Does Elon's Musk stink?

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dbcooper
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by dbcooper » 22 Nov 2016, 20:46

IIRC, it's producing very little thrust, so it could just be something like an interaction with earth's magnetic field?
Slip inside a sleeping bag.

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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Jadagul » 22 Nov 2016, 20:53

dbcooper wrote:IIRC, it's producing very little thrust, so it could just be something like an interaction with earth's magnetic field?
That's my engineer friend's guess.

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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Painboy » 22 Nov 2016, 21:12

Mo wrote:
Painboy wrote:
Taktix® wrote:NASA claims to have a working EmDrive: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016 ... 43133518=1

That Musk sure is getting more palatable...
Until they actually understand why it works I remain unimpressed.
I disagree with this. Human history is littered with stuff that we used for great effect long before we understood why it worked. We were able to work with fire for millennia before we understood why it worked.
They may not have known the exact properties but they knew if they did A then B followed. This doesn't even meet that threshold. They don't have any clue why it does what it does. You can't really use that for anything. There's no way to improve on it to make it something practical. Also as thoreau's article pointed out it also doesn't look like they even tested it correctly.
Last edited by Painboy on 22 Nov 2016, 22:39, edited 1 time in total.

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Eric the .5b
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Eric the .5b » 22 Nov 2016, 21:40

Taktix® wrote:NASA claims to have a working EmDrive: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016 ... 43133518=1

That Musk sure is getting more palatable...
What does this have to do with Musk, aside from a clickbait link in the story? Nothing he's suggested involves the EmDrive.
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Fin Fang Foom » 22 Nov 2016, 23:54

Eric the .5b wrote:
Taktix® wrote:NASA claims to have a working EmDrive: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016 ... 43133518=1

That Musk sure is getting more palatable...
What does this have to do with Musk, aside from a clickbait link in the story? Nothing he's suggested involves the EmDrive.
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Taktix® » 23 Nov 2016, 00:13

Fin Fang Foom wrote:
Eric the .5b wrote:
Taktix® wrote:NASA claims to have a working EmDrive: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016 ... 43133518=1

That Musk sure is getting more palatable...
What does this have to do with Musk, aside from a clickbait link in the story? Nothing he's suggested involves the EmDrive.
Weird FutureTech that would actually Change All of Our Lives, if it works
He seems to be one of the most vocal proponents for space flight, I couldn't find a general space travel thread, and it wasn't a significant enough development to merit its own thread. Note the desperate attempt to tie it in. :D
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by JD » 23 Nov 2016, 11:10

Mo wrote:I disagree with this. Human history is littered with stuff that we used for great effect long before we understood why it worked. We were able to work with fire for millennia before we understood why it worked.
The quip I've heard is that thermodynamics owes more to the steam engine than the steam engine owes to thermodynamics. And I agree that there are weird effects out there that can be hard to understand - just the other day I was reading about the Crookes radiometer (those little science-demonstration gadgets that look like a lightbulb with a black-and-white windmill inside that turns if you shine a light on it), and it turns out that it has some weird properties, like it doesn't work if the bulb is at standard air pressure, and it also doesn't work if the air pressure in the bulb is too low either! And while we understand how it works now, it's not really something that anyone would have predicted.

Still, I find this reactionless drive really suspect. My money's still on "experimental error".
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 23 Nov 2016, 11:47

Mo wrote:I disagree with this. Human history is littered with stuff that we used for great effect long before we understood why it worked. We were able to work with fire for millennia before we understood why it worked.
Yeah, but we've made a few advances in working out the details and building what I'll just call the Standard Model since then. The strength of that model is so great thanks to withstanding countless possible falsifying experiments and natural phenomena coupled with its vast explanatory capability means we are entitled to be extremely skeptical of any phenomenon allegedly falsifying any part of or proving to be an exception to the model. The odds are overwhelmingly in favor of the counter-model claim being wrong.

By the way, strictly speaking, science doesn't explain why things are as they are except insofar as "why" is used as a synonym for "how." I'm not suggesting you were saying or implying anything contrary to that, but in ordinary discourse we commonly use "how" and "why" synonymously, leading many people to believe that science is teleological.

