Capitalism: It works, bitches

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dead_elvis
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Re: Capitalism: It works, bitches

Post by dead_elvis »

Apropos of Warren mentioning Bottle Shock (and we also just watched it a couple weeks ago), the Rogue Valley Creamery in southern Oregon:
Rogue River Blue was named World Champion at the World Cheese Awards in Bergamo, Italy, besting 3,800 of the world's finest cheeses from 42 countries on 6 continents. This is the greatest honor a cheese can receive, and the first time an American-made cheese has been honored with this distinction.
(used to occasionally go there back when I spent summers in Jacksonville; it's like seeing your local underground band make it big)
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Hugh Akston
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Re: Capitalism: It works, bitches

Post by Hugh Akston »

There's no such thing as the best cheese in the world.
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Jennifer
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Re: Capitalism: It works, bitches

Post by Jennifer »

I recall various westerners here discussing the virtues of "Tillamook" cheese, which some local supermarkets recently started carrying, but I'm afraid to try it for fear it ends up tasting noticeably better than the cheap stuff I generally buy now.
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Re: Capitalism: It works, bitches

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Jennifer wrote:
03 Nov 2019, 16:09
I recall various westerners here discussing the virtues of "Tillamook" cheese, which some local supermarkets recently started carrying, but I'm afraid to try it for fear it ends up tasting noticeably better than the cheap stuff I generally buy now.
C Northcote Parkinson wrote:A luxury, once enjoyed, becomes a necessity.
I have the same issue with real maple syrup vs grocery store pancake syrup. Also, my home-made jam vs store-bought jam.
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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: Capitalism: It works, bitches

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

Hugh Akston wrote:
03 Nov 2019, 15:42
There's no such thing as the best cheese in the world.
In the sense that not one cheese works as well for all purposes, I agree. There are, however, specific cheeses that are the very best for their intended purpose. Real Parmigiano-Reggiano, grated at the table, for example, for pasta. Cheddar or "American" slices on hamburgers, provolone on steak & cheese subs and to top French Onion soup. Emmental in omelets and on most meat & cheese sandwiches. Warm Brie as a soft cheese spread. Cream cheese (which, I know, is neither cream nor a cheese) on a bagel. I'm sure a few others are slipping my mind.

I like many other cheeses and enjoy sampling new ones on cheese trays and such, but 98% of my cheese needs are met by the above and admit no substitutions.

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Warren
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Re: Capitalism: It works, bitches

Post by Warren »

D.A. Ridgely wrote:
03 Nov 2019, 20:49
Cheddar or "American" slices on hamburgers
"American" cheese is never the best cheese. Sharp Cheddar is fine, aged Swiss is even better.
D.A. Ridgely wrote:
03 Nov 2019, 20:49
provolone on steak & cheese subs
God how I wish provolone would just go away. It's next to flavorless. Go with just about any other cheese here. Swiss, Munster, chunks of Cheddar & Mozzarella mixed.
D.A. Ridgely wrote:
03 Nov 2019, 20:49
provolone on... French Onion soup.
OH FUCK NO Gruyere or GTFO. Seriously Get the fuck out of here with that.
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Jadagul
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Re: Capitalism: It works, bitches

Post by Jadagul »

American melts better and more cleanly than other cheeses and doesn't break if it gets too hot. Sometimes that's what you want.

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Aresen
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Re: Capitalism: It works, bitches

Post by Aresen »

A block of cheddar and a nice Granny Smith apple and a German white wine.
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Re: Capitalism: It works, bitches

Post by Warren »

Jadagul wrote:
03 Nov 2019, 21:36
American melts better and more cleanly than other cheeses and doesn't break if it gets too hot. Sometimes that's what you want.
Then go full Velveeta and be done with it. "American" cheese is strictly for semi-evolved troglodytes with 50 word vocabularies and no experience with flatware. No exceptions.
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Warren
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Re: Capitalism: It works, bitches

Post by Warren »

Aresen wrote:
03 Nov 2019, 21:46
A block of cheddar and a nice Granny Smith apple and a German white wine.
I can't fault you on the paring, but the Granny Smith is too tart, and the German white is too dry for my taste.
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Re: Capitalism: It works, bitches

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Warren wrote:
03 Nov 2019, 21:47
Jadagul wrote:
03 Nov 2019, 21:36
American melts better and more cleanly than other cheeses and doesn't break if it gets too hot. Sometimes that's what you want.
Then go full Velveeta and be done with it. "American" cheese is strictly for semi-evolved troglodytes with 50 word vocabularies and no experience with flatware. No exceptions.
Admit it Jadagul, he's described you to a tee!

