Inequality

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Fin Fang Foom
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Re: Inequality

Post by Fin Fang Foom » 08 Mar 2018, 11:17

New slogan for NJ:

New Jersey: It's Actually Fine

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Eric the .5b
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Re: Inequality

Post by Eric the .5b » 08 Mar 2018, 17:43

NJ and NY gave us Trump (and NY gave us Senator Clinton).

We should give them back to Old York and Old Jersey.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
"Cyberpunk never really gave the government enough credit for their ability to secure a favorable prenup during the Corporate-State wedding." - Shem

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Kwix
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Re: Inequality

Post by Kwix » 08 Mar 2018, 17:46

Eric the .5b wrote:
07 Mar 2018, 21:11
Kwix wrote:
07 Mar 2018, 18:04
Maybe it's just me but I look at the supposed benefits of living in places like San Francisco or New York and when weighed against the costs and for me... well the rent is just too damn high. I'd rather live in an affordable but smaller city, particularly given the advent of online entertainment and shopping options.
We should build a wall around San Francisco.

I'd say NYC, too, but that's been done.
I'm sure that wall could have been better. I mean, it is escapable.
"pedialyte is like planned parenthood for hangovers. it costs you a bit, but it makes your little problem go away until the next time you drink too much."-- dhex
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Inequality

Post by Eric the .5b » 08 Mar 2018, 17:48

Kwix wrote:
08 Mar 2018, 17:46
Eric the .5b wrote:
07 Mar 2018, 21:11
Kwix wrote:
07 Mar 2018, 18:04
Maybe it's just me but I look at the supposed benefits of living in places like San Francisco or New York and when weighed against the costs and for me... well the rent is just too damn high. I'd rather live in an affordable but smaller city, particularly given the advent of online entertainment and shopping options.
We should build a wall around San Francisco.

I'd say NYC, too, but that's been done.
I'm sure that wall could have been better. I mean, it is escapable.
Only at the behest of the executive branch, and when would they ever abuse power?
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
"Cyberpunk never really gave the government enough credit for their ability to secure a favorable prenup during the Corporate-State wedding." - Shem

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Fin Fang Foom
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Re: Inequality

Post by Fin Fang Foom » 08 Mar 2018, 21:46

Eric the .5b wrote:
08 Mar 2018, 17:43
NJ and NY gave us Trump (and NY gave us Senator Clinton).

We should give them back to Old York and Old Jersey.
Can we just kill everyone in Texas, for the good of humanity? Except for taco truck operators. Taco truck operators are Texas's Lot, with less daughter fucking.

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Shem
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Re: Inequality

Post by Shem » 08 Mar 2018, 22:03

Fin Fang Foom wrote:
08 Mar 2018, 21:46
Eric the .5b wrote:
08 Mar 2018, 17:43
NJ and NY gave us Trump (and NY gave us Senator Clinton).

We should give them back to Old York and Old Jersey.
Can we just kill everyone in Texas, for the good of humanity? Except for taco truck operators. Taco truck operators are Texas's Lot, with less daughter fucking.
How do you get from denaturalization to genocide?
"VOTE SHEMOCRACY! You will only have to do it once!" -Loyalty Officer Aresen

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Eric the .5b
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Re: Inequality

Post by Eric the .5b » 08 Mar 2018, 22:11

Shem wrote:
08 Mar 2018, 22:03
Fin Fang Foom wrote:
08 Mar 2018, 21:46
Eric the .5b wrote:
08 Mar 2018, 17:43
NJ and NY gave us Trump (and NY gave us Senator Clinton).

