Putin on the Writs

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Hugh Akston
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Hugh Akston » 08 Jun 2019, 02:03

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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Taktix® » 15 Jun 2019, 16:55

Is this not evidently an active cyber war?

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/15/us/p ... -grid.html
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Taktix®
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Taktix® » 16 Jun 2019, 09:15

The intelligence community doesn't trust Trump with secrets because they think he's in Russia's pocket: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... ia-848695/

And I'm the crazy one. Right.
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Dangerman
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Dangerman » 16 Jun 2019, 11:16

That second article is just a restatement of the NYT piece with no new reporting.

Yeah, you seem a little overeager.

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Painboy
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Painboy » 16 Jun 2019, 14:56

Taktix® wrote:
16 Jun 2019, 09:15
The intelligence community doesn't trust Trump with secrets because they think he's in Russia's pocket: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... ia-848695/

And I'm the crazy one. Right.
No they just don't brief him on the details because he's been shown to be a fucking blabbermouth.
The administration declined to describe specific actions it was taking under the new authorities, which were granted separately by the White House and Congress last year to United States Cyber Command, the arm of the Pentagon that runs the military’s offensive and defensive operations in the online world.
They authorized it. He was certainly made aware of it. Just not the specifics. If anything it's a point against the idea Trump is some kind of Russian patsy. Otherwise why would he allow it to go forward?

And as always the people involved in this are going to make everything sound far more dangerous than things actually are since their budgets are determined by how important their department sounds.

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Mo
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Mo » 16 Jun 2019, 16:12

Seems odd to talk to the NYT if you’re worried about the president blabbing. I suspect they’re fine with the general thrust being public, otherwise why leak. The reason you leak is so that the president can’t cancel the program.
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by thoreau » 16 Jun 2019, 16:13

Mo wrote:
16 Jun 2019, 16:12
Seems odd to talk to the NYT if you’re worried about the president blabbing. I suspect they’re fine with the general thrust being public, otherwise why leak. The reason you leak is so that the president can’t cancel the program.
This.
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Jennifer » 16 Jun 2019, 17:56

Mo wrote:
16 Jun 2019, 16:12
Seems odd to talk to the NYT if you’re worried about the president blabbing. I suspect they’re fine with the general thrust being public, otherwise why leak. The reason you leak is so that the president can’t cancel the program.
Where Trump is concerned, I don't see anything contradictory there -- "Everyone knows the gist of it, but we don't trust Trump with the details because he might spill them to our enemies."

It's like, imagine this were early 1944 -- everybody knows the Allies will attempt to invade Europe at some point, but we don't want the Axis to know "We'll be landing at Normandy on the morning of June 6." And if high military leaders refused to let FDR in on that specific detail for fear he'd spill the beans -- yeah, I'd say that alone suggests "This guy is NOT fit to be the POTUS and military Commander-in-Chief."
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Aresen » 16 Jun 2019, 18:18

Jennifer wrote:
16 Jun 2019, 17:56
Mo wrote:
16 Jun 2019, 16:12
Seems odd to talk to the NYT if you’re worried about the president blabbing. I suspect they’re fine with the general thrust being public, otherwise why leak. The reason you leak is so that the president can’t cancel the program.
Where Trump is concerned, I don't see anything contradictory there -- "Everyone knows the gist of it, but we don't trust Trump with the details because he might spill them to our enemies."

It's like, imagine this were early 1944 -- everybody knows the Allies will attempt to invade Europe at some point, but we don't want the Axis to know "We'll be landing at Normandy on the morning of June 6." And if high military leaders refused to let FDR in on that specific detail for fear he'd spill the beans -- yeah, I'd say that alone suggests "This guy is NOT fit to be the POTUS and military Commander-in-Chief."
There is a long-standing story that FDR was taken off the list of people to be informed of the MAGIC intercepts prior to Pearl Harbor for that reason. It was dramatized in the movie Tora! Tora! Tora!
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Ellie » 16 Jun 2019, 18:24

Taktix® wrote:
15 Jun 2019, 16:55
Is this not evidently an active cyber war?

