Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

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Kolohe
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Re: Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Kolohe » 28 Jan 2016, 10:38

I'm not saying the assessment of a 'good' shooting will turn out to be incorrect, just how quickly the assessment was made, despite everything else people have been saying about police shootings in the past year or so.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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dhex
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Re: Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

Post by dhex » 28 Jan 2016, 16:09

there is a certain amount of abstract desire for violence that seems to be pretty universal. if not violence, then punishment - some kind of cosmic quid pro quo.
"I do wear my New Balance tennis shoes when I'm wearing cargo shorts, though, because truth in advertising." - lunch

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Eric the .5b
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Re: Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Eric the .5b » 28 Jan 2016, 17:16

And there were plenty of liberals having outage-gasms every time those guys did anything and fuming about nothing happening to the "terrorists" . Their attempts to hide their delight at this guy's death have been feeble or absent.

It may have been a perfectly justified shooting, but the question is not a concern to them.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
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thoreau
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Re: Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

Post by thoreau » 28 Jan 2016, 17:21

Eric the .5b wrote:And there were plenty of liberals having outage-gasms every time those guys did anything and fuming about nothing happening to the "terrorists" . Their attempts to hide their delight at this guy's death have been feeble or absent.

It may have been a perfectly justified shooting, but the question is not a concern to them.
I'll co-sign this.

I loled when liberals sent dildos to them. I enjoyed the Vanilla ISIS meme...in part because I saw what they were doing as so pathetic. And I certainly wanted to see them arrested sooner rather than later. But I have to draw the line at being glad that it was settled with lethal force.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
--Shem

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dhex
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Re: Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

Post by dhex » 28 Jan 2016, 19:24

Eric the .5b wrote:And there were plenty of liberals having outage-gasms every time those guys did anything and fuming about nothing happening to the "terrorists" . Their attempts to hide their delight at this guy's death have been feeble or absent.

It may have been a perfectly justified shooting, but the question is not a concern to them.
yup.

i think the chain goes something like:

1) people with guns make us unsafe
2) these people revel in scaring others
3) the police are bad, but these guys are worse
4) yay death

jesus people are terrible.
"I do wear my New Balance tennis shoes when I'm wearing cargo shorts, though, because truth in advertising." - lunch

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Painboy
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Re: Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Painboy » 28 Jan 2016, 20:02

Shem wrote:
Kolohe wrote:I like how the liberal internet immediately knows *this* shooting was justified and the cops' immediate stories put outdoor there in the press are the correct ones
FWIW, the guy who got shot was the one who told the media a few weeks ago that he'd sooner die and/or kill than go to jail.
Everybody wins!

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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 28 Jan 2016, 20:05

Painboy wrote:
Shem wrote:
Kolohe wrote:I like how the liberal internet immediately knows *this* shooting was justified and the cops' immediate stories put outdoor there in the press are the correct ones
FWIW, the guy who got shot was the one who told the media a few weeks ago that he'd sooner die and/or kill than go to jail.
Everybody wins!
Who says your dreams can't come true in America any longer?

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dbcooper
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Re: Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

Post by dbcooper » 28 Jan 2016, 23:27

Slip inside a sleeping bag.

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Shem
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Re: Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Shem » 29 Jan 2016, 00:22

I still wonder why the police allowed them to come and go as they pleased for as long as they did. Seems like if they had set up a perimeter and boxed them in earlier, they could have used hunger to end this without anyone dying. As it is, they've had weeks now to reinforce their position and bring in supplies.
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lunchstealer
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Re: Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

Post by lunchstealer » 29 Jan 2016, 01:33

Because when that kind of siege perimeter doesn't work, you get frustrated and want to end the siege, and Waco II: Electric Boogaloo. You just keep someone around to keep an eye on them without interdicting anything, and things have a chance to stay sane.

What's utterly unsurprising about the video is how they've shot him in the face and he's bleeding out and our brave first responders stand around 15 yards away doing whatever it is that cops do after they kill someone in the hours before they let the coroners come put them in a body bag.
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fyodor
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Re: Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

Post by fyodor » 29 Jan 2016, 01:56

lunchstealer wrote:Because when that kind of siege perimeter doesn't work, you get frustrated and want to end the siege, and Waco II: Electric Boogaloo. You just keep someone around to keep an eye on them without interdicting anything, and things have a chance to stay sane.

What's utterly unsurprising about the video is how they've shot him in the face and he's bleeding out and our brave first responders stand around 15 yards away doing whatever it is that cops do after they kill someone in the hours before they let the coroners come put them in a body bag.
Re standing around, could that be cause the others were still in the truck and hadn't yet surrendered? They look like they're still taking cover at the end there.

Yeah, there's always plenty of hypocrisy to go around with these things. It's long struck me that the left hates municipal cops and supports the feds and the right is just the opposite. Go figure.