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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: Capitalism: It works, bitches

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

Warren wrote:
03 Nov 2019, 21:22
D.A. Ridgely wrote:
03 Nov 2019, 20:49
Cheddar or "American" slices on hamburgers
"American" cheese is never the best cheese. Sharp Cheddar is fine, aged Swiss is even better.
D.A. Ridgely wrote:
03 Nov 2019, 20:49
provolone on steak & cheese subs
God how I wish provolone would just go away. It's next to flavorless. Go with just about any other cheese here. Swiss, Munster, chunks of Cheddar & Mozzarella mixed.
D.A. Ridgely wrote:
03 Nov 2019, 20:49
provolone on... French Onion soup.
OH FUCK NO Gruyere or GTFO. Seriously Get the fuck out of here with that.
American cheese is what all sentient beings prefer on their roadside burgers. Cheddar at home, but not sharp cheddar; civilized people recognize that the cheese flavor should not overpower the flavor of the meat.

Provolone melts properly and, again, doesn't overpower the steak. "Chunks of Cheddar and Mozzarella"? What are you, Hawaiian?

Gruyere is acceptable on French Onion soup. It may even be an improvement, now that I think of it, but provolone is the standard in most of the places I've had it and it's perfectly cromulent. Again, it's the cheese's ability to melt properly and not to overpower the other ingredients that's key.

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Jadagul
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Re: Capitalism: It works, bitches

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Warren wrote:
03 Nov 2019, 21:47
Jadagul wrote:
03 Nov 2019, 21:36
American melts better and more cleanly than other cheeses and doesn't break if it gets too hot. Sometimes that's what you want.
Then go full Velveeta and be done with it. "American" cheese is strictly for semi-evolved troglodytes with 50 word vocabularies and no experience with flatware. No exceptions.
Sorry, Warren, I'm gonna go with Kenji over you.

https://www.seriouseats.com/2016/07/wha ... heese.html

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Warren
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Re: Capitalism: It works, bitches

Post by Warren »

Jadagul wrote:
03 Nov 2019, 22:10
Warren wrote:
03 Nov 2019, 21:47
Jadagul wrote:
03 Nov 2019, 21:36
American melts better and more cleanly than other cheeses and doesn't break if it gets too hot. Sometimes that's what you want.
Then go full Velveeta and be done with it. "American" cheese is strictly for semi-evolved troglodytes with 50 word vocabularies and no experience with flatware. No exceptions.
Sorry, Warren, I'm gonna go with Kenji over you.

https://www.seriouseats.com/2016/07/wha ... heese.html
That article spells out in detail why "American" cheese is literally garbage.
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Warren
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Re: Capitalism: It works, bitches

Post by Warren »

D.A. Ridgely wrote:
03 Nov 2019, 22:01
Gruyere is acceptable on French Onion soup. It may even be an improvement, now that I think of it, but provolone is the standard in most of the places I've had it and it's perfectly cromulent. Again, it's the cheese's ability to melt properly and not to overpower the other ingredients that's key.
Not just no. FUCK NO
NO NO NO NO NO
I will accept Swiss or Fontina, but not Provolone. NEVER PROVOLONE. If the places you get your French Onion Soup top it with Provolone they might as well serve it in a trough and you'd likely prefer it that way.
If anyone served me French Onion Soup topped with Provolone and the soup was scalding hot, I'd dump it over their head, else I'd throw the crock at their head. This isn't funny. This isn't even sacrilege, this is assault. People should be locked in a cage for such acts.
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Re: Capitalism: It works, bitches

Post by Jennifer »

