The Not-So- and All-Too-Real World of North Korea

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thoreau
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Re: The Not-So- and All-Too-Real World of North Korea

Post by thoreau » 29 Aug 2017, 22:49

Do we know that they are all just selfish gangsters? What if there are true-believing patriots prepared to die for their country?

I think the questions that matter are "How many of each?" and "In what roles?"

Governments go to great lengths to make sure that there are people who will launch a missile on command, even (especially?) in a hopeless war. Will they actually do it? Nobody anywhere knows for sure. The world will only find out in hardest way possible, if it comes to that.

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Kolohe
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Re: The Not-So- and All-Too-Real World of North Korea

Post by Kolohe » 29 Aug 2017, 22:53

Actually looking it up again, there's more octogenarians in the politburo than I thought.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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thoreau
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Re: The Not-So- and All-Too-Real World of North Korea

Post by thoreau » 22 Sep 2017, 16:54

North Korea wouldn't need a nuclear deterrent if the US valued the lives of the South Korean civilians who are hostages to Pyongyang's conventional arsenal.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
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Re: The Not-So- and All-Too-Real World of North Korea

Post by Kolohe » 22 Sep 2017, 23:36

Notsureifserious
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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thoreau
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Re: The Not-So- and All-Too-Real World of North Korea

Post by thoreau » 23 Sep 2017, 00:01

Mostly serious. Everything I've heard is that even with conventional weapons they could kill a few million South Koreans in short order. If they nonetheless want a nuclear deterrent it must be because they think those deaths would be insufficient to deter us. And they are, sadly, probably right.

Am I mistaken about their ability to rain hell on Seoul?
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
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Kolohe
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Re: The Not-So- and All-Too-Real World of North Korea

Post by Kolohe » 23 Sep 2017, 10:44

The fact that neither Bush jr nor Obama ever sent flying killer robots against the DPRK even after several causus bellis (like sinking a ROKN warship) shows that the US values the lives of the Seoul civilians.

Otherwise we would have treated Kim like Gaddafi or Assad.

The fact that Kim wants nukes (like his father before him) just means he wants the ultimate guarantee for regime security (which I still don't think is quite enough for a deterrence calculation.)
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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Shem
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Re: The Not-So- and All-Too-Real World of North Korea

Post by Shem » 23 Sep 2017, 11:33

The leadership doesn't want nukes because they think we don't care about South Korea. They want nukes because they've spent 60 years telling their people we don't care, and nukes are the only way to ratchet that down without admitting that was mostly propaganda.
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Re: The Not-So- and All-Too-Real World of North Korea

Post by thoreau » 23 Sep 2017, 12:15

Ok, makes sense.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
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Fin Fang Foom
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Re: The Not-So- and All-Too-Real World of North Korea

Post by Fin Fang Foom » 24 Sep 2017, 23:05

thoreau wrote:
23 Sep 2017, 12:15
Ok, makes sense.
The regime needs to convince it's people that life sucks due the U.S., and the only between them and annihilation is the Kims. To do that they have to always be on war footing and push for more and bigger weapons.

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Re: The Not-So- and All-Too-Real World of North Korea

Post by Sandy » 25 Sep 2017, 00:08

Hindu is the cricket of religions. You can observe it for years, you can have enthusiasts try to explain it to you, and it's still baffling. - Warren

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Ellie
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Re: The Not-So- and All-Too-Real World of North Korea

Post by Ellie » 25 Sep 2017, 00:11

in the droves

which droves?

THE droves
I should have listened to Warren. He was right again as usual.

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Re: The Not-So- and All-Too-Real World of North Korea

Post by dhex » 25 Sep 2017, 11:01

jfc that's stupid

eta: is it possible people don't understand the basics of n. korea in terms of lack of freedom of movement? that seems like the easiest most digestible factoid.
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Sandy
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Re: The Not-So- and All-Too-Real World of North Korea

Post by Sandy » 25 Sep 2017, 11:43

dhex wrote:
25 Sep 2017, 11:01
jfc that's stupid

eta: is it possible people don't understand the basics of n. korea in terms of lack of freedom of movement? that seems like the easiest most digestible factoid.
I'm willing to believe it with her. There are lots of LOLworthy tweets from her about how never mind the not driving in Saudi, there's no interest in Sharia so sounds pretty good in the face of student loans, huh?
Hindu is the cricket of religions. You can observe it for years, you can have enthusiasts try to explain it to you, and it's still baffling. - Warren

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nicole
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Re: The Not-So- and All-Too-Real World of North Korea

Post by nicole » 25 Sep 2017, 11:54

What is the reading of this tweet that makes Sarsour look bad? I saw people talking about it on Twitter but I just read it as, "You would think, since the administration wants to ban people from North Korea, that a lot of people from North Korea were coming, but they're not, of course, and this is just a fig leaf for a Muslim ban."
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Re: The Not-So- and All-Too-Real World of North Korea

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 25 Sep 2017, 12:08

As was the case in Europe, the stationing of U.S. troops in South Korea is an intentional tripwire, the reasoning being that even if the U.S. didn't care about the lives of South Koreans, outrage at the killing of those U.S. troops would necessitate a strong military response.