We should give them back to Old York and Old Jersey.
Can we just kill everyone in Texas, for the good of humanity? Except for taco truck operators. Taco truck operators are Texas's Lot, with less daughter fucking.
How do you get from denaturalization to genocide?
Over-tight underwear and meth use are the most common causes of escalation to genocide, going by last century.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
"Cyberpunk never really gave the government enough credit for their ability to secure a favorable prenup during the Corporate-State wedding." - Shem

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Fin Fang Foom
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Re: Inequality

Post by Fin Fang Foom » 09 Mar 2018, 10:55

Shem wrote:
08 Mar 2018, 22:03
Fin Fang Foom wrote:
08 Mar 2018, 21:46
Eric the .5b wrote:
08 Mar 2018, 17:43
NJ and NY gave us Trump (and NY gave us Senator Clinton).

We should give them back to Old York and Old Jersey.
Can we just kill everyone in Texas, for the good of humanity? Except for taco truck operators. Taco truck operators are Texas's Lot, with less daughter fucking.
How do you get from denaturalization to genocide?
Come on, Texans aren't a people or people, generally. Also, have you been to Texas?

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Kwix
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Re: Inequality

Post by Kwix » 09 Mar 2018, 14:27

Eric the .5b wrote:
08 Mar 2018, 22:11
Shem wrote:
08 Mar 2018, 22:03
Fin Fang Foom wrote:
08 Mar 2018, 21:46
Eric the .5b wrote:
08 Mar 2018, 17:43
NJ and NY gave us Trump (and NY gave us Senator Clinton).

We should give them back to Old York and Old Jersey.
Can we just kill everyone in Texas, for the good of humanity? Except for taco truck operators. Taco truck operators are Texas's Lot, with less daughter fucking.
How do you get from denaturalization to genocide?
Over-tight underwear and meth use are the most common causes of escalation to genocide, going by last century.
:lol: :lol:
"pedialyte is like planned parenthood for hangovers. it costs you a bit, but it makes your little problem go away until the next time you drink too much."-- dhex
"Sweet tea is the archvillain in Wilford Brimley's origin story." -- Ellie

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tr0g
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Re: Inequality

Post by tr0g » 09 Mar 2018, 15:01

Fin Fang Foom wrote:
09 Mar 2018, 10:55
Shem wrote:
08 Mar 2018, 22:03
Fin Fang Foom wrote:
08 Mar 2018, 21:46
Eric the .5b wrote:
08 Mar 2018, 17:43
NJ and NY gave us Trump (and NY gave us Senator Clinton).

We should give them back to Old York and Old Jersey.
Can we just kill everyone in Texas, for the good of humanity? Except for taco truck operators. Taco truck operators are Texas's Lot, with less daughter fucking.
How do you get from denaturalization to genocide?
Come on, Texans aren't a people or people, generally. Also, have you been to Texas?
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Warren
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Re: Inequality

Post by Warren » 09 Mar 2018, 15:29

tr0g wrote:
09 Mar 2018, 15:01
Fin Fang Foom wrote:
09 Mar 2018, 10:55
Shem wrote:
08 Mar 2018, 22:03
Fin Fang Foom wrote:
08 Mar 2018, 21:46
Eric the .5b wrote:
08 Mar 2018, 17:43
NJ and NY gave us Trump (and NY gave us Senator Clinton).

We should give them back to Old York and Old Jersey.
Can we just kill everyone in Texas, for the good of humanity? Except for taco truck operators. Taco truck operators are Texas's Lot, with less daughter fucking.
How do you get from denaturalization to genocide?
Come on, Texans aren't a people or people, generally. Also, have you been to Texas?
McNulty.gif
What the fuck did we do now?
SXSW
THIS SPACE FOR RENT

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Jennifer
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Re: Inequality

Post by Jennifer » 10 Mar 2018, 13:56

Speaking of high-cost housing making people poorer than they'd otherwise be, AND idiots whose only "solutions" to that problem keep making matters worse ... I see that my old overpriced stomping grounds in Leesburg (in the outer-outermost suburbs of DC) has oh-so-graciously decided to allow more affordable housing units:

http://www.loudountimes.com/news/articl ... housing432
Leesburg allows more affordable housing units


Responding to concerns about the inability of retail and restaurant workers to live in town, the Leesburg Town Council has unanimously voted to raise its cap on affordable dwelling units (ADUs).