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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Warren » 23 Nov 2016, 11:51

Where did the money for this come from? Ten thousand researchers working full time chasing grant money, and this "It would be so cool if this thing we have no reason to believe can actually work works" thing gets green lighted? Put NASA on Trump's to-pillage list.
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Aresen » 23 Nov 2016, 12:02

Warren wrote:Where did the money for this come from? Ten thousand researchers working full time chasing grant money, and this "It would be so cool if this thing we have no reason to believe can actually work works" thing gets green lighted? Put NASA on Trump's to-pillage list.
Care to unpack that?
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Warren » 23 Nov 2016, 12:15

Aresen wrote:
Warren wrote:Where did the money for this come from? Ten thousand researchers working full time chasing grant money, and this "It would be so cool if this thing we have no reason to believe can actually work works" thing gets green lighted? Put NASA on Trump's to-pillage list.
Care to unpack that?
It isn't self explanatory? I'm upset that this experiment was funded when there are so many more worthy things not being funded. And by "more worthy" I mean "not stupid". Why would anyone attempt to make this thing in the first place? Actually it doesn't matter why. What matters is that that person needs to be out of a job. In fact we should just go ahead and defund all of NASA just to be sure. Since I assume the Trump administration will be focused on directing streams of public funding into personal coffers, I'd put NASA on his list of monies to pilfer. Not high on the list, but it's something the government should quit doing.
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by thoreau » 23 Nov 2016, 12:21

Shifting that money to the personal accounts of Trump Administration officials is not exactly diverting it away from things that cannot possibly deliver useful results but have somehow kept going despite the bafflement of every intelligent person out there.
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Mo » 23 Nov 2016, 12:24

Warren wrote:
Aresen wrote:
Warren wrote:Where did the money for this come from? Ten thousand researchers working full time chasing grant money, and this "It would be so cool if this thing we have no reason to believe can actually work works" thing gets green lighted? Put NASA on Trump's to-pillage list.
Care to unpack that?
It isn't self explanatory? I'm upset that this experiment was funded when there are so many more worthy things not being funded. And by "more worthy" I mean "not stupid". Why would anyone attempt to make this thing in the first place? Actually it doesn't matter why. What matters is that that person needs to be out of a job. In fact we should just go ahead and defund all of NASA just to be sure. Since I assume the Trump administration will be focused on directing streams of public funding into personal coffers, I'd put NASA on his list of monies to pilfer. Not high on the list, but it's something the government should quit doing.
It's one small lab team whose entire mission is to test out all sorts of fringe propulsion theories. You want to have teams like that in your organization. You find these groups in the private sector too, they're called IBM Research, Bell Labs, Skunk Works, etc.
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Aresen » 23 Nov 2016, 12:25

Warren wrote:
Aresen wrote:
Warren wrote:Where did the money for this come from? Ten thousand researchers working full time chasing grant money, and this "It would be so cool if this thing we have no reason to believe can actually work works" thing gets green lighted? Put NASA on Trump's to-pillage list.
Care to unpack that?
It isn't self explanatory? I'm upset that this experiment was funded when there are so many more worthy things not being funded. And by "more worthy" I mean "not stupid". Why would anyone attempt to make this thing in the first place? Actually it doesn't matter why. What matters is that that person needs to be out of a job. In fact we should just go ahead and defund all of NASA just to be sure. Since I assume the Trump administration will be focused on directing streams of public funding into personal coffers, I'd put NASA on his list of monies to pilfer. Not high on the list, but it's something the government should quit doing.
It wasn't self-explanatory. My initial impression was that you were implying that NASA conspired to repress a promising technology. ("If this thing works, we'll be out of a job.")
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by thoreau » 23 Nov 2016, 12:27

Mo wrote:
Warren wrote:
Aresen wrote:
Warren wrote:Where did the money for this come from? Ten thousand researchers working full time chasing grant money, and this "It would be so cool if this thing we have no reason to believe can actually work works" thing gets green lighted? Put NASA on Trump's to-pillage list.
Care to unpack that?
It isn't self explanatory? I'm upset that this experiment was funded when there are so many more worthy things not being funded. And by "more worthy" I mean "not stupid". Why would anyone attempt to make this thing in the first place? Actually it doesn't matter why. What matters is that that person needs to be out of a job. In fact we should just go ahead and defund all of NASA just to be sure. Since I assume the Trump administration will be focused on directing streams of public funding into personal coffers, I'd put NASA on his list of monies to pilfer. Not high on the list, but it's something the government should quit doing.
It's one small lab team whose entire mission is to test out all sorts of fringe propulsion theories. You want to have teams like that in your organization. You find these groups in the private sector too, they're called IBM Research, Bell Labs, Skunk Works, etc.
The real problem is that, AFAICT, they're being sloppy. I think they're a bit too enthusiastic about the "high reward" side of the equation and forgetting the obligations that come with the "high risk" side of things.
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Warren » 23 Nov 2016, 12:33

Mo wrote:It's one small lab team whose entire mission is to test out all sorts of fringe propulsion theories. You want to have teams like that in your organization. You find these groups in the private sector too, they're called IBM Research, Bell Labs, Skunk Works, etc.
Yeah no. It's all well and good to fund research that has a high probability of failure if the rewards for success are equally high. It's another thing altogether to fund research based on moonbeams and pixie dust. There is no theoretical basis by which this thing could possibly work. How was it even proposed?
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Mo » 23 Nov 2016, 12:52

There have been experiments by the Brits an Chinese governments/researchers with mystical results, so it's joining the club.
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Eric the .5b » 23 Nov 2016, 12:57

Funding a few dozen moonbeams for the price of one bomb doesn't bother me.