And there'll always be second guessing too. Which is maybe good, though you wanna keep it in perspective. I remember after Waco everyone was saying that the ATF should have arrested Koresh when he left the compound and went into town, some even saying that their not doing that proved they were more interested in making a big splash than doing justice.
Your optimism just confuses and enrages me. - Timothy

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Shem
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Re: Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Shem » 29 Jan 2016, 01:56

But now they have a dead guy, a bunch of even more pissed off insurgents, and they're still in a siege. They block it off a day later, and those guys probably give up out of hunger within 3 or 4 days. They clearly didn't plan things out, hence the request for supplies.
"VOTE SHEMOCRACY! You will only have to do it once!" -Loyalty Officer Aresen

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fyodor
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Re: Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

Post by fyodor » 29 Jan 2016, 02:14

I guess that's why they say federal agents always fight the last armed standoff! ;)
Your optimism just confuses and enrages me. - Timothy

Dangerman
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Re: Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Dangerman » 11 Feb 2016, 00:12

Livestream from the siege:


Reddit thread liveblogs it:

Sorry I didn't post earlier. It's....insane. Madness to listen to.

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Andrew
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Re: Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Andrew » 12 Feb 2016, 14:36

The federal complaint against Cliven Bundy: https://s3.amazonaws.com/wapopartners.c ... laint1.pdf

Color me unimpressed. Also, the FBI sounds like a bunch of crybabies, even assuming the affidavit is anywhere close to the truth (of course, it's far more likely to be puffed up half truths and outright lies).
We live in the fucked age. Get used to it. - dhex

holy shit there will never be an end until the sweet release of death (as dictated by the death panels, natch) - lunch

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lunchstealer
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Re: Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

Post by lunchstealer » 12 Feb 2016, 14:54

The biggest issue I have is with the use of the word 'assault'. I just can't imagine that the term 'assault' can be used in the absence of at least SOME form of violence. Brandishing a weapon - even to the point of aiming that weapon - can be many many things, including a true threat and intimmidation and extortion and whatever else but assault? That seems like inflation of the terminology beyond what it can really support just to get an alarming connotation to prejudice readers against Bundy et al.

I know that legal words have different meanings than normal human speech, but they still have emotional impact, and that emotional impact can be manipulative if you make a legal word mean something too different from the normal human equivalent.
"The constitution is more of a BDSM agreement with a safe word." - Sandy

"Neoliberalism. Austerity. Booga booga!!!!" - JasonL

"We can't confirm rumors that Lynndie England is in the running to be Gina Haspel's personal aide." - DAR

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Mo
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Re: Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Mo » 12 Feb 2016, 15:08

I think part of it is the colloquial use of assault more closely aligns with what is legally battery and the legal term assault is what is colloquially called a legit threat.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Re: Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

Post by lunchstealer » 09 Mar 2016, 00:04

They've released cellphone video from inside Finicum's truck during the shooting.

Definitely suicide by cop. He immediately hops out yelling 'Go ahead and shoot me!'

Feds being feds, they oblige without any serious hesitation.

Then they just randomly shoot at the people in the truck a few times a minute for a few minutes before finally tear gassing them and then ordering them out. They are - perhaps understandably - terrified to comply, assuming that the cops will shoot them as well.
"The constitution is more of a BDSM agreement with a safe word." - Sandy

"Neoliberalism. Austerity. Booga booga!!!!" - JasonL

"We can't confirm rumors that Lynndie England is in the running to be Gina Haspel's personal aide." - DAR

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the innominate one
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Re: Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

Post by the innominate one » 11 Mar 2016, 08:07

"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." -E Benn

"No shit, Sherlock." -JsubD

"now is the time to go fuck yourself until you die." -dhex

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thoreau
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Re: Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

Post by thoreau » 12 Aug 2016, 21:32

One of the Bundy's is now declaring that he's an idiot and therefore not subject to US law. Or something.

I gather that this has something to do with the Greek word idiotes referring to a person not involved in public life. So if they aren't involved in public life then they aren't subject to the law. Or something.

Either way, the guy's an idiot.

h/t Scott Alexander
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
--Shem

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Mo
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Re: Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Mo » 12 Aug 2016, 21:34

I can't believe this is real. I thought this was some sort of Onion-like parody article.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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dbcooper
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Re: Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

Post by dbcooper » 12 Aug 2016, 21:40

Fringe religious fanatics are nuts and stupid? Not a big shock.
Slip inside a sleeping bag.

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Fin Fang Foom
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Re: Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Fin Fang Foom » 12 Aug 2016, 21:47

thoreau wrote:One of the Bundy's is now declaring that he's an idiot and therefore not subject to US law. Or something.

I gather that this has something to do with the Greek word idiotes referring to a person not involved in public life. So if they aren't involved in public life then they aren't subject to the law. Or something.

Either way, the guy's an idiot.

h/t Scott Alexander
Someone should explain to those dummies what outlaw and similar usually meant.
". . . even the federalist folk are probably a bit wary, and they're essentially cosplaying the preacher from footloose." - dhex

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the innominate one
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Re: Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

Post by the innominate one » 12 Aug 2016, 22:34

Why not simply kick idiot sovereign citizen types out of the country?
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." -E Benn

"No shit, Sherlock." -JsubD

"now is the time to go fuck yourself until you die." -dhex

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Fin Fang Foom
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Re: Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Fin Fang Foom » 13 Aug 2016, 00:16

the innominate one wrote:Why not simply kick idiot sovereign citizen types out of the country?
Cuz hunting them for sport would be more fun.
". . . even the federalist folk are probably a bit wary, and they're essentially cosplaying the preacher from footloose." - dhex

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