In a memorandum of agreement (MOA) with Loudoun County, council voted to allow the county to administer 120 ADUs, up from the original 40 approved in 2009. The memorandum initially proposed Tuesday night would have removed the cap altogether, but council wanted to take a more cautious approach and see how raising the cap would impact the town.

“This is more than an MOA. This is an action item. We intend to look at workforce housing,” Councilman Ron Campbell said. “We really intend to look at the opportunity with our developers.”

Loudoun County administers 2,200 ADUs, including attached, detached and multi-family units, for individuals who make between 30 and 70 percent of the area median income determined by the HUD Exchange. For Loudoun County, the area median income for a family of four is $110,300, and the average income of new ADU purchasers is around $48,000. A family or individual eligible for an ADU can buy or rent a property at a reduced price.

Loudoun makes certain requirements on ADUs. For instance, a family who buys an ADU can sell it for full market value after 15 years. Before that time, the family must sell the unit with the county and split any proceeds 50-50.

Developers who make or renovate developments of more than 24 units are requested to provide ADUs, whether townhouse, detached house or apartment.

In Leesburg, a developer built 30 ADUs in 2014. Of these, only 24 were bought by ADU certificate holders within 90 days. The developer sold the rest for full market value, splitting the proceeds with the county.

Several council members were concerned about removing the cap entirely, especially since Leesburg has never reached the full amount. Several Loudoun districts have much larger and active ADU programs. Dulles, for instance, has 830.

“I’d rather see that we have the ability to manage the program…instead of just going from a 40 cap to an unlimited cap,” Councilman Tom Dunn said.

Only Mayor Kelly Burk and Martinez voted against Dunn’s amendment to cap ADUs at 120, and the memorandum itself passed unanimously.

“I grew up pretty poor,” Councilman Fernando Martinez said. “These kind of social programs would help me and my family get where we are today.”
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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Jennifer
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Re: Inequality

Post by Jennifer » 10 Mar 2018, 14:23

Regarding the Leesburg thing -- remember, I lived there from summer 2012 to summer 2016, and spent pretty much the whole time appalled by how utterly fuckballs expensive it was compared to anyplace I'd lived before -- one thing I noticed is that, while there were a couple of building developments touted as "mixed use," it wasn't like the mixed-use developments of old, like "Mama and Papa owned a business, and we-all lived upstairs above it." Instead, everything was giant rental mega-complexes, or maybe giant condominiums.

There was/is one giant outdoor shopping mall called "Village at Leesburg" -- the one thing we liked about it was the Wegmans there. Otherwise it was merely "a very expensive shopping mall on the ground floor, and very expensive apartments above those expensive businesses." It is "walkable" in the sense that there's plenty of sidewalks everywhere but, as Jeff first pointed out after we'd taken an exploratory stroll through the mall before making our Wegmans purchases, other than Wegmans there were no affordable "impulse/just for fun" type stores. If you want to buy pricey upscale designer clothing, or a full suite of luxe furniture (none of that cheap IKEA stuff, more like "take IKEA's prices and multiply by ten, at minimum), or expensive gold-and precious-gems jewelry, the Village At Leesburg has you covered. But if it's simply "I've got a few bucks -- not many -- burning a hole in my pocket, and a couple hours to kill"... nope. Nothing but super-upscale-type retail businesses (and IIRC one or two of the "day spas" which were freaking ubiquitous in that area).

And several empty/vacant storefronts, the whole four years we lived there.

