Inequality

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Aresen
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Re: Inequality

Post by Aresen » 17 May 2019, 11:30

Ellie wrote:
17 May 2019, 11:17
Is it just me or is the whole "ha ha but not really" guillotine meme catching on lately?

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WTF?

Of course, they miss the fact that the Jacobins wound up guillotining each other.
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thoreau
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Re: Inequality

Post by thoreau » 17 May 2019, 12:01

Holier-than-thou progressives want me to support a program that will eventually lead to them guillotining each other?

Where do I send the donations?
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JD
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Re: Inequality

Post by JD » 17 May 2019, 13:31

Ellie wrote:
17 May 2019, 11:17
Is it just me or is the whole "ha ha but not really" guillotine meme catching on lately?
I wonder if any of these same people were upset about Sarah Palin's "crosshairs" ad. But the underlying stupidity of the cartoon is the idea that our problems are due to a specific identifiable group of Bad Guys, and if we just got rid of the Bad Guys, everything would be fine. The idea that maybe we have problems because people everywhere around the world want stuff and better lives is way harder to wrestle with than the idea that our problems are due to a few Bad Guys being "greedy" for "profit".
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Shem
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Re: Inequality

Post by Shem » 17 May 2019, 14:32

I thought the underlying stupidity of the cartoon was that it's been done a million times before in far more clever ways.
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Re: Inequality

Post by lunchstealer » 17 May 2019, 14:48

Shem wrote:
17 May 2019, 14:32
I thought the underlying stupidity of the cartoon was that it's been done a million times before in far more clever ways.
¿Porque no los dos?

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Re: Inequality

Post by Jennifer » 17 May 2019, 14:49

JD wrote:
17 May 2019, 13:31
Ellie wrote:
17 May 2019, 11:17
Is it just me or is the whole "ha ha but not really" guillotine meme catching on lately?
I wonder if any of these same people were upset about Sarah Palin's "crosshairs" ad. But the underlying stupidity of the cartoon is the idea that our problems are due to a specific identifiable group of Bad Guys, and if we just got rid of the Bad Guys, everything would be fine. The idea that maybe we have problems because people everywhere around the world want stuff and better lives is way harder to wrestle with than the idea that our problems are due to a few Bad Guys being "greedy" for "profit".
Don't know if you remember this (or even noticed this at the time), but in one my my debates with my literal-socialist Facebook friend (this is the same man who once said the free market is immoral because most people think sugary or fatty junk-food snacks taste better than healthy veggies), he blamed "capitalism" for various things which really are problems in various capitalist countries -- everything from human-rights violations to environmental pollution -- except he blamed these on "capitalism" rather than "Human nature." (And, of course, he completely ignored my repeated question "So, what is the one political or economic system notable for NEVER allowing bad people into power, NEVER violating people's rights, NEVER causing environmental pollution...." Nope, easier to blame all this on "capitalism.")
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Inequality

Post by Eric the .5b » 17 May 2019, 15:49

thoreau wrote:
17 May 2019, 12:01
Holier-than-thou progressives want me to support a program that will eventually lead to them guillotining each other?

Where do I send the donations?
The problem is that they involve lots of other people before getting to each other.

But yeah, I think Julian Sanchez called it; it's a lame form of edgy posturing on the left, lately. I can't help noticing that it's always by people who utterly lose their shit if anyone postures with even the vaguest hint of violence in their direction.
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dead_elvis
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Re: Inequality

Post by dead_elvis » 17 May 2019, 16:15

When this comes up over at boingboing the answer is always “hey, we’re not advocating violence, just sayin’ if you want guillotines that’s how you get guillotines”. They would *never* allow that defense in any other context.

It’s either “you can only push a man so far” or “you’re *forcing* me hit you” depending on your POV. They are remarkably blind to the second possible interpretation, but even if pointed out the fallback is that they are not initiating violence, the claim is self-defense against the ‘system’ that attacked them first.

That said the mindless cliche about big corporations is eye rolling.
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Ellie
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Re: Inequality

Post by Ellie » 20 May 2019, 16:33

Sigh.

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Re: Inequality

Post by Hugh Akston » 20 May 2019, 17:16

Do people really think that sex work isn't a job?
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Re: Inequality

Post by Jennifer » 20 May 2019, 17:26

I checked that guy's twitter feed to see if he was pro- or anti-sex work (assuming consensual adult etc.) ... I honestly have no idea.
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Re: Inequality

Post by Hugh Akston » 20 May 2019, 17:29

Jennifer wrote:
20 May 2019, 17:26
I checked that guy's twitter feed to see if he was pro- or anti-sex work (assuming consensual adult etc.) ... I honestly have no idea.
I think you mean you checked that xuys twitter feed.
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Ellie
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Re: Inequality

Post by Ellie » 20 May 2019, 17:48

I took that post to mean the guy (excuse me -- the xuy) thinks sex work is a job, but being a landlord isn't.

But I think a lot of religious conservatives wouldn't think of sex work as a job, the way you wouldn't call robbing banks or scamming old ladies a job.
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Re: Inequality

Post by nicole » 20 May 2019, 20:21

Ellie wrote:
20 May 2019, 17:48
I took that post to mean the guy (excuse me -- the xuy) thinks sex work is a job, but being a landlord isn't.

But I think a lot of religious conservatives wouldn't think of sex work as a job, the way you wouldn't call robbing banks or scamming old ladies a job.
That is also what I took it to mean.
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Re: Inequality

Post by dhex » 21 May 2019, 07:39

georgist hookers up in this bitch thank you twitter
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Mo
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Re: Inequality

Post by Mo » 21 May 2019, 08:03

Eric the .5b wrote:
17 May 2019, 15:49
thoreau wrote:
17 May 2019, 12:01
Holier-than-thou progressives want me to support a program that will eventually lead to them guillotining each other?

