Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 06 Jan 2016, 14:45

To the extent that culpability lies in voluntarily continuing to reside in and therefore help fund the state, I agree with Nicole. The blameworthiness of failing to act may be small, but I don't see how one can plausibly deny it exists at all. The problem, though, is that there is nowhere to go that is not at least as bad if not worse.

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thoreau
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Re: Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

Post by thoreau » 06 Jan 2016, 14:55

As a state university employee I am a net drain on the state and a diversion of resources away from warmaking. Go me!
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
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Kolohe
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Re: Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Kolohe » 06 Jan 2016, 15:15

thoreau wrote:As a state university employee I am a net drain on the state and a diversion of resources away from warmaking. Go me!
puh-leeze. Until the Californians have to fight off Caesar's Legions, that's different pots of money and different tax streams (and mostly different people paying them). Some of us got paid by the war machine to go on junkets to Thailand, Puerto Rico, and New Orleans, (and Cleveland), and are drawing money out of that pot and away from flying killer robots for the rest of our lives.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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thoreau
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Re: Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

Post by thoreau » 06 Jan 2016, 15:21

Sir, you earned that money. Nobody should have to go to Cleveland without ample recompense.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
--Shem

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dbcooper
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Re: Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

Post by dbcooper » 06 Jan 2016, 15:44

thoreau wrote:http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/ ... other.html

Irrespective of the merits of any particular side's case, the point about the media is spot-on.
If it happened in Austria, for example, it wouldn't be reported at all.
Slip inside a sleeping bag.

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thoreau
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Re: Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

Post by thoreau » 13 Jan 2016, 11:56

Vanilla ISIS is annoyed by all of the people sending them sex toys in the mail.

http://junkee.com/the-oregon-militia-ar ... mail/71957

Personally, I'm a little baffled by the concept of a siege in which the cops allow the armed rebels to receive mail delivery. And why are anti-government patriots accepting anything that the US Postal Service sends them anyway?
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
--Shem

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Fin Fang Foom
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Re: Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Fin Fang Foom » 13 Jan 2016, 11:59

thoreau wrote:Vanilla ISIS is annoyed by all of the people sending them sex toys in the mail.

http://junkee.com/the-oregon-militia-ar ... mail/71957

Personally, I'm a little baffled by the concept of a siege in which the cops allow the armed rebels to receive mail delivery. And why are anti-government patriots accepting anything that the US Postal Service sends them anyway?
Because it isn't a siege?

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JD
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Re: Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

Post by JD » 13 Jan 2016, 12:08

I'm a little peeved at the self-serving hypotheticals about "If these guys were People of Color, the government would never tolerate it!" The closest historical parallel we have is probably the Occupation of Alcatraz, which went on for a year and a half and was resolved fairly nonviolently.

EDIT: Or maybe Wounded Knee is a better parallel...still, that went on for months, and resulted in only two deaths on each side, not a massive bloodbath.
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thoreau
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Re: Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

Post by thoreau » 13 Jan 2016, 12:40

Fin Fang Foom wrote:
thoreau wrote:Vanilla ISIS is annoyed by all of the people sending them sex toys in the mail.

http://junkee.com/the-oregon-militia-ar ... mail/71957

Personally, I'm a little baffled by the concept of a siege in which the cops allow the armed rebels to receive mail delivery. And why are anti-government patriots accepting anything that the US Postal Service sends them anyway?
Because it isn't a siege?
Well, why isn't it? I keep thinking that if I got a few friends together and we got guns and took over a building, a bunch of cops would probably surround the place and not let anyone in or out until we were arrested. I can't get past the "How the fuck are these guys getting it so easy?" part. Nobody else would.

