Baq to Iraq

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Aresen
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Re: Baq to Iraq

Post by Aresen » 17 Nov 2015, 11:43

thoreau wrote:An account of interviews with ISIS recruits:

http://www.thenation.com/article/what-i ... prisoners/

Apparently they don't even know what sort of theology ISIS subscribes to, let alone the theology advocated by other Muslim clerics. Mostly they see themselves as protecting their people.
No surprise that the grunts, be they True Believers or just Stalwart Defenders of the Nation/Faith/People, really don't know what the Great Leader says. I am quite sure that interviews with GI Joe, Ishi Takahara, Ivan Ivanovich or Horst Kraut ca. 1943 would have revealed similar results.
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JD
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Re: Baq to Iraq

Post by JD » 17 Nov 2015, 11:54

Aresen wrote:No surprise that the grunts, be they True Believers or just Stalwart Defenders of the Nation/Faith/People, really don't know what the Great Leader says. I am quite sure that interviews with GI Joe, Ishi Takahara, Ivan Ivanovich or Horst Kraut ca. 1943 would have revealed similar results.
It's the same thing everywhere. Most people, whether they are American or Iraqi or French or Russian, Christian or Muslim or Jewish or atheist, are not philosophers or ideologues. They have a worldview, which is affected by their religion, nation, and culture, but mostly they just want to live a good life. This observation is not new:
Göring: Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship.

Gilbert: There is one difference. In a democracy, the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars.

Göring: Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.
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Painboy
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Re: Baq to Iraq

Post by Painboy » 17 Nov 2015, 12:40

thoreau wrote:An account of interviews with ISIS recruits:

http://www.thenation.com/article/what-i ... prisoners/

Apparently they don't even know what sort of theology ISIS subscribes to, let alone the theology advocated by other Muslim clerics. Mostly they see themselves as protecting their people.
Yep just following orders. Just really wanted to help. Had no idea where the train went to.

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Re: Baq to Iraq

Post by thoreau » 17 Nov 2015, 12:56

Oh, I'm sure they understand the violence part. It's the ideology that they're apparently fuzzy on. "We're killing them because we're mad at...someone? About something? I think it was the People's Front of Syria. Or maybe the Romans? Not sure. Anyway, gotta go kill someone."
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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: Baq to Iraq

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 17 Nov 2015, 13:07

Basically, the region wants the U.S. and Europe to leave, never mind what the practical results of that departure might be, so they can go back to fighting with each other over ethnic and religious differences.

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Re: Baq to Iraq

Post by Hugh Akston » 17 Nov 2015, 13:14

D.A. Ridgely wrote:Basically, the region wants the U.S. and Europe to leave, never mind what the practical results of that departure might be, so they can go back to fighting with each other over ethnic and religious differences.
That is also what I want. I...you guys I might be a terrorist?
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Re: Baq to Iraq

Post by Aresen » 17 Nov 2015, 13:15

Hugh Akston wrote:
D.A. Ridgely wrote:Basically, the region wants the U.S. and Europe to leave, never mind what the practical results of that departure might be, so they can go back to fighting with each other over ethnic and religious differences.
That is also what I want. I...you guys I might be a terrorist?
No doubt about it.
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Re: Baq to Iraq

Post by Aresen » 17 Nov 2015, 13:16

JD wrote:
Aresen wrote:No surprise that the grunts, be they True Believers or just Stalwart Defenders of the Nation/Faith/People, really don't know what the Great Leader says. I am quite sure that interviews with GI Joe, Ishi Takahara, Ivan Ivanovich or Horst Kraut ca. 1943 would have revealed similar results.
It's the same thing everywhere. Most people, whether they are American or Iraqi or French or Russian, Christian or Muslim or Jewish or atheist, are not philosophers or ideologues. They have a worldview, which is affected by their religion, nation, and culture, but mostly they just want to live a good life. This observation is not new:
Göring: Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship.

Gilbert: There is one difference. In a democracy, the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars.

Göring: Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.
I remember that quote.

