Does Elon's Musk stink?

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Warren
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Warren » 09 Nov 2018, 08:22

Jadagul wrote:
09 Nov 2018, 01:35
And as an engineer, he's a brilliant publicist.
HA!
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Aresen » 25 Feb 2019, 20:03

The SEC has asked a judge to hold Elon Musk in contempt for violating his settlement with the agency
The U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission asked a judge to hold Elon Musk in contempt for violating his October 16 settlement with the agency.

Bloomberg News reported the news a bit ago. We’ve since obtained the agency’s complaint, though it is declining comment.

Tesla has yet to respond to our requests for more information.

At the crux of things: Last Tuesday night, Musk tweeted out to his 24 million followers that Tesla would make around 500,000 cars this year, correcting himself hours later to clarify that he meant the company would be producing at an annualized rate of 500,000 vehicles by year’s end.

The next morning, Tesla announced that its general counsel, Dane Butswinkas, is leaving after just months on the job.
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Warren » 23 Apr 2019, 12:32

Any other car than a Tesla in 3 years will be like ‘owning a horse’
“The fundamental message that consumers should be taking today is that it’s financially insane to buy anything other than a Tesla, ” the CEO of the electric auto maker said after Monday’s robotaxi announcement. “It would be like owning a horse in three years. I mean, fine if you want to own a horse. But you should go into it with that expectation.”
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Highway » 23 Apr 2019, 13:42

More and more, every word out of Musk's mouth seems like blatant and transparent attempts to try to convince people to prop up his failing car company, without Tesla actually doing anything that would make their cars not be old, tired designs with bad quality control. The continual vaporware announcements, the constant defensiveness, the severe contraction in the company, the bluster, the railing against shorting it's stock.

Musk is increasingly desperate, and he can't figure out how to have SpaceX fraudulently buy up Tesla, the way that Tesla fraudulently bought up SolarCity.
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by tr0g » 23 Apr 2019, 13:51

Somebody posted a video pf exploding batteries today. This is a known issue with rechargeable battery tech, and has known solutions. But Tesla just can't seem to figure this out. Everything on the chassis and body side has known solutions, too, but I guess they don't want to hire guys from Detroit to help with that because they'd rather reinvent the wheel poorly.
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by thoreau » 23 Apr 2019, 13:54

But they want to DISRUPT!!11! You can't DISRUPT!!11! if you are learning from other people.
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Warren » 23 Apr 2019, 14:08

thoreau wrote:
23 Apr 2019, 13:54
But they want to DISRUPT!!11! You can't DISRUPT!!11! if you are learning from other people.
That was my old roommate's approach to music.
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Mo » 25 May 2019, 15:16

OFFS. This is dumb even by Musk’s standards.

https://jalopnik.com/elon-musk-says-hyp ... 1835024474
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Painboy » 25 May 2019, 15:29

Mo wrote:
25 May 2019, 15:16
OFFS. This is dumb even by Musk’s standards.

https://jalopnik.com/elon-musk-says-hyp ... 1835024474
I would have loved to be a fly on wall to observe how the original vision got talked down to this. What were the mental gymnastics needed to convince themselves that this was worthy of a press release and not something that should have just been quietly killed off?

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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Ellie » 25 May 2019, 17:31

WOW.
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Highway » 26 Aug 2019, 19:17

Maybe the cracks in the empire are really glaring if Vanity Fair is ready to excoriate Musk.
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Painboy » 26 Aug 2019, 19:45

Highway wrote:
26 Aug 2019, 19:17
Maybe the cracks in the empire are really glaring if Vanity Fair is ready to excoriate Musk.
Yeah I had been reading about SolarCity the last few months. Sounds like a mess.

As far as Musk goes, he might be enviro friendly with his cars, but he's still a tech bro and perception wise they are turning into the modern day Robber Barons. Throw in some tax payer funded corporate boondoggles and any good will is likely gone.

I'm also curious if local governments are ever going to stop said tax payer funded corporate boondoggles. How many of these things have to implode before enough is enough?

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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Warren » 26 Aug 2019, 19:53

Painboy wrote:
26 Aug 2019, 19:45
I'm also curious if local governments are ever going to stop said tax payer funded corporate boondoggles. How many of these things have to implode before enough is enough?
I see zero indication that whenever one of them goes under anybody questions the fundamental soundness of using tax dollars to get what you want from corporations. There's just the autopsy to look for the particular corprate cancer that corrupted this boondoggle.
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Aresen » 26 Aug 2019, 20:02

Warren wrote:
26 Aug 2019, 19:53
Painboy wrote:
26 Aug 2019, 19:45
I'm also curious if local governments are ever going to stop said tax payer funded corporate boondoggles. How many of these things have to implode before enough is enough?
I see zero indication that whenever one of them goes under anybody questions the fundamental soundness of using tax dollars to get what you want from corporations. There's just the autopsy to look for the particular corprate cancer that corrupted this boondoggle.
This. Politicians just want to wave the 'job creation' flag and will continue to throw taxpayer money at con men.
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Mo » 28 Aug 2019, 08:31

The king of all boondoggles is the Wisconsin Foxconn deal. The ‘beauty’ for politicians is that when they go sour, they’re someone else’s problem. Though Foxconn was so bad that if Walker won last fall he’d have to suck it up.
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by JasonL » 28 Aug 2019, 09:11

Jerbs not campaign finance are the primary vector for political influence. Whether you see this as unreasonable in a democracy kinda depends on how you view the desperation of the voting public to get jerbs in their area. I don't think it's notably undemocratic because I think for a great many politicians, when they go home the essential message is "fck everything else do everything humanly possible to get more jobs here", and they respond to that pressure. It's not "good", but it is probably pretty much what democracy is going to look like.