Mind you, I'm not saying I want a Balkoesque "isolated incident" to befall them, but I'm kind of stumped by a scenario where a bunch of armed men take over a government building but get to come and go to collect their mail and have friends deliver snacks. How the fuck are they getting away with this?
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
--Shem

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tr0g
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Re: Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

Post by tr0g » 13 Jan 2016, 13:11

thoreau wrote:
Fin Fang Foom wrote:
thoreau wrote:Vanilla ISIS is annoyed by all of the people sending them sex toys in the mail.

http://junkee.com/the-oregon-militia-ar ... mail/71957

Personally, I'm a little baffled by the concept of a siege in which the cops allow the armed rebels to receive mail delivery. And why are anti-government patriots accepting anything that the US Postal Service sends them anyway?
Because it isn't a siege?
Well, why isn't it? I keep thinking that if I got a few friends together and we got guns and took over a building, a bunch of cops would probably surround the place and not let anyone in or out until we were arrested. I can't get past the "How the fuck are these guys getting it so easy?" part. Nobody else would.

Mind you, I'm not saying I want a Balkoesque "isolated incident" to befall them, but I'm kind of stumped by a scenario where a bunch of armed men take over a government building but get to come and go to collect their mail and have friends deliver snacks. How the fuck are they getting away with this?
Being out at the ass end of nowhere probably helps. It also probably helps that they occupied a seasonally unused building. Had they tried this with, say, the Edith Green/Wendell Wyatt Building in downtown Portland, it'd be game on and the Bundyites would have left on stretchers and in body bags.
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Fin Fang Foom
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Re: Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Fin Fang Foom » 13 Jan 2016, 13:32

thoreau wrote:
Fin Fang Foom wrote:
thoreau wrote:Vanilla ISIS is annoyed by all of the people sending them sex toys in the mail.

http://junkee.com/the-oregon-militia-ar ... mail/71957

Personally, I'm a little baffled by the concept of a siege in which the cops allow the armed rebels to receive mail delivery. And why are anti-government patriots accepting anything that the US Postal Service sends them anyway?
Because it isn't a siege?
Well, why isn't it? I keep thinking that if I got a few friends together and we got guns and took over a building, a bunch of cops would probably surround the place and not let anyone in or out until we were arrested. I can't get past the "How the fuck are these guys getting it so easy?" part. Nobody else would.

Mind you, I'm not saying I want a Balkoesque "isolated incident" to befall them, but I'm kind of stumped by a scenario where a bunch of armed men take over a government building but get to come and go to collect their mail and have friends deliver snacks. How the fuck are they getting away with this?
Is the government actually preventing them from leaving?

They probably figured they can just ID them and nab them whenever.

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Fin Fang Foom
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Re: Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Fin Fang Foom » 18 Jan 2016, 11:37

thoreau wrote:Vanilla ISIS is annoyed by all of the people sending them sex toys in the mail.

http://junkee.com/the-oregon-militia-ar ... mail/71957

Personally, I'm a little baffled by the concept of a siege in which the cops allow the armed rebels to receive mail delivery. And why are anti-government patriots accepting anything that the US Postal Service sends them anyway?
And the only question is, why did it take so long for this to happen?

http://uproxx.com/webculture/cards-agai ... n-militia/

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thoreau
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Re: Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

Post by thoreau » 18 Jan 2016, 11:52

While I am generally disturbed by the feds letting these guys receive deliveries, I make an exception for the giant container of lube. That is awesome.

I want to make a joke about the rape allegations against Temkin but I can't quite make it work.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
--Shem

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Shem
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Re: Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Shem » 18 Jan 2016, 13:46

nicole wrote:
tr0g wrote:
nicole wrote:So uh is there any way people could actually, you know, take action against the government without people on a freaking libertarian board wringing their hands about how they're big meanies? Smashing the state ain't nice.
I'm in. The US federal government is the biggest threat to your life and property going. You want to take up arms and go for broke? Rock on, brother. They'll get crushed when push comes to shove, but have at. I don't get the idea that the only way to resist the state is non-violently. The state will bury you if you get out of line, but we're not supposed to exercise violence against it or its agents? Fuck that noise.
Team tr0g. If you're up for going down, have at.
Have fun being universally reviled when the state parades Officer Jake Jackboot's orphan son Jimmy in front of the cameras, then. You go nonviolent because the state is better at PR than you could ever be
"VOTE SHEMOCRACY! You will only have to do it once!" -Loyalty Officer Aresen