The breathless hyping of something that really should be a quiet internal thing with someone in charge constantly saying, "Stay calm, guys."? That annoys me.
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by thoreau » 23 Nov 2016, 13:02

Eric the .5b wrote:Funding a few dozen moonbeams for the price of one bomb doesn't bother me.

The breathless hyping of something that really should be a quiet internal thing with someone in charge constantly saying, "Stay calm, guys."? That annoys me.
This.

By all accounts they are doing this as poorly as possible. With a more careful research team they could have either debunked it in a fraction of the time (and followed it up with a peer reviewed article and "This is how science works" press release) or they could be a third of the way to a Nobel Prize. Instead they are laughingstocks.

Sent from a phone so their may be speling errors and autocorrect snafu's.
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Highway » 23 Nov 2016, 13:09

Warren wrote:
Mo wrote:It's one small lab team whose entire mission is to test out all sorts of fringe propulsion theories. You want to have teams like that in your organization. You find these groups in the private sector too, they're called IBM Research, Bell Labs, Skunk Works, etc.
Yeah no. It's all well and good to fund research that has a high probability of failure if the rewards for success are equally high. It's another thing altogether to fund research based on moonbeams and pixie dust. There is no theoretical basis by which this thing could possibly work. How was it even proposed?
Yeah! They should totally be funding those carburetors that get 100 MPG and cars that run on water that BIG OIL has suppressed for decades! Smokey Yunick showed me a prototype!
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Warren » 23 Nov 2016, 14:11

Highway wrote:
Warren wrote:
Mo wrote:It's one small lab team whose entire mission is to test out all sorts of fringe propulsion theories. You want to have teams like that in your organization. You find these groups in the private sector too, they're called IBM Research, Bell Labs, Skunk Works, etc.
Yeah no. It's all well and good to fund research that has a high probability of failure if the rewards for success are equally high. It's another thing altogether to fund research based on moonbeams and pixie dust. There is no theoretical basis by which this thing could possibly work. How was it even proposed?
Yeah! They should totally be funding those carburetors that get 100 MPG and cars that run on water that BIG OIL has suppressed for decades! Smokey Yunick showed me a prototype!
Touche!
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by JasonL » 26 Nov 2016, 16:51

Highway wrote:
Warren wrote:
Mo wrote:It's one small lab team whose entire mission is to test out all sorts of fringe propulsion theories. You want to have teams like that in your organization. You find these groups in the private sector too, they're called IBM Research, Bell Labs, Skunk Works, etc.
Yeah no. It's all well and good to fund research that has a high probability of failure if the rewards for success are equally high. It's another thing altogether to fund research based on moonbeams and pixie dust. There is no theoretical basis by which this thing could possibly work. How was it even proposed?
Yeah! They should totally be funding those carburetors that get 100 MPG and cars that run on water that BIG OIL has suppressed for decades! Smokey Yunick showed me a prototype!
Lulz

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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Sandy » 24 Jan 2017, 10:58

https://electrek.co/2017/01/23/tesla-mi ... ia-edison/
With a capacity of 20 MW/80 MWh, the project can hold enough energy to power more than 2,500 households for a day, but that’s not really what Southern California Edison is using it for on its grid covering 15 million people.

Instead, the system will charge using electricity from the grid during off-peak hours, when demand is low, and then deliver electricity during peak hours to help maintain the reliability and lower SCE’s dependence on natural gas peaker plants.
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Taktix® » 24 Jan 2017, 14:46

Sandy wrote:https://electrek.co/2017/01/23/tesla-mi ... ia-edison/
With a capacity of 20 MW/80 MWh, the project can hold enough energy to power more than 2,500 households for a day, but that’s not really what Southern California Edison is using it for on its grid covering 15 million people.

Instead, the system will charge using electricity from the grid during off-peak hours, when demand is low, and then deliver electricity during peak hours to help maintain the reliability and lower SCE’s dependence on natural gas peaker plants.
Managing peak load vs. off-peak load efficiently would be the sleeper pick for innovation of the year...
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Mo » 04 Apr 2017, 20:26

Bitch can't even deliver a intermediate sedan on time and he thinks he can tunnel under the whole fucking country?
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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