The Not-So- and All-Too-Real World of North Korea

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Mo
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Re: The Not-So- and All-Too-Real World of North Korea

Post by Mo » 02 Jul 2019, 16:50

“Why are people making such a big deal about being nice with North Korea? After all, we allied with a monarchy to gain our independence.” That is not an exaggeration of what is easily the stupidest defense of Trumps handjob to KJU ever. Also unstated, why should we be friends with KSA to halt Iranian ambitions, when we can do the exact opposite?

https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/07/ ... -to-today/
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Aresen
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Re: The Not-So- and All-Too-Real World of North Korea

Post by Aresen » 02 Jul 2019, 17:10

Mo wrote:
02 Jul 2019, 16:50
“Why are people making such a big deal about being nice with North Korea? After all, we allied with a monarchy to gain our independence.” That is not an exaggeration of what is easily the stupidest defense of Trumps handjob to KJU ever. Also unstated, why should we be friends with KSA to halt Iranian ambitions, when we can do the exact opposite?

https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/07/ ... -to-today/
It was the untimely death of Roosevelt and the unceremonious electoral ouster of Churchill that gave Stalin the upper hand after the war when those two giants were replaced by the eminently unqualified Truman and Atlee. It was a grievous injustice to leave much of the continent American troops had fought to set free from Fascist tyranny under the yoke of a different form of dictatorial oppression, this time of the left-wing variety. Eisenhower’s decision to sideline Patton’s plan to take the fight to the Soviets and emancipate Europe from the Pyrenees to the steppe was shortsighted, condemning millions in Eastern Europe to the terror of Soviet domination and plunging the United States into decades of Cold War with Moscow.
OFFS. Just what koolaid is this idiot drinking to imagine that the US could eliminate the Soviet Union?

Also, though I agree Atlee was an idiot, Truman never was particularly accommodating to Uncle Joe.
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Shem
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Re: The Not-So- and All-Too-Real World of North Korea

Post by Shem » 02 Jul 2019, 17:23

Or to ignore the fact that the places where US and British troops fought did not in fact wind up under Soviet hegemony. Warsaw was liberated from Nazis by Soviets, not westerners.
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Re: The Not-So- and All-Too-Real World of North Korea

Post by thoreau » 02 Jul 2019, 17:47

All that a plausible alt-history might get you is a smaller or non-existent East Germany, if the US and British had been able to move faster in a scenario where some non-crazy factor changes. You'd need a hell of a timeline change to get the US and British into Poland before the Soviets. And that timeline would need to explain how Germany has been weakened to the point where the Western Allies can get that far even though the Soviets haven't reversed as many Nazi gains.
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Mo
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The Not-So- and All-Too-Real World of North Korea

Post by Mo » 02 Jul 2019, 18:16

Also, that scenario requires the Germans not surrendering when the US/UK have already captured the entirety of Germany.
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Re: The Not-So- and All-Too-Real World of North Korea

Post by lunchstealer » 02 Jul 2019, 18:40

Aresen wrote:
02 Jul 2019, 17:10
It was a grievous injustice to leave much of the continent American troops had fought to set free from Fascist tyranny under the yoke of a different form of dictatorial oppression, this time of the left-wing variety. Eisenhower’s decision to sideline Patton’s plan to take the fight to the Soviets and emancipate Europe from the Pyrenees to the steppe was shortsighted, condemning millions in Eastern Europe to the terror of Soviet domination and plunging the United States into decades of Cold War with Moscow.
OFFS. Just what koolaid is this idiot drinking to imagine that the US could eliminate the Soviet Union?

Also, though I agree Atlee was an idiot, Truman never was particularly accommodating to Uncle Joe.
I think one could charitably parse the blue sentence as saying "After American troops had fought to set Europe free from Fascist tyranny, it was a grievous injustice to leave much of the continent under the yoke of a different form of dictatorial oppression, this time of the left-wing variety."

But I don't see the Soviets losing to the US when the Germans couldn't beat them. Certainly not in any war that America had the gumption to fight right on the heels of the fight against Germany and Japan.
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Painboy
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Re: The Not-So- and All-Too-Real World of North Korea

Post by Painboy » 02 Jul 2019, 19:01

I also don't see how politically you could have convinced the people in the Western powers to immediately start a whole new war with someone who you had been giving aid to and telling everyone was your ally for the last several years.

Patton was a great general but a complete nutcase in any other aspect of life.

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Mo
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Re: The Not-So- and All-Too-Real World of North Korea

Post by Mo » 02 Jul 2019, 19:12

Also, for the KJU bromance to be worth it, you would have to get a single concession. Paying a ransom for Otto Warmbier’s near corpse doesn’t count.
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lunchstealer
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Re: The Not-So- and All-Too-Real World of North Korea

Post by lunchstealer » 02 Jul 2019, 19:15

And he was not wrong that the Reds were awful. But just because something is bad doesn't mean you go starting a land war in Asia with it.
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JD
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Re: The Not-So- and All-Too-Real World of North Korea

Post by JD » 03 Jul 2019, 11:01

lunchstealer wrote:
02 Jul 2019, 18:40
But I don't see the Soviets losing to the US when the Germans couldn't beat them. Certainly not in any war that America had the gumption to fight right on the heels of the fight against Germany and Japan.
I dunno - I'm not going to say it would have been easy, not by a long shot, but we could maybe at least have pushed them out of Eastern Europe. We would have had Western Europe (and Japan) as a base to operate from, while our manufacturing capacity would have been completely out of their range; we would likely have gotten the assistance of some Eastern European countries; the Soviets would have been fighting without Lend-Lease aid for a change. But it was politically completely untenable.
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