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Shem
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Re: Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Shem » 18 Jan 2016, 13:48

fyodor wrote:Another issue that I do wonder about is the possibility of double jeopardy. How was it that the appellate court changed the original sentencing? Did the prosecutors appeal? Is it normal for sentences to be reviewed by higher courts? I don't understand the process, if someone would like to enlighten me about that.
The prosecutors appealed the sentence because the original judge disregarded a mandatory minimum in order to give the arsonists a lighter sentence. They weren't retried, so double jeopardy doesn't apply.
"VOTE SHEMOCRACY! You will only have to do it once!" -Loyalty Officer Aresen

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nicole
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Re: Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

Post by nicole » 19 Jan 2016, 11:52

Shem wrote:
nicole wrote:
tr0g wrote:
nicole wrote:So uh is there any way people could actually, you know, take action against the government without people on a freaking libertarian board wringing their hands about how they're big meanies? Smashing the state ain't nice.
I'm in. The US federal government is the biggest threat to your life and property going. You want to take up arms and go for broke? Rock on, brother. They'll get crushed when push comes to shove, but have at. I don't get the idea that the only way to resist the state is non-violently. The state will bury you if you get out of line, but we're not supposed to exercise violence against it or its agents? Fuck that noise.
Team tr0g. If you're up for going down, have at.
Have fun being universally reviled when the state parades Officer Jake Jackboot's orphan son Jimmy in front of the cameras, then. You go nonviolent because the state is better at PR than you could ever be
There is no winning if the game you're playing is a popularity contest among people who would happily contract out your murder because you don't mow your lawn often enough for their personal taste. And that's apparently the game you're playing.
"Fucking qualia." -Hugh Akston

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dbcooper
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Re: Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

Post by dbcooper » 19 Jan 2016, 17:52

Well good luck on your non-popular revolution.
Slip inside a sleeping bag.

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dhex
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Re: Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

Post by dhex » 19 Jan 2016, 19:06

show pitch: mtv's real world meets voluntary human extinction movement meets the last 20 minutes of doom generation.

eta: soundtrack by coil, holly herndon, and klaus nomi.

eta2: why is party girl not on netflix?
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Kolohe
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Re: Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Kolohe » 26 Jan 2016, 22:47

LaVoy Finicum - they killed the guy with the blackest name in the bunch.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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Kolohe
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Re: Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Kolohe » 26 Jan 2016, 22:58

I like how the liberal internet immediately knows *this* shooting was justified and the cops' immediate stories put outdoor there in the press are the correct ones
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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the innominate one
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Re: Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

Post by the innominate one » 26 Jan 2016, 23:09

The important thing is, at least someone got shot.
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Painboy
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Re: Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Painboy » 27 Jan 2016, 09:03

the innominate one wrote:The important thing is, at least someone got shot.
Yeah but just one person. With all that waiting. What a rip.

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fyodor
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Re: Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

Post by fyodor » 27 Jan 2016, 12:38

Painboy wrote:
the innominate one wrote:The important thing is, at least someone got shot.
Yeah but just one person. With all that waiting. What a rip.
Now, don't forget what Yogi Berra said.



(It's not over till it's over!)
Your optimism just confuses and enrages me. - Timothy

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Shem
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Re: Waco II: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Shem » 28 Jan 2016, 02:33

Kolohe wrote:I like how the liberal internet immediately knows *this* shooting was justified and the cops' immediate stories put outdoor there in the press are the correct ones
FWIW, the guy who got shot was the one who told the media a few weeks ago that he'd sooner die and/or kill than go to jail.
"VOTE SHEMOCRACY! You will only have to do it once!" -Loyalty Officer Aresen

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