Speaking in tongues (the "learning languages" thread)

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Jadagul
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Re: Speaking in tongues (the "learning languages" thread)

Post by Jadagul » 02 May 2017, 16:31

Jennifer wrote:
Jadagul wrote:My understanding is that the duolingo people don't think they've come up with a good way to handle the family of writing systems that includes Chinese and Japanese. At least that was the explanation last time I tried to do that.
Something I've long been mildly curious about: what do such non-alphabetic written languages do for handling organization and filing, since "alphabetical order" isn't an option?
There are apparently a bunch of approaches. The one I'm familiar with is organization by "radical" (roughly speaking, the primary subcharacter) and sometimes by number of strokes.

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Mo
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Re: Speaking in tongues (the "learning languages" thread)

Post by Mo » 02 May 2017, 17:07

Also, sometimes by pinyin (basically the Romanization)
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Mo
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Re: Speaking in tongues (the "learning languages" thread)

Post by Mo » 02 May 2017, 17:09

Jadagul wrote:
Jennifer wrote:
Jadagul wrote:My understanding is that the duolingo people don't think they've come up with a good way to handle the family of writing systems that includes Chinese and Japanese. At least that was the explanation last time I tried to do that.
Something I've long been mildly curious about: what do such non-alphabetic written languages do for handling organization and filing, since "alphabetical order" isn't an option?
There are apparently a bunch of approaches. The one I'm familiar with is organization by "radical" (roughly speaking, the primary subcharacter) and sometimes by number of strokes.
That's interesting, but it seems like a dictionary is quite possibly the worst place to organize words semantically. Like, I have no fucking clue what this means, is it about plants or about animals?
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Highway
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Re: Speaking in tongues (the "learning languages" thread)

Post by Highway » 02 May 2017, 18:28

Japanese orders either by starting syllable (based on a grid, such as seen here or the older iroha system) or by radical and number of strokes.

Semantic dictionaries seem to be an old thing that is rarely used anymore.
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Jadagul
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Re: Speaking in tongues (the "learning languages" thread)

Post by Jadagul » 02 May 2017, 19:21

At a guess, semantic dictionaries make more sense when (1) they're short, and (2) you're using them to compose rather than to look up. "Shit, what was the character for 'swan' again?"

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Sandy
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Re: Speaking in tongues (the "learning languages" thread)

Post by Sandy » 02 May 2017, 22:28

Jadagul wrote:At a guess, semantic dictionaries make more sense when (1) they're short, and (2) you're using them to compose rather than to look up. "Shit, what was the character for 'swan' again?"
From what I understand, this is still kind of common. It's hard to memorize all the pictographs unless you practice them every day, so I've had Japanese friends tell me, for example, that they frequently forget the Kanji and end up spelling things phonetically. So a common use case may be looking up the word you know but forgot how to write.
Hindu is the cricket of religions. You can observe it for years, you can have enthusiasts try to explain it to you, and it's still baffling. - Warren

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JD
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Re: Speaking in tongues (the "learning languages" thread)

Post by JD » 01 Oct 2017, 15:06

English learners often seem to be confused by the verb to get, and I think I've realized why - it has a huge number of uses. Just off the top of my head...

To become: "He gets mad when you say that."

To obtain or fetch: "Can I get you anything from the store?"

To begin: "Let's get moving."
but only with verbs of motion! "Get moving" sounds fine; "get doing your homework" sounds really strange.

To arrive: "I will telephone you when I get there."

And sometimes as a more general verb of motion, particularly when paired with a preposition: "Get over to the dock", or "It is time for us to get up", or "I could not get into the locked briefcase."

No wonder learners so often get confused and use it wrong.

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JD
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Re: Speaking in tongues (the "learning languages" thread)

Post by JD » 05 Nov 2017, 22:27

Duolingo still does not have Mandarin or Finnish, but it does have Welsh and Turkish. I might try Turkish or Korean after I finish up French; I'm interested in learning a language that is very different from any Western European one. There is apparently a community that keeps clamoring for Finnish, so I hope it comes around soon.

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Fin Fang Foom
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Re: Speaking in tongues (the "learning languages" thread)

Post by Fin Fang Foom » 11 Nov 2017, 11:46

JD wrote:
05 Nov 2017, 22:27
Duolingo still does not have Mandarin or Finnish, but it does have Welsh and Turkish. I might try Turkish or Korean after I finish up French; I'm interested in learning a language that is very different from any Western European one. There is apparently a community that keeps clamoring for Finnish, so I hope it comes around soon.
Per the incubator page, Mandarin is coming, probably soon, maybe before the end of the year.
Saudi Arabia is doing something potentially harmful to America? Oh, hell. Does that mean we're going to invade Iraq again? - Jennifer

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