Does Elon's Musk stink?

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JasonL
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by JasonL » 09 Apr 2016, 20:06

Still, agree with Warren I would not have intuited it'd be worth it. Rocket science must be hard or something.

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Highway
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Highway » 24 Jun 2016, 11:01

There's an awful lot of "ehhhh, really?" from the idea of Tesla buying SolarCity. I am not really seeing the benefit, and I think a lot of people are afraid that it's a shell game prop-up of SolarCity.
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JasonL
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by JasonL » 24 Jun 2016, 11:45

Dude starts sounding a bit more unhinged every time I hear him speak. Like he's trying to convince himself of something. That wacky valuation statement he made about 1 trillion. I mean, you haven't sold very many cars dude.

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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Painboy » 24 Jun 2016, 15:50

The only angles I see are that Tesla has a lot of experience with battery and energy efficiency that might useful when combined with solar energy. The other would be they are looking to get subsides or tax credits.

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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Highway » 24 Jun 2016, 16:01

The biggest problem with that point is that Tesla was already planning to buy from SolarCity for the Gigafactory. There was no reason not to, it was already a done deal. And they could fairly easily share technology, since they're fairly close companies.

The only explanation that would make any sense to me that's not "Let's boost up SolarCity's stock price and make a bunch of money" is "We think the Tesla brand is more leverageable than SolarCity in growing the business." And that's not really the point they're making.
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Mo » 24 Jun 2016, 16:12

I think it's more, Tesla can more easily and cheaply gain access to debt/equity markets than Solar City, so it's a better way to get cash that the company is currently setting on fire.
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Fin Fang Foom » 24 Jun 2016, 16:16

I ain't gonna play Solar City.
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Mo » 16 Sep 2016, 09:18

The Chevy Bolt has got to be bad news for Tesla. GM beat them to the long range (longer than the advertised range of the Model 3) $30K all electric car by a year. Granted, it's GM, so it doesn't do as much for signaling. The Bolt seems like it's the perfect 2nd car for a household.
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JasonL
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by JasonL » 16 Sep 2016, 09:58

It would have been really impressive if they could have hit a sub 30k MSRP. They may need to rebrand away from Chevy if they are trying to move these things at $37k.

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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Highway » 16 Sep 2016, 10:07

Well, kinda. Almost none of those people who put down 1000 bucks for a Model 3 at some point in the future are going to go out and buy a Bolt. It's still a Chevy, and it's a stripped down teeny hatchback, because you need a tiny, light car to 1) get that range with an electric vehicle, and 2) meet that price point with an electric vehicle. I'd imagine it will have the same horrible human interface design, materials, and build quality of every GM vehicle besides the Corvette (The Corvette still has some of those problems, just in a different way). There's still wonky design in it. Seriously, what the fuck is with a 'Recharge paddle'? Every other manufacturer figured out how to integrate regenerative braking into the same brake pedal that everyone knows how to use. It's nearly flawless in my Accord Hybrid. But Chevy needs to put it on a stupid paddle as another control?

And it still has a lot of drawbacks that EVs have. You can't just go out and buy one and stick it in your garage and expect it to be the same. You need to provide charging infrastructure. The Leaf's small battery is probably about the biggest you can realistically, regularly charge from 110V, 15A. The Bolt's is twice as big. You need at least a level 2 charger. And to get that at home you need to buy a charger (they were $1500, I'd imagine they'll come down to about $800) and have an electrician put it in, and for a lot of people, that's going to mean upgrades to their electrical panel. So that's adding $2000 to $3000 to the price of your (already expensive for what you get in comparison to other cars) car.

Don't get me wrong: I like EVs. I was going to buy one, but the negatives just keep adding up when you start looking at them. I think most of those things will get worked out moving forward. But people don't buy a Chevy Spark as a "second car", why would they buy an Electric Spark?
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by JasonL » 16 Sep 2016, 10:25

There is that. Also, if you are a green type person you also have to do serious thinking if your power is delivered via coal. I mean it's better in carbon to do coal to EV than to burn it in the car, but not that much better.

