Inequality

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Shem
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Re: Inequality

Post by Shem » 30 Aug 2017, 10:38

Mo wrote:
30 Aug 2017, 09:34
I think it's also that turnover is more costly than assumed, especially on customer facing jobs.
Without a doubt, especially in call center environments. There's a lot of knowledge of the system and company regulations that you just can't get without experience. Back in the call center, I would have taken 4 or 5 experienced people over 20 newbies.
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Mo
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Re: Inequality

Post by Mo » 30 Aug 2017, 10:52

Shem wrote:
30 Aug 2017, 10:38
Mo wrote:
30 Aug 2017, 09:34
I think it's also that turnover is more costly than assumed, especially on customer facing jobs.
Without a doubt, especially in call center environments. There's a lot of knowledge of the system and company regulations that you just can't get without experience. Back in the call center, I would have taken 4 or 5 experienced people over 20 newbies.
Not just that, but for something like technical support, better and more experienced Level 1 support means faster support and less usage of Level 2 support. That helps keep required staffing down.
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JasonL
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Re: Inequality

Post by JasonL » 30 Aug 2017, 11:06

There's a bit of a paradox in rep staffing and quality we find. So, you don't want turnover because it is good to have tenured reps and it is totally true that you see blips in customer sat and call efficiency when you have turnover. If you talk to people though, what they most want is to be off the phones because the phones are shackles. Even in really thoughtful and decent paying phone environments, you find that people mostly want out of that role as a way to see their careers advancing or whatnot. Totally get that. But, that also means, given that they are all looking to get out asap, how much can you pay them to keep them around? We've bumped entry level comp 4 times in maybe 6 years and we've also created more tiers of reps so you can progress through the ranks. We have less turnover as a result, but the biggest thing we did was let a bunch of older workers go in the form of a voluntary buy out early last year, that created mobility and THAT kept the reps around - so they could leave the phones.

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JasonL
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Re: Inequality

Post by JasonL » 19 Sep 2017, 13:06

That new Picketty et al study "Distribution of National Accounts" is another thing that seems exhaustively researched but which reaches conclusions that don't pass the smell test. They are seeking to decompose GDP growth into which income tiers benefitted from that growth and they come up with almost nobody getting anything until you hit the top 10%. Like the 55 percentile getting literally nothing. They compare to France where the lower half of the distribution getting growth nearly identical to overall growth in the economy, get this BEFORE you account for redistribution from government programs. This is a country which during that time period averaged double or more our unemployment rate. Neither of those things can be true.

I suspect you are running into effects of trying to force GDP into individual income simply doesn't work because there are large things unaccounted for in GDP aggregates, inflation aggregates, and apportionment logic.

http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2017/0 ... .html#more

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nicole
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Re: Inequality

Post by nicole » 19 Sep 2017, 13:13

JasonL wrote:
19 Sep 2017, 13:06
That new Picketty et al study "Distribution of National Accounts" is another thing that seems exhaustively researched but which reaches conclusions that don't pass the smell test. They are seeking to decompose GDP growth into which income tiers benefitted from that growth and they come up with almost nobody getting anything until you hit the top 10%. Like the 55 percentile getting literally nothing. They compare to France where the lower half of the distribution getting growth nearly identical to overall growth in the economy, get this BEFORE you account for redistribution from government programs. This is a country which during that time period averaged double or more our unemployment rate. Neither of those things can be true.

I suspect you are running into effects of trying to force GDP into individual income simply doesn't work because there are large things unaccounted for in GDP aggregates, inflation aggregates, and apportionment logic.

http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2017/0 ... .html#more
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JasonL
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Re: Inequality

Post by JasonL » 19 Sep 2017, 13:20

I'm about :30 into it. I think the insistence that GDP is the correct aggregate is an approach that forces things to work out in wonky ways. Also unclear how their data accounts for non income benefits like healthcare etc. Like, I'm with you if you want to talk about today's lowest quitile stagnating, the next quintile doing meh and starting at the third quintile you get the split between educated professions and people who stagnate (the hollowing out of middle class is a split with some people moving to higher ground and others stagnating), but don't tell me that even net of transfers nobody but the 10% got anything since 1980.