Warren wrote:
04 Nov 2019, 00:48
Jadagul wrote:
03 Nov 2019, 22:10
Warren wrote:
03 Nov 2019, 21:47
Jadagul wrote:
03 Nov 2019, 21:36
American melts better and more cleanly than other cheeses and doesn't break if it gets too hot. Sometimes that's what you want.
Then go full Velveeta and be done with it. "American" cheese is strictly for semi-evolved troglodytes with 50 word vocabularies and no experience with flatware. No exceptions.
Sorry, Warren, I'm gonna go with Kenji over you.

https://www.seriouseats.com/2016/07/wha ... heese.html
That article spells out in detail why "American" cheese is literally garbage.
There's something ironic that, on a thread praising capitalism, Warren should sneer at a product with this history:
The process itself was invented in Switzerland, in an effort to reduce cheese waste; scraps from various batches of cheese could be melted together and formed into a new, delicious product. In 1916, Canadian-American entrepreneur and cheese salesman James Kraft perfected the technique in the US, patented it, and started selling the very first process American cheese. It soon became immensely popular due to its long shelf life and easy shipping.
Taking something that would be useless waste and figuring out how to turn it into a popular and useful product, profiting greatly thereby? That's practically the Platonic ideal of capitalism!

Take some liberal arts classes, Warren, and this time, pay attention.
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JasonL
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Re: Capitalism: It works, bitches

Post by JasonL »

I mean I’m a gruyere on onion soup guy but ... maybe not as much as Warren.

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Re: Capitalism: It works, bitches

Post by JasonL »

I’m a jack cheese guy for random burger and steak sandwich type melting applications. It melts smoothly but has more flavor.

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Re: Capitalism: It works, bitches

Post by Warren »

I may have gotten a touch over dramatic there.
I have very strong feelings about cheese.
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Re: Capitalism: It works, bitches

Post by Andrew »

Warren wrote:
04 Nov 2019, 09:08
I may have gotten a touch over dramatic there.
I have very strong feelings about cheese.
A mouse avatar would be more appropriate than the frog.
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Re: Capitalism: It works, bitches

Post by Warren »

Andrew wrote:
04 Nov 2019, 09:15
Warren wrote:
04 Nov 2019, 09:08
I may have gotten a touch over dramatic there.
I have very strong feelings about cheese.
A mouse avatar would be more appropriate than the frog.
Nah, mice are cheese sluts. I am a cheese connoisseur.
JasonL wrote:
04 Nov 2019, 09:05
I’m a jack cheese guy for random burger and steak sandwich type melting applications. It melts smoothly but has more flavor.
Oh, good call. Jack on cow works well. I might even suggest Pepper Jack, though I fear your feelings on peppers may similarly run a little... wait for it... hot.
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Re: Capitalism: It works, bitches

Post by lunchstealer »

I don't love pepperjack just because I feel like if you want two things on your burger you should put two things on your burger rather than just imbedding one thing in the other thing and then putting the other thing on the burger. But then again I also am very on board with roasted/diced hatch/poblano/anaheim on burgers and that pepperjack is cargo cult chiles on a burger.
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Re: Capitalism: It works, bitches

Post by Warren »

Yeah. I feel like dialing in the capsaicin to three significant figures is the art and the science while discounting the importance of the delivery vehicle.
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Jennifer
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Re: Capitalism: It works, bitches

Post by Jennifer »

Speaking of processed cheese, in a lot of Atlanta-area immigrant markets -- especially those catering to people from various parts of the Middle East or southwest Asia -- they all carry a certain brand product which I've never seen in standard American food stores: small shelf-stable cans of Kraft cheese. Not cheese sauce, cheese spread, spray cheese or "cheese product," all of which can be easily found here, just "cheese," presumably the same or very similar cheese James Kraft first sold in 1916, when none of his customers had refrigerators and IIRC even iceboxes were mainly urban or big-town things (an icebox is useless unless you have access to a regular source of ice).
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Re: Capitalism: It works, bitches

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

So, on the one hand, we have me and Anthony Bourdain (admittedly unlikely to weigh in here and now) in favor of American cheese, for all its limitations, on genuine American cheeseburgers and on the other hand we have Warren, our soi-disant cheese connoisseur. I like my odds.

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