ETA: yes this is another installment in my ever expanding series "things look like this because this is what people want".

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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Hugh Akston » 08 Oct 2019, 17:54

Elon Musk fabricated allegations about a British cave rescuer he called a “pedo guy” and oversaw the attempted leak of that unproven information to the press, according to a set of stunning accusations in an ongoing defamation lawsuit against the Tesla Motors and SpaceX CEO.
Last month, Musk’s legal team filed to have Unsworth’s suit dismissed on the grounds that the Tesla chief executive did not initially mean for “pedo guy” to be taken factually and that he was simply asking questions when he hired a private investigator to look into Unsworth. The cave rescuer is seeking at least $75,000 in compensatory damages and unspecified punitive damages to be determined by a court.
Musk, in recent statements submitted to the court, claimed that those statements were made based on information provided to one of his employees by a contracted private investigator. Unsworth’s lawyers dispute this, claiming that the investigator — who BuzzFeed News revealed to be a convicted fraudster named James Howard-Higgins — never expressed to Jared Birchall, the head of Musk’s family office tasked with communicating with the investigator, that Unsworth’s Thai partner was 12 years old when they supposedly married.
Beyond the investigator’s basic background research for which he was paid $52,000, Birchall also offered Howard-Higgins a $10,000 bonus “for successful confirmation of nefarious behavior” and asked that the hired gun help orchestrate a leak campaign about Unsworth in the UK and Australian press. Using email addresses with the names “bangkokjohn” and “bangkokhilton,” Howard-Higgins messaged journalists at places like the Sun with an email template composed by Birchall about Thailand as “the world capital of pedophilia” and Unsworth’s supposed meetups with teenagers.

“We would like you to immediately move forward with ‘leaking’ this information to the UK press,” Birchall wrote to Howard-Higgins around Aug. 28, 2018. “Obviously must be done very carefully.”
Musk similarly admits that he was duped by the Howard-Higgins, the supposed private investigator. Having emailed Musk and his employees out of the blue with a promise to dig up dirt on Unsworth, Howard-Higgins was hired with little due diligence and without an examination of a criminal past that included defrauding past business partners out of more than $500,000.
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Aresen » 08 Oct 2019, 23:17

Hugh Akston wrote:
08 Oct 2019, 17:54
Musk calls himself “a fucking idiot”
I'll concede that point.
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Highway » 25 Nov 2019, 16:24

With every day that passes, I go more and more in the "Musk is a shyster and a dangerous person" camp. And this Cybertruck, no matter what the Tesla fanboys in my FB feed want, will be vaporware. But they've still floated Musk another cash infusion (which is what he needs more than anything else at this point) in putting deposits down on something that will not be delivered.

Although I shouldn't have expected much from someone who was integral in the creation of PayPal (the idea that everyone wanted, done by one of the worst companies).
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by JD » 25 Nov 2019, 16:50

Highway wrote:
25 Nov 2019, 16:24
With every day that passes, I go more and more in the "Musk is a shyster and a dangerous person" camp. And this Cybertruck, no matter what the Tesla fanboys in my FB feed want, will be vaporware. But they've still floated Musk another cash infusion (which is what he needs more than anything else at this point) in putting deposits down on something that will not be delivered.

Although I shouldn't have expected much from someone who was integral in the creation of PayPal (the idea that everyone wanted, done by one of the worst companies).
Oh, I think the Cybertruck will definitely be a real thing. I do not agree with the Tesla fanboys about how IT WILL BE THE GREATEST THING EVER AND TOTALLY CHANGE THE INDUSTRY blah blah blah, but I'm sure it will be a real and eventually usable truck: Tesla is already producing real vehicles. I do agree that the Cult of Elon is definitely permitting Tesla to skate through what would otherwise be really trying financial times - I mean, Musk could basically say, "Hey, everybody, I'm going to take a steaming dump on a paper plate five years from now" and the fanboys would line up to give him an interest-free loan.
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by JD » 25 Nov 2019, 16:52

I posted this in "cars and how they get that way" but it probably makes more sense here:

You know, despite all the mockery of the design of the Tesla Cybertruck, I think the design might have been very intentional. Musk claims that the angular design was necessary because "you can’t stamp ultra-hard 30X steel, because it breaks the stamping press" but people have been making monocoque designs for about a hundred years, and most of them have not looked like that. And it occurred to me, what if Tesla had announced the Cybertruck, but instead it had looked virtually identical to, say, a Dodge Ram? I don't think it would have gotten nearly as much press. (I doubt the window-breaking thing was intentional, though...)