Where do I send the donations?
The problem is that they involve lots of other people before getting to each other.

But yeah, I think Julian Sanchez called it; it's a lame form of edgy posturing on the left, lately. I can't help noticing that it's always by people who utterly lose their shit if anyone postures with even the vaguest hint of violence in their direction.
I think Julian (or it may have been Jane Coaston) was talking about "vice signaling" broadly from the right and left. The guillotine is the big example from the left and on the right it's about shooting immigrants and shit like that from the right. The latter feels scarier because there are actual people in power doing the vice signaling even if they're not going out and doing it.
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Re: Inequality

Post by dhex » 21 May 2019, 10:24

I think it was Jane. It's a good concept.
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JasonL
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Re: Inequality

Post by JasonL » 21 May 2019, 10:49

The use of "vice signalling" I've seen has a slightly different flavor. It's basically the argument that liberal people engage in displays of caring and so forth that signal their good standing to their group - we call that virtue signalling, but other people play the bad guys in outrage culture, conservative trolls and trumpkins and many other people engage in signalling about how little they care about squishy things even if they actually do care somewhat about those things.

This use of vice signalling is more about ... how extreme one is willing to be in their signals whether it be for a "good guy" case or a "bad guy" case. Like two axes, where x axis is Virtue to Vice and y axis is intensity from Sad Face Emoji to Guillotine/Shoot Them

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Mo
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Re: Inequality

Post by Mo » 21 May 2019, 12:49

JasonL wrote:
21 May 2019, 10:49
The use of "vice signalling" I've seen has a slightly different flavor. It's basically the argument that liberal people engage in displays of caring and so forth that signal their good standing to their group - we call that virtue signalling, but other people play the bad guys in outrage culture, conservative trolls and trumpkins and many other people engage in signalling about how little they care about squishy things even if they actually do care somewhat about those things.

This use of vice signalling is more about ... how extreme one is willing to be in their signals whether it be for a "good guy" case or a "bad guy" case. Like two axes, where x axis is Virtue to Vice and y axis is intensity from Sad Face Emoji to Guillotine/Shoot Them
Saying you're willing to behead people*, even for "good guy" things, is still vice signaling.

* When we all know you're fucking not willing
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Eric the .5b
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Re: Inequality

Post by Eric the .5b » 21 May 2019, 14:54

Mo wrote:
21 May 2019, 08:03
Eric the .5b wrote:
17 May 2019, 15:49
thoreau wrote:
17 May 2019, 12:01
Holier-than-thou progressives want me to support a program that will eventually lead to them guillotining each other?

Where do I send the donations?
The problem is that they involve lots of other people before getting to each other.

But yeah, I think Julian Sanchez called it; it's a lame form of edgy posturing on the left, lately. I can't help noticing that it's always by people who utterly lose their shit if anyone postures with even the vaguest hint of violence in their direction.
I think Julian (or it may have been Jane Coaston) was talking about "vice signaling" broadly from the right and left. The guillotine is the big example from the left and on the right it's about shooting immigrants and shit like that from the right. The latter feels scarier because there are actual people in power doing the vice signaling even if they're not going out and doing it.
In this case, it was Julian, because he was specifically taking about people who'd never do anything. (Also, he didn't use "vice signaling", he just mocked the behavior directly.)



It's really the same thing as the Nazi-punching business, where Blues got in a huff about anyone saying they shouldn't commit a violent act that they'd never, ever dare to actually try in real life.
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nicole
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Re: Inequality

Post by nicole » 22 May 2019, 08:25

Long story on affordable housing in CT: https://www.propublica.org/article/how- ... le-housing
What this means is that approximately 1 out of every 30 housing units in Westport is dedicated to low- or moderate-income residents, compared with 1 in 8 next door in Norwalk, or 1 in 5 in Bridgeport 9 miles away.
That pretty much summarizes it, including the failure to mention that two out of those three places are shitholes. Guess which.
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Mo
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Re: Inequality

Post by Mo » 28 May 2019, 04:27

In fairness, Norwalk is less of a shithole now and is getting nicer.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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JasonL
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Re: Inequality

Post by JasonL » 28 May 2019, 09:24

I've been thinking about this for a several days since I saw the Scott Sumner piece about it and this piece in Bloomberg - I think the story of real inflation adjusted wage stagnation that has been told for 10 years is not only wrong, but I think many of the people telling that story knew it to be wrong. Krugman, et al. The evidence is not difficult to digest, it isn't particularly controversial and it doesn't depend on unique starting and ending dates to establish a real trend line - it's sitting right there in the FRED dataset. The way that stagnating wages became so universally accepted as a story (rather than the real story which is just that wages stagnated relative to explosive growth in the top 1%) is worrisome.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/artic ... tly-a-myth

https://www.econlib.org/the-real-wage-myth/

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Mo
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Re: Inequality

Post by Mo » 28 May 2019, 10:24

Median wages grew during the great recession? That doesn't pass any smell test whatsoever.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Highway
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Re: Inequality

Post by Highway » 28 May 2019, 10:58

Mo wrote:Median wages grew during the great recession? That doesn't pass any smell test whatsoever.
I'm not necessarily up on how they compute the median for wages, but isn't that what you'd expect to happen when you fire a lot of low paid people? Cut a bunch off the bottom, and the statistics all go up.
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