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/15/us/p ... -grid.html
If Trump is in Russia's pocket, though, wouldn't we NOT be attacking them? Genuine question.
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Jennifer » 16 Jun 2019, 18:44

Ellie wrote:
16 Jun 2019, 18:24
Taktix® wrote:
15 Jun 2019, 16:55
Is this not evidently an active cyber war?

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/15/us/p ... -grid.html
If Trump is in Russia's pocket, though, wouldn't we NOT be attacking them? Genuine question.
My guess is no, because of the bureaucratic inertia of the "career" non-elected federal employees (or the "Deep State," according to Trumpster conspiracy theorists). All those people working for the military, plus the CIA, FBI, and all the other civilian jobs netting a fedgov paycheck ... there's all kinds of programs and missions going on which predate Trump and even Obama, and while of course I don't know the specifics of how all those agencies operate, I rather doubt that every single thing they do has to be renegotiated and personally re-approved every time the US gets a new president.

IOW: no, it's not contradictory that various US agencies are "dealing with" Russia, while the current POTUS and many of his closest current or former advisors, nepotism hires and the like have unseemly relationships with Putin and the Russians.
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Taktix® » 16 Jun 2019, 23:19

Ellie wrote:
16 Jun 2019, 18:24
Taktix® wrote:
15 Jun 2019, 16:55
Is this not evidently an active cyber war?

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/15/us/p ... -grid.html
If Trump is in Russia's pocket, though, wouldn't we NOT be attacking them? Genuine question.
Trump didn't know and lost his shit when he found out.

We're not attacking Russia in any way Trump can control (sanction foot dragging, for example), but it looks like these cyber attacks were conducted or at least ordered largely without Trump's knowledge. Once Trump found out (Saturday evening) he took to twitter to accuse the NYT of treason for publishing the story that Trump was kept in the dark about these cyber attacks. They're doing it independently, and his incompetence is the only barrier to his managing these operations away.

Lest we forget, it was Trump himself in Helinski who echoed Putin's proposed solution to the 2016 election "irregularities," which was to form a joint Russian-US cyber crime intelligence sharing task force...
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Taktix® » 16 Jun 2019, 23:22

Dangerman wrote:
16 Jun 2019, 11:16
That second article is just a restatement of the NYT piece with no new reporting.

Yeah, you seem a little overeager.
Sorry for trying to a find a link without a paywall for you guys.

Of course I'm referring to the NYT report that stated the intelligence community and, by extension, our cyber warfare armed forces are working independently of the POTUS with all the dangerous chain of command issues that fact represents. Let's not lose that point whilst criticizing my delivery.
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by thoreau » 16 Jun 2019, 23:41

I'm honestly not so thrilled with the idea of the US planting malware in the Russian electric grid. We shouldn't be escalating.
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Aresen » 16 Jun 2019, 23:43

thoreau wrote:
16 Jun 2019, 23:41
I'm honestly not so thrilled with the idea of the US planting malware in the Russian electric grid. We shouldn't be escalating.
Considering the reputation of Russian infrastructure, malware on their electrical grid might be an upgrade.
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Taktix® » 17 Jun 2019, 19:13

Actual election fucking: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... y2lLHdnWbi

If you mess with the voter rolls on election day, you can cause actual votes to not be cast. Durham is a majority black county and there have been security questions surrounding VR Systems since 2016.
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by thoreau » 17 Jun 2019, 19:21

To be fair, the article doesn't make it clear whether the election-day malfunctions were due to Russian hacking of the vendor, or were just normal malfunctions and the Russian efforts were ineffective.