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Re: Inequality

Post by nicole » 19 Sep 2017, 13:31

JasonL wrote:
19 Sep 2017, 13:20
I'm about :30 into it. I think the insistence that GDP is the correct aggregate is an approach that forces things to work out in wonky ways. Also unclear how their data accounts for non income benefits like healthcare etc. Like, I'm with you if you want to talk about today's lowest quitile stagnating, the next quintile doing meh and starting at the third quintile you get the split between educated professions and people who stagnate (the hollowing out of middle class is a split with some people moving to higher ground and others stagnating), but don't tell me that even net of transfers nobody but the 10% got anything since 1980.
Yeah, I get what you're saying. I don't think they really get into the question of whether GDP is the correct aggregate within the first :45 at least. Perhaps later. It's a good conversation though.
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Re: Inequality

Post by nicole » 17 Nov 2017, 15:56

What is the exact price of happiness? http://www.townandcountrymag.com/societ ... -be-happy/

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Solitudinarian
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Re: Inequality

Post by Solitudinarian » 17 Nov 2017, 16:20

On the other hand, although money will not enable you to buy your way out of the human condition, it certainly can help make yourself more comfortable as you stand in line waiting to die.
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Jennifer
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Re: Inequality

Post by Jennifer » 11 Dec 2017, 11:58

Alabama has the worst poverty in the developed world, according to the UN:

http://www.newsweek.com/alabama-un-pove ... eOfHistory
A United Nations official investigating poverty in the United States was shocked at the level of environmental degradation in some areas of rural Alabama, saying he had never seen anything like it in the developed world.

"I think it's very uncommon in the First World. This is not a sight that one normally sees. I'd have to say that I haven't seen this," Philip Alston, the U.N.'s Special Rapporteur on extreme poverty and human rights, told Connor Sheets of AL.com earlier this week as they toured a community in Butler County where "raw sewage flows from homes through exposed PVC pipes and into open trenches and pits."

The tour through Alabama's rural communities is part of a two-week investigation by the U.N. on poverty and human rights abuses in the United States. So far, U.N. investigators have visited cities and towns in California and Alabama, and will soon travel to Puerto Rico, Washington, D.C., and West Virginia.

Of particular concern to Alston are specific poverty-related issues that have surfaced across the country in recent years, such as an outbreak of hookworm in Alabama in 2017—a disease typically found in nations with substandard sanitary conditions in South Asia and sub-Saharan Africa, as reported by The Guardian. ... “Some might ask why a U.N. Special Rapporteur on extreme poverty and human rights would visit a country as rich as the United States," Alston said. "But despite great wealth in the U.S., there also exists great poverty and inequality.”

Alston also pointed out that the U.S. "has been very keen" on other countries being investigated by the U.N. for civil and human rights issues.

"Now, it's the turn to look at what's going on in the U.S.," Alston said. "There are pretty extreme levels of poverty in the United States given the wealth of the country. And that does have significant human rights implications.”
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Re: Inequality

Post by Warren » 11 Dec 2017, 12:00

Have they been to Mississippi?
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Jennifer
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Re: Inequality

Post by Jennifer » 11 Dec 2017, 12:09

Warren wrote:
11 Dec 2017, 12:00
Have they been to Mississippi?
When I was in high school,my best friend's older sister won some award (I forget what) for her work in IIRC Tunica County, Mississippi, which at the time was the poorest or one of the poorest counties in the US. But that was a generation ago, before Tunica got gambling tourists; looks like RoyMooreLand managed to surpass them.

It's pretty appalling that such poverty exists in a country as rich as ours.
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JasonL
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Re: Inequality

Post by JasonL » 11 Dec 2017, 14:41

Take the UN thing with a grain of sand or ten. They like to use poverty defined as half of within country median. So for example, PPP adjusted median French household income is like $30,300. Their poverty line is, under this measure, household $15,182. The US median is like $43,500, for a poverty line of household $21,700. That's a big difference.