The apartments at The Village At Leesburg were extremely expensive, and no doubt very luxurious inside, but ... you live above an outdoor shopping mall, and the view from your window is either various luxe stores or a parking garage.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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JasonL
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Re: Inequality

Post by JasonL » 10 Mar 2018, 17:54


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Eric the .5b
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Re: Inequality

Post by Eric the .5b » 10 Mar 2018, 18:45

I'll continue proudly buying Canadian blood diamonds until they bring back Kids in the Hall.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
"Cyberpunk never really gave the government enough credit for their ability to secure a favorable prenup during the Corporate-State wedding." - Shem

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Jennifer
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Re: Inequality

Post by Jennifer » 10 Mar 2018, 18:52

JasonL wrote:
10 Mar 2018, 17:54
Ha! I was going to make a SoDoSoPa reference, but refrained. The Village at Leesburg is even worse that SoDoSoPa, IMO, because at least with the latter there are some non-expensive non-pretentious options nearby. Not so in Leesburg.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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Jennifer
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Re: Inequality

Post by Jennifer » 10 Mar 2018, 19:02

Just out of curiosity, I checked to see what the rents were for those apartments... of course they use the double- "the THIS at THAT" format: it's "The Metropolitan at Village at Leesburg."

http://www.metleesburg.com/floor-plans/

Looks like the cheapest rent there is $1,372 per month, for the one-room studio apartments. By way of comparison, the townhouse Jeff and I rented (admittedly a smallish and cheapish one by Leesburg standards, and we rented from an individual owner/small investor, not in a "mega-complex" such as where we live now) cost us something like $1,550 for a three-bedroom.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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Jennifer
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Re: Inequality

Post by Jennifer » 10 Mar 2018, 19:07

But anyway, the point I wanted to make is that for all the heralded "mixed-use" developments I've seen, especially in Leesburg (though Atlanta is just as bad regarding "The THIS at THAT" pretentious-apartment-complex naming scheme), you-the-individual cannot be a property owner in any of these mixed-use developments; whether a resident or a business/franchise owner, you can only ever be a renter in these things.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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nicole
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Re: Inequality

Post by nicole » 19 Mar 2018, 15:44

"Fucking qualia." -Hugh Akston

"This is why I carry a shoehorn.” -jadagul

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JasonL
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Re: Inequality

Post by JasonL » 19 Mar 2018, 15:50

I don’t think it’s super useful to talk about taxation as just income taxes. I kinda/really wish we would migrate payroll taxes directly into all such conversations so we can compare something closer to total tax impact.

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nicole
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Re: Inequality

Post by nicole » 19 Mar 2018, 15:51

The first tweet includes the share of all federal taxes.
"Fucking qualia." -Hugh Akston

"This is why I carry a shoehorn.” -jadagul

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Jennifer
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Re: Inequality

Post by Jennifer » 19 Mar 2018, 19:07

Plus, focusing only on federal taxes ignores how for a lot of poor people, it's the state or local tax burdens that actually cause the problems. Like my acquaintance I complained abut the other day who cannot afford to keep her paid-for home due to the Connecticut-level property taxes. It's not federal taxes exacerbating her already bad poverty.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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Shem
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Re: Inequality

Post by Shem » 19 Mar 2018, 19:22

The average effective tax paid in that tweet is meaningless. Warren Buffett and I together have an average net worth of 44.4 billion, but that doesn't make me a billionaire.
"VOTE SHEMOCRACY! You will only have to do it once!" -Loyalty Officer Aresen

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JasonL
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Re: Inequality

Post by JasonL » 19 Mar 2018, 19:56

The rule of thumb for total tax burden by states is "tack on like 8-10%" for income, property and sales taxes. So yeah, for the working poor payroll tax will be like 15.3% and total tax burden from the state could be another 8-10, though that includes state income taxes which poor people often don't have to pay, so figure maybe 3% less on average because of that. So it's like 15.3% + like 7% or so. Big error bars there.

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-h ... den/20494/

ETA Note if you are doing this for poor people you would also do it for rich people in any evaluation trying to compare who pays taxes.

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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: Inequality

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 19 Mar 2018, 23:02

nicole wrote:
06 Mar 2018, 10:35
Ellie wrote:
06 Mar 2018, 10:26
Do we think Jason's sister and Nicole's sister would get along really well, or try to attack each other within minutes if placed in the same room together?
I think they would get along...Sasha once told me that fairness was everyone getting what they needed...
... good and hard. -- H.L. Mencken

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