It used to be cited as an example of how perfidious and cynical the Nazis were.
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Re: Baq to Iraq

Post by Taktix® » 17 Nov 2015, 13:20

Aresen wrote:
Hugh Akston wrote:
D.A. Ridgely wrote:Basically, the region wants the U.S. and Europe to leave, never mind what the practical results of that departure might be, so they can go back to fighting with each other over ethnic and religious differences.
That is also what I want. I...you guys I might be a terrorist?
No doubt about it.
*tugs lapel*

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Re: Baq to Iraq

Post by dbcooper » 18 Nov 2015, 04:51

Accuracy in reporting:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... ia=FB_Page
Putin’s air force just used its nuclear bombers to lay waste to the capital of the ‘Islamic State.’

...

“During a massive airstrike today, 14 important ISIL targets were destroyed by 34 air-launched cruise missiles,” Gerasimov said, using an alternative acronym for the terror army. “The targets destroyed include command posts that were used to coordinate ISIL activities in the provinces of Idlib and Aleppo, munition and supply depots in the northwestern part of Syria.”

Idlib and Aleppo are not ISIS strongholds. Indeed, U.S.-backed rebels hold much of both provinces. Russia has maintained all along that its roughly six-week-old intervention in Syria is aimed at defeating ISIS, but in fact many Russian air and missile strikes have hit rebel groups that oppose Syrian President Bashar al-Assad and ISIS.
Slip inside a sleeping bag.

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Re: Baq to Iraq

Post by Aresen » 30 Nov 2015, 10:51

Glad you guys were around to help us out, but you might become Muslim terrorists.
The phone calls in the past week were tearful. I spoke to two Iraqis, former colleagues who had risked their lives for Americans, to tell them I doubted they would ever be welcomed in my country. As France mourned murders by Islamist terrorists, and US politicians thousands of miles away spewed anti-refugee rhetoric, I realised my friends probably had no friends in Washington.

For years after the 2003 invasion, Americans relied on Iraqis to navigate a country whose terrain we barely knew and whose sectarian loyalties it was vital to understand.

Journalists could not have survived without them. Neither could the troops, aid workers or diplomats. The goodwill of those caught in the middle of these war zones — whether in Iraq or now perhaps in Syria — allowed us to stay safe and do our jobs.

The men I knew had been translators and drivers for the Chicago Tribune, then my employer. They reported through mortar attacks, even a car bomb. Then Sinan Adhem and Nadeem Majeed decided they wanted to live in the US. They applied 10 years ago for visas. As they waited, they became fathers, perfected their English and found better jobs. Sinan is now a security analyst for the UN. Nadeem works for Nissan Motors. Both live in Baghdad.

Last year, both Sinan and Nadeem received emails from the US Citizenship and Immigration Services stating that they could not be trusted. No one disputed they had presented all the proper papers or that the visa applications were credible. Yet form letters dismissed Sinan, then Nadeem, with vague finality: “Denied as a matter of discretion for security-related reasons.”
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Re: Baq to Iraq

Post by Hugh Akston » 30 Nov 2015, 11:09

That sounds about right. The US has a pretty consistent history of hanging local collaborators out to dry after they are no longer useful.
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Re: Baq to Iraq

Post by lunchstealer » 30 Nov 2015, 16:34

Hugh Akston wrote:That sounds about right. The US has a pretty consistent history of hanging local collaborators out to dry after they are no longer useful.
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Re: Baq to Iraq

Post by Hugh Akston » 01 Dec 2015, 17:01

The US is sending special forces into Iraq
The Pentagon chief said the new deployment of this "specialized expeditionary targeting force" was being carried out in coordination with the government of Iraq and would aid Iraqi government security forces and Kurdish peshmerga forces.

"These special operators will over time be able to conduct raids, free hostages, gather intelligence, and capture ISIL leaders," Carter told the U.S. House of Representatives Armed Services Committee.

"This force will also be in a position to conduct unilateral operations into Syria," he added.
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Re: Baq to Iraq

Post by Painboy » 01 Dec 2015, 17:11

Hugh Akston wrote:The US is sending special forces into Iraq
The Pentagon chief said the new deployment of this "specialized expeditionary targeting force" was being carried out in coordination with the government of Iraq and would aid Iraqi government security forces and Kurdish peshmerga forces.