And a guy on Reddit, who seems to have some idea what he's talking about, comments
30X steel is really 300 series which is usually abbreviated 3xx stainless. I'm guessing the 30X moniker is intentional because it gives the impression that it's 30 times...whatever...of other steels. Based on reports from SpaceX it's a slightly tweaked version of 301 stainless. Yes, it's "their own alloy" as I'm sure someone will point out, but it will be broadly pretty similar to existing alloys. If it was radically different it would no longer be the same alloy. 300 series stainless steels are specifically made for formability and machinability. Yes, it does work harden but that doesn't mean you can't stamp it, it just means it's slightly harder to do it and you risk cracking the steel if you overdo it. Copper is the same but is still readily stamped. Doesn't morph into a super-metal or anything.

In terms of hardness, fully hard 301 is pretty hard (HRC40-ish range) but I wouldn't call it "ultra" hard. For example you wouldn't use it for bearings, at least I have never seen it in that application. There are plenty of stainless steels, regular steels, and tool steels that are much harder. Hardness in practical terms really relates to scratch/dent resistance on a small scale, it doesn't directly imply anything about the actual strength of a structure or part. Going through these points is a common ME interview question to see if candidates understand what "hardness" means.

Short version, it is absolutely formable. It's quite strong but not exceptionally so (there are much stronger stainless steels such as 17-4PH that are a proper bitch to machine and are $$$ to boot). It can be pretty hard if actually fully hardened, but again is not exceptionally so especially in the annealed state. Don't take my word for it, these material specs are readily available online. From a metal supplier datasheet:
Type 301 is an austenitic stainless steel with a nominal composition of 17 percent chromium and 7 percent nickel, which provides good strength and ductility when cold worked. It also has excellent corrosion resistance properties. 301 is well suited to welding and forming and drawing.
Short short version: it's definitely a high-grade material, but it's not a super metal. If it broke your stamping press it's because you either exceeded the specs of the press, or designed bad tooling. Finally, cold-rolled steel is nothing new in the automotive world and the grades of steel currently used for unibodies and light truck frames are very high quality as well.
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Highway » 25 Nov 2019, 17:24

JD wrote:
25 Nov 2019, 16:50
Highway wrote:
25 Nov 2019, 16:24
With every day that passes, I go more and more in the "Musk is a shyster and a dangerous person" camp. And this Cybertruck, no matter what the Tesla fanboys in my FB feed want, will be vaporware. But they've still floated Musk another cash infusion (which is what he needs more than anything else at this point) in putting deposits down on something that will not be delivered.

Although I shouldn't have expected much from someone who was integral in the creation of PayPal (the idea that everyone wanted, done by one of the worst companies).
Oh, I think the Cybertruck will definitely be a real thing. I do not agree with the Tesla fanboys about how IT WILL BE THE GREATEST THING EVER AND TOTALLY CHANGE THE INDUSTRY blah blah blah, but I'm sure it will be a real and eventually usable truck: Tesla is already producing real vehicles. I do agree that the Cult of Elon is definitely permitting Tesla to skate through what would otherwise be really trying financial times - I mean, Musk could basically say, "Hey, everybody, I'm going to take a steaming dump on a paper plate five years from now" and the fanboys would line up to give him an interest-free loan.
We'll see. There has been nothing about the 2020 Roadster since it was announced (for a cash infusion) and we're now in the 2020 model year. Tesla has been delaying as much as they can on the cheapest Model 3's, because they don't want to sell them, to the point that I think they've either convinced everyone who had a deposit on one to buy a more expensive model or to cancel their order. Many of the Tesla shorters think that they have now fulfilled most of their pre-orders for the Model 3, and now they're just not getting many more. They haven't done a significant update of the Model S (2012) or Model X (2015) and are now selling fairly old designs. And their quality control is still crap.

On top of that, Musk is a spectacularly compromised person. I believe Warren Meyer when he points out that the sale of SolarCity to Tesla was a fraudulent deal meant to rescue Musk's family. Plus, the fact that Musk will try to SWAT his (former) employees for pointing out the problems at his plants, really doesn't make me think he's a person worth dealing with.
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by JD » 25 Nov 2019, 17:28

I flipped through this thread to look at some of Musk's and our past predictions. Remember when everybody was so gaga about Hyperloop? So far work on Hyperloop seems to have extended to a bunch of agreements to make project plans, and a bunch of experiments on the basic technology. And what about that brick store that the Boring Company was going to open? I know that businesses don't get opened overnight, but there has been no word at all on it in the past year. I'm still wondering about Musk's claims of sabotage at his plants; never did hear anything more about that.
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Mo » 25 Nov 2019, 18:52

Also, unless you’re at risk of being assassinated, don’t you want to be able to break a window in case of emergency. unbreakable windows are a bug, not a feature, unless you’re some sort of dictator.
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 25 Nov 2019, 21:29

The Elon Musk skeptics will probably enjoy Episode 3 of this season's Rick & Morty.

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