But this is one of those things where (1) we shouldn't find out the hard way (i.e. elections should be more analog and less digital) and (2) even if the Russian efforts were ineffective, public officials should not be dragging their feet on anything related to election security, because we know what they're trying. I mean, nobody responds to a failed burglary by getting rid of their alarm system.

The fact that the Trump administration has been so nonchalant about election security tells us that, at a minimum, they are placing personal interests over duty to the country, which is an unacceptable way to run a government. Good systems align officials' self-interest with their job duties. Corruption festers when they are not aligned.

And now everyone will tell me that this is no big deal at all. To which I say this: Idi nahui.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Aresen » 17 Jun 2019, 19:28

Of all the methods of tampering with an election result, I think tampering with the voter rolls is the most insidious and damaging - and I include the 'you are a convicted felon, so you may never vote again' kind of tampering in that.
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by thoreau » 17 Jun 2019, 19:37

Don't say "insidious." It makes you sound conspiratorial and then we can't take you seriously anymore.

I, for one, believe that everything is absolutely fine. Because I want people to take me seriously. It's all great. People tell me, great people, they tell me things are just amazing. Bigly.

There, now I'm respectable.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Jennifer » 17 Jun 2019, 20:00

If you try to do something bad but your efforts fail, that's exactly the same as if you never tried doing anything bad at all, and it's ludicrous for anyone to pretend otherwise.

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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by thoreau » 17 Jun 2019, 20:23

If I know that somebody attempted a crime that could have hurt my rival and benefited me, there's no need to support any efforts to prevent them from attempting it again. And seeing anything corrupt in this just means that you're some sort of crazy person.

But, as I think about it. I shouldn't characterize any of this as a crime, as I don't know enough to say if this sort of hacking is illegal. It probably isn't.

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"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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Jennifer
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Jennifer » 17 Jun 2019, 20:28

thoreau wrote:
17 Jun 2019, 20:23
If I know that somebody attempted a crime that could have hurt my rival and benefited me, there's no need to support any efforts to prevent them from attempting it again. And seeing anything corrupt in this just means that you're some sort of crazy person.
And if you openly admit that "I think I'd take it" and "there's nothing wrong with listening" if a semihostile foreign nation offered you dirt on this rival, that's okay, If anything, you should be admired for your refreshing honesty in the matter.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Taktix® » 18 Jun 2019, 01:51

thoreau wrote:
17 Jun 2019, 19:21
To be fair, the article doesn't make it clear whether the election-day malfunctions were due to Russian hacking of the vendor, or were just normal malfunctions and the Russian efforts were ineffective.

But this is one of those things where (1) we shouldn't find out the hard way (i.e. elections should be more analog and less digital) and (2) even if the Russian efforts were ineffective, public officials should not be dragging their feet on anything related to election security, because we know what they're trying. I mean, nobody responds to a failed burglary by getting rid of their alarm system.

The fact that the Trump administration has been so nonchalant about election security tells us that, at a minimum, they are placing personal interests over duty to the country, which is an unacceptable way to run a government. Good systems align officials' self-interest with their job duties. Corruption festers when they are not aligned.

And now everyone will tell me that this is no big deal at all. To which I say this: Idi nahui.
Nope. VR Systems is most definitely the company referenced in the Mueller report as having been hacked by Russian intelligence: https://theintercept.com/2018/07/13/a-s ... otherwise/

More Sources: https://www.washingtonpost.com/investig ... 5cae2b344f

According to Politico, people from the VR Systems main office in Tallahassee, FL were remoting in to NC election systems mere hours before the 2016 election, and that might have left those systems vulnerable: https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/ ... 16-1505582

But I'm just crazy person that wants to install Hillary or something...
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by thoreau » 18 Jun 2019, 02:07

But all they did was troll farms. Everyone knows that.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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Re: Putin on the Writs

Post by Taktix® » 20 Jun 2019, 09:29

39 States
We only have 50.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... LaP8AfpMHU

But don't mind me I'm a CrAzY pErSoN!
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