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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Highway » 16 Sep 2016, 10:31

JasonL wrote:There is that. Also, if you are a green type person you also have to do serious thinking if your power is delivered via coal. I mean it's better in carbon to do coal to EV than to burn it in the car, but not that much better.
Yeah, but that's also something that's going to change. And many people can choose their electricity supplier (even if it actually comes from the same power plant) to go with something that's less carbon-intensive.

And if electricity demand goes up because of electric cars, nobody's going to be building coal plants to increase the supply.
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by JasonL » 16 Sep 2016, 10:33

I don't know how many people have a more carbon friendly choice and I don't know if that will change for at least a decade or more.

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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Sandy » 16 Sep 2016, 10:36

I'd like to see someone build a better version of the Chevy Volt. It cures range anxiety and burns fuel at the most efficient rate. If they make it a plugin, you have the best of both worlds.
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Highway » 16 Sep 2016, 10:41

JasonL wrote:I don't know how many people have a more carbon friendly choice and I don't know if that will change for at least a decade or more.
I had thought there were more states with Retail choice for electricity than there are. But the states that do have it cover an awful lot of people. And even without choices, suppliers are still moving away from coal. People just need to acknowledge that it's a slow moving industry, with loooooong lead times and payoff horizons, so it's not going to change right away.
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Highway » 16 Sep 2016, 10:50

Sandy wrote:I'd like to see someone build a better version of the Chevy Volt. It cures range anxiety and burns fuel at the most efficient rate. If they make it a plugin, you have the best of both worlds.
Honda did. I have the non-plugin version of it. The non-plugins were so supply limited that I waited 2 months for one. Toyota did with the Plug-in Prius. The 2017 Prius Prime gets 22 miles on electric. And really, 40 miles vs 14 or 22 miles on plug-in power isn't a big difference for most commuting. I'd even argue that 40 miles is too much for most people. You *need* to use the gas in a car. You don't want it just sitting there perpetually. I go 700 miles between fillups on my Honda Accord Hybrid, which works out to 5-6 weeks for me. If I had a plugin, even the Accord plugin with 14 mile range, that would go to something like a year if I plugged it in every day.

ETA: If you're talking efficiency in hybrid mode, the Volt was pretty terrible. I think people got something like 35-38 mpg from it in hybrid mode, which is atrocious for a hybrid in normal driving.
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Taktix® » 16 Sep 2016, 11:32

Highway wrote:
JasonL wrote:I don't know how many people have a more carbon friendly choice and I don't know if that will change for at least a decade or more.
I had thought there were more states with Retail choice for electricity than there are. But the states that do have it cover an awful lot of people. And even without choices, suppliers are still moving away from coal. People just need to acknowledge that it's a slow moving industry, with loooooong lead times and payoff horizons, so it's not going to change right away.
I think quite a few states re-regulated after the Enron kerfuffle...
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Sandy » 16 Sep 2016, 14:14

Highway wrote:
Sandy wrote:I'd like to see someone build a better version of the Chevy Volt. It cures range anxiety and burns fuel at the most efficient rate. If they make it a plugin, you have the best of both worlds.
Honda did. I have the non-plugin version of it. The non-plugins were so supply limited that I waited 2 months for one. Toyota did with the Plug-in Prius. The 2017 Prius Prime gets 22 miles on electric. And really, 40 miles vs 14 or 22 miles on plug-in power isn't a big difference for most commuting. I'd even argue that 40 miles is too much for most people. You *need* to use the gas in a car. You don't want it just sitting there perpetually. I go 700 miles between fillups on my Honda Accord Hybrid, which works out to 5-6 weeks for me. If I had a plugin, even the Accord plugin with 14 mile range, that would go to something like a year if I plugged it in every day.