I note with some amusement that North Korea is among the travel restricted countries under Trump's latest diktat. That part of the U.S. tourist industry catering to North Korean tourists must be furious!

I have a solution, by the way, that should satisfy nearly everyone. Let's give China carte blanc to, oh, I don't know, let's say annex North Korea? Sure, South Korea wouldn't be all that keen and neither would Japan, but it would on balance improve the lives of North Koreans (not to mention 'protecting' them via China's nuclear arsenal!), acknowledge China's de facto sphere of influence and create more overall political stability in the region since the end of WW II.

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Shem
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Re: The Not-So- and All-Too-Real World of North Korea

Post by Shem » 25 Sep 2017, 17:52

China doesn't actually want that. Part of the goal is keeping a buffer between the US client state and themselves, so there are no misunderstandings with anyone who matters if their border guards decide to be the belligerent teenagers that in many cases, they are. Plus, they're trying to avoid the 3 million strong refugee crisis that they'd be looking at if Pyongyang fell. Having a 25 million strong refugee crisis would hardly be an improvement.
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Re: The Not-So- and All-Too-Real World of North Korea

Post by nicole » 26 Sep 2017, 10:02

Not that this is a surprise, but...
The first time Otto Warmbier's parents saw their son after he was flown back from North Korea in June, they were confronted with the sound of inhuman howling so terrifying Otto's mom ran off the plane.

As they waited for the plane bringing him back to Ohio, Otto’s parents, Fred and Cindy, had held on to hope that with medical care in the United States, he would eventually get better. That optimism didn't last long.

They instead saw the reality of torture at the hands of Kim Jong Un's brutal regime: their son was now blind and deaf, with mangled teeth, jerking violently and moaning on a stretcher with a feeding tube coming out of his nose.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/09/26/ot ... rists.html
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Re: The Not-So- and All-Too-Real World of North Korea

Post by pistoffnick » 26 Sep 2017, 17:37

Kim Jong Un and the Unremittingly Roomy Trousers:
https://imgur.com/gallery/dx7Xg
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JD
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Re: The Not-So- and All-Too-Real World of North Korea

Post by JD » 26 Sep 2017, 19:22

nicole wrote:
26 Sep 2017, 10:02
Not that this is a surprise, but...
Those poor people. I can't imagine how horrifying that must have been. That said, there is something a little odd in that the coroner's report doesn't mention anything like that - the coroner's report says that he's outwardly pretty unremarkable and even calls him "well-developed, well-nourished". I don't know what the truth is, but it makes me sad either way, because I'm sure people will point to this as evidence that someone is lying for political reasons.
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Kolohe
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Re: The Not-So- and All-Too-Real World of North Korea

Post by Kolohe » 26 Sep 2017, 19:39

pistoffnick wrote:
26 Sep 2017, 17:37
Kim Jong Un and the Unremittingly Roomy Trousers:
https://imgur.com/gallery/dx7Xg
His boys need the breathe. His uncle and brother don't, but his boys do.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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Mo
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Re: The Not-So- and All-Too-Real World of North Korea

Post by Mo » 26 Sep 2017, 19:58

Un is just fashion forward, JNCOs are back baby.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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dhex
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Re: The Not-So- and All-Too-Real World of North Korea

Post by dhex » 27 Sep 2017, 07:43

So ottos parents were just making stuff up.
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JasonL
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Re: The Not-So- and All-Too-Real World of North Korea

Post by JasonL » 27 Sep 2017, 11:05

dhex wrote:
27 Sep 2017, 07:43
So ottos parents were just making stuff up.
Is that a story from coroner or something? Link?

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nicole
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Re: The Not-So- and All-Too-Real World of North Korea

Post by nicole » 27 Sep 2017, 11:27

JasonL wrote:
27 Sep 2017, 11:05
dhex wrote:
27 Sep 2017, 07:43
So ottos parents were just making stuff up.
Is that a story from coroner or something? Link?
http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/20 ... 704656001/
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JD
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Re: The Not-So- and All-Too-Real World of North Korea

Post by JD » 01 Dec 2017, 10:59

This is a bizarre twist: Kim Jong Nam Had Antidote In Bag When He Died In Nerve Agent Attack
Just prior to an extended adjournment, the courtroom in Kuala Lumpur heard testimony Friday from toxicologist Dr. K. Sharmilah that in Kim's sling bag, he was carrying 12 vials of atropine, a general-purpose antidote for nerve agents that is often issued to soldiers in case of a chemical attack.
Was Kim tipped off that he might be assassinated with a nerve agent? Did he just know that that was the North Korean government's MO? Why didn't he try to use the antidote (panic? he didn't think he'd been attacked with a nerve agent? he did use it but it didn't work?)
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