"These special operators will over time be able to conduct raids, free hostages, gather intelligence, and capture ISIL leaders," Carter told the U.S. House of Representatives Armed Services Committee.

"This force will also be in a position to conduct unilateral operations into Syria," he added.
"We are still not sending boots on the ground. They will be equipped with a new kind of padded foot container, so not boots at all."

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Re: Baq to Iraq

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 01 Dec 2015, 20:34

Painboy wrote:
Hugh Akston wrote:The US is sending special forces into Iraq
The Pentagon chief said the new deployment of this "specialized expeditionary targeting force" was being carried out in coordination with the government of Iraq and would aid Iraqi government security forces and Kurdish peshmerga forces.

"These special operators will over time be able to conduct raids, free hostages, gather intelligence, and capture ISIL leaders," Carter told the U.S. House of Representatives Armed Services Committee.

"This force will also be in a position to conduct unilateral operations into Syria," he added.
"We are still not sending boots on the ground. They will be equipped with a new kind of padded foot container, so not boots at all."
Hoverboards.

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Re: Baq to Iraq

Post by Taktix® » 02 Dec 2015, 00:29

Great final thirds of a trilogy have great names, so:

Gulf War III:____________________
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Re: Baq to Iraq

Post by Aresen » 02 Dec 2015, 00:31

Taktix® wrote:Great final thirds of a trilogy have great names, so:

Gulf War III:____________________
Gulf War III: The Return of the Majid
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Re: Baq to Iraq

Post by thoreau » 02 Dec 2015, 00:44

Taktix® wrote:Great final thirds of a trilogy have great names, so:

Gulf War III:____________________
"We Swear This Is The Last Crusade"
"The Barack Ultimatum"
"The Jihadi Rises"
"The Guy Who Kicked The Hornet's Nest"
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
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Re: Baq to Iraq

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 02 Dec 2015, 01:16

Gulf War III: Part 1

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Re: Baq to Iraq

Post by Hugh Akston » 18 Apr 2016, 16:48

You guys I'm running out of clever ways to express that this keeps happening
The United States will send approximately 200 additional troops to Iraq and allow U.S. advisers to move closer to the front lines, the Pentagon said Monday, as the Obama administration embraces new measures to intensify its campaign against the Islamic State.
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Re: Baq to Iraq

Post by Hugh Akston » 30 Jun 2016, 10:45

Just so I'm clear, the Ataturk airport attack is the bad kind of violence, but this is the good kind of violence, right?
Iraqi commanders said Thursday that Islamic State group fighters fleeing their once emblematic bastion of Fallujah had taken a heavy toll from strikes by both Iraqi and US-led coalition aircraft.

They said at least 260 vehicles were destroyed and 150 militants killed in strikes that began late Tuesday as routed jihadists attempted to leave their last positions west of the city in huge convoys.

"Our heroes in the military aviation destroyed more than 200 vehicles," Yahya Rasool, the spokesman of the Joint Operations Command coordinating the fight against IS, said.
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Re: Baq to Iraq

Post by Kolohe » 30 Jun 2016, 10:57

Bombing the shit out of retreating army on Iraqi roads is what one does over there.
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Re: Baq to Iraq

Post by Taktix® » 30 Jun 2016, 11:14

Hugh Akston wrote:You guys I'm running out of clever ways to express that this keeps happening
The United States will send approximately 200 additional troops to Iraq and allow U.S. advisers to move closer to the front lines, the Pentagon said Monday, as the Obama administration embraces new measures to intensify its campaign against the Islamic State.
The new troops, who will include additional advisers and troops supporting enhanced helicopter and artillery operations, will bring the official troop number for Iraq to 4,087, from a present level of 3,870. Hundreds of troops are already in Iraq above the current number on what are deemed temporary assignments.
And people wonder why I don't trust figures coming from the government...
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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: Baq to Iraq

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 30 Jun 2016, 11:18

The new troops, who will include additional advisers and troops supporting enhanced helicopter and artillery operations, will bring the official troop number for Iraq to 4,087, from a present level of 3,870. Hundreds of troops are already in Iraq above the current number on what are deemed temporary assignments.
I pity the rest of the troops who apparently will be stationed there for life.

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