png
Source: https://t.co/Zqst365U4J?amp=1
Screenshot_2019-10-07-18-58-18-1.png (151.91 KiB) Viewed 242 times
Is this enough?

How about our blessing for Turkey to invade kurdish northern Syria? The move was so sudden that Turkey has already begun bombing the border, before U.S. troops have fully withdrawn: https://www.timesofisrael.com/turkey-st ... ut-report/

Is putting our soldiers in harm's way, leaving our strategic allies to be slaughtered, giving the 100k ISIS fighters in camps in northern Syria a window to escape, without even notifying the Pentagon, is that enough to convince you that Trump is not working for US? That he working for "his" clients like Erdogan and Jong-il and, yes, Putin?
"Guilty as charged. Go ahead and ban me from the mall." - Ellie

User avatar
JasonL
Posts: 24360
Joined: 05 May 2010, 17:22

Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by JasonL » 08 Oct 2019, 12:21

Taktix<img src= wrote:
">[quote="Taktix"]
JasonL wrote:
01 Oct 2019, 10:15
You are posting things as evidence that do not support your claim in any way because they are totally normal assertions between nations in dispute. Like your “turns out I’m not the only one who thinks Russia intentionally wrecked US agriculture”, then posting a link that said absolutely nothing of the sort nor even hinted at it.
-Russia puts orange man in office.

-Orange man hurts American farmers by taking away their foodstuffs markets by starting a wholly-unnecessary trade war.

-Russia takes up said share of foodstuffs market.

I've posted proof of each of these three statements. (Jason is referring to the post in support of the third statement, if anyone is keeping count).
HE WENT INTO OFFICE SAYING WE NEED TARIFFS. THATS WHAT HE WAS ELECTED TO DO