ETA: If you're talking efficiency in hybrid mode, the Volt was pretty terrible. I think people got something like 35-38 mpg from it in hybrid mode, which is atrocious for a hybrid in normal driving.
I didn't think the Volt was a hybrid. My impression was that it only ran the motor to power the batteries, not the drivetrain.
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Highway » 16 Sep 2016, 14:41

Sandy wrote:
Highway wrote:
Sandy wrote:I'd like to see someone build a better version of the Chevy Volt. It cures range anxiety and burns fuel at the most efficient rate. If they make it a plugin, you have the best of both worlds.
Honda did. I have the non-plugin version of it. The non-plugins were so supply limited that I waited 2 months for one. Toyota did with the Plug-in Prius. The 2017 Prius Prime gets 22 miles on electric. And really, 40 miles vs 14 or 22 miles on plug-in power isn't a big difference for most commuting. I'd even argue that 40 miles is too much for most people. You *need* to use the gas in a car. You don't want it just sitting there perpetually. I go 700 miles between fillups on my Honda Accord Hybrid, which works out to 5-6 weeks for me. If I had a plugin, even the Accord plugin with 14 mile range, that would go to something like a year if I plugged it in every day.

ETA: If you're talking efficiency in hybrid mode, the Volt was pretty terrible. I think people got something like 35-38 mpg from it in hybrid mode, which is atrocious for a hybrid in normal driving.
I didn't think the Volt was a hybrid. My impression was that it only ran the motor to power the batteries, not the drivetrain.
Nope, that was what people thought, but when it came out, it was revealed instead that it could directly drive the wheels. So it wasn't a true serial hybrid.

My Honda Accord Hybrid runs basically the same way that the Volt does, in that the primary motive power comes from an electric motor, and the engine primarily drives a generator. But it also has a single-speed direct drive from the engine to the wheels which can engage through a single clutch at speeds over 40 MPH. Honda found that this was more efficient than continuing to power the generator, so the car will switch between any of the three modes as needed: For passing power, like when your normal car would kick down a gear, it will switch back to electric drive and rev the engine higher. For cruising, the engine will come on, engage, drive the car for a while while charging the battery, and then shut off.

It turns out that this is more efficient than a vehicle that is solely a serial hybrid. The single-speed drive doesn't add a lot of weight or complexity, and is definitely more efficient (and nicer to listen to at highway speeds than the engine revved up).
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by thoreau » 05 Oct 2016, 11:42

Boeing CEO jabs SpaceX, says Mars explorers will ride his rocket

Could also go under "Shamelessly Currying Favor With Ellie."
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Taktix® » 22 Nov 2016, 11:33

NASA claims to have a working EmDrive: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016 ... 43133518=1

That Musk sure is getting more palatable...
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Painboy » 22 Nov 2016, 19:07

Taktix® wrote:NASA claims to have a working EmDrive: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016 ... 43133518=1

That Musk sure is getting more palatable...
Until they actually understand why it works I remain unimpressed.

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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Aresen » 22 Nov 2016, 20:16

Painboy wrote:
Taktix® wrote:NASA claims to have a working EmDrive: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016 ... 43133518=1

That Musk sure is getting more palatable...
Until they actually understand why it works I remain unimpressed.
I think I will just go out and dust off my Bergenholm.
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by thoreau » 22 Nov 2016, 20:25

A good science writer is unimpressed.

http://arstechnica.com/science/2016/11/ ... ruster/#p3

The graphic at the top of the article says everything you need to know.

Image
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Mo » 22 Nov 2016, 20:45

Painboy wrote:
Taktix® wrote:NASA claims to have a working EmDrive: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016 ... 43133518=1

That Musk sure is getting more palatable...
Until they actually understand why it works I remain unimpressed.
I disagree with this. Human history is littered with stuff that we used for great effect long before we understood why it worked. We were able to work with fire for millennia before we understood why it worked.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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