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Re: Inequality

Post by Jennifer » 11 Dec 2017, 16:26

Eh, people in a first-world country in 2017 having open sewage pits in their neighborhoods (close to the drinking water supply, no less), sounds like poverty no matter what the median income is. And hookworm outbreaks? Jesus.
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Re: Inequality

Post by Warren » 11 Dec 2017, 16:37

Jennifer wrote:
11 Dec 2017, 16:26
Eh, people in a first-world country in 2017 having open sewage pits in their neighborhoods (close to the drinking water supply, no less), sounds like poverty no matter what the median income is. And hookworm outbreaks? Jesus.
That's no where near commonplace though. I traveled all over the state of AL back in Y2K and never saw anything like that.
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Jennifer
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Re: Inequality

Post by Jennifer » 11 Dec 2017, 16:39

Warren wrote:
11 Dec 2017, 16:37
Jennifer wrote:
11 Dec 2017, 16:26
Eh, people in a first-world country in 2017 having open sewage pits in their neighborhoods (close to the drinking water supply, no less), sounds like poverty no matter what the median income is. And hookworm outbreaks? Jesus.
That's no where near commonplace though. I traveled all over the state of AL back in Y2K and never saw anything like that.
Presumably you didn't travel through the same parts of the state the UN did.

For that matter, I don't recall the UN saying this was "commonplace," merely that it exists, and for more than one lone and spectacularly unlucky individual.
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Re: Inequality

Post by JasonL » 11 Dec 2017, 16:51

If "exists" is the criteria, they are downplaying things that happen in the eurozone. Spain and Italy tend to get a pass on all this stuff for some reason.

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Jennifer
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Re: Inequality

Post by Jennifer » 11 Dec 2017, 17:00

JasonL wrote:
11 Dec 2017, 16:51
If "exists" is the criteria, they are downplaying things that happen in the eurozone. Spain and Italy tend to get a pass on all this stuff for some reason.
Th five seconds required for me to Google "United Nations," "poverty" and "Spain" shows you are incorrect about the first country; I didn't bother Googling Italy to confirm that too.

Still, even if half of Europe is shitting in ditches, I can be appalled by that and also be appalled by what the UN discovered in my own country. It's not an either-or thing.
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JasonL
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Inequality

Post by JasonL » 11 Dec 2017, 22:05

What are you reading as confirmation that rural Spain is anything like the first world? But yes you can be appalled. It’s just that if they are go by to say no first world countries look like this, that’s a lie and engineered to make some kinds of poverty look not so bad.

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Jennifer
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Re: Inequality

Post by Jennifer » 12 Dec 2017, 11:24

engineered to make some kinds of poverty look not so bad.
When they're mentioning how terrible it is for people to have hookworm and open sewage pits, which types of poverty are they engineering to "look not so bad," would you say?
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JasonL
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Re: Inequality

Post by JasonL » 12 Dec 2017, 11:57

The kind you see all over the place in Spain for example when you say “this doesn’t happen in the developed world.” It can be bad but unrelated to things we should adopt for total wellbeing in Spain and Italy.

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Jennifer
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Re: Inequality

Post by Jennifer » 12 Dec 2017, 12:03

JasonL wrote:
12 Dec 2017, 11:57
The kind you see all over the place in Spain for example when you say “this doesn’t happen in the developed world.” It can be bad but unrelated to things we should adopt for total wellbeing in Spain and Italy.
So -- they shouldn't criticize appalling poverty found in the richest country on earth, without including disclaimers a la "But it's even worse in various non-rich countries?" Can't admit to flaws in our country until worse problems in all other countries are fixed?
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Re: Inequality

Post by lunchstealer » 12 Dec 2017, 12:14

No. He’s saying that they shouldn’t say ‘you don’t see this anywhere else in the developed world’ if you do in fact see it elsewhere in the developed world.
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JasonL
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Re: Inequality

Post by JasonL » 12 Dec 2017, 12:17

They can criticize. They can’t say this doesn’t happen in developed Europe because that’s a lie. The difference is the implication for policy. It’s like when the UN ranks healthcare and puts Cuba ahead of the US. That’s retarded. When UN ease of doing business rankings strip “worker rights” from measurement so they can finger wag for a specific policy.

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Inequality

Post by lunchstealer » 12 Dec 2017, 12:18

Holy shit this is happening in the US can you believe this shit? is ok, but don’t say nowhere else this is unique when somewhere else not unique.
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