Does Elon's Musk stink?

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Warren
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Warren » 06 Feb 2018, 22:51

I really dig the Heavy Metal and Hitchhikers Guide shout outs. #geekandproud
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Sandy » 06 Feb 2018, 22:58

Aresen wrote: TBS, a million year from now, when kittens replace us as the dominant life form in the solar system, I wonder what they are going to think when they find a Tesla orbiting Mars.
Nitpick: it will be orbiting the Sun in an elliptical orbit that crosses the orbit of Mars. They didn’t include a Mars orbit insertion burn.
Hindu is the cricket of religions. You can observe it for years, you can have enthusiasts try to explain it to you, and it's still baffling. - Warren

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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Aresen » 06 Feb 2018, 23:09

Sandy wrote:
06 Feb 2018, 22:58
Aresen wrote: TBS, a million year from now, when kittens replace us as the dominant life form in the solar system, I wonder what they are going to think when they find a Tesla orbiting Mars.
Nitpick: it will be orbiting the Sun in an elliptical orbit that crosses the orbit of Mars. They didn’t include a Mars orbit insertion burn.
I know, but it sounded better that way. And who knows what a million years of gravitational interactions will do? Even the best models of the solar system have large error bars that far in the future.
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Jasper » 07 Feb 2018, 13:55

Eric the .5b wrote:
06 Feb 2018, 19:01
Kolohe wrote:
06 Feb 2018, 18:52
It seems plausible to me that Musk's way could be cheaper, because of less you have overhaul between launches i.e. the shuttle SRBs landing in seawater after every use.
Certainly; I assume they have decent reasons for doing it.

I don't assume they're utterly right, but finding out is the point of trying new approaches. I just never expected this one.
Returning them on just retro-firing the engines and attitude thrusters is the coolness factor. Designing them with drag chutes to slow them down and keep the nose pointed up would've been more logical, at least to me.
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Warren » 07 Feb 2018, 14:11

Jasper wrote:
07 Feb 2018, 13:55
Returning them on just retro-firing the engines and attitude thrusters is the coolness factor. Designing them with drag chutes to slow them down and keep the nose pointed up would've been more logical, at least to me.
This is what I'm saying.
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Painboy » 07 Feb 2018, 14:28

Jasper wrote:
07 Feb 2018, 13:55
Eric the .5b wrote:
06 Feb 2018, 19:01
Kolohe wrote:
06 Feb 2018, 18:52
It seems plausible to me that Musk's way could be cheaper, because of less you have overhaul between launches i.e. the shuttle SRBs landing in seawater after every use.
Certainly; I assume they have decent reasons for doing it.

I don't assume they're utterly right, but finding out is the point of trying new approaches. I just never expected this one.
Returning them on just retro-firing the engines and attitude thrusters is the coolness factor. Designing them with drag chutes to slow them down and keep the nose pointed up would've been more logical, at least to me.
Just speculating a drag chute might introduce too much instability when landing if they wanted to use retro firing. Without the movement of a chute the rockets only have to compensate for one thing bouncing around. Also chutes may have had reliability or deployment issues in earlier tests.

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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Warren » 07 Feb 2018, 14:34

Painboy wrote:
07 Feb 2018, 14:28
Jasper wrote:
07 Feb 2018, 13:55
Eric the .5b wrote:
06 Feb 2018, 19:01
Kolohe wrote:
06 Feb 2018, 18:52
It seems plausible to me that Musk's way could be cheaper, because of less you have overhaul between launches i.e. the shuttle SRBs landing in seawater after every use.
Certainly; I assume they have decent reasons for doing it.

I don't assume they're utterly right, but finding out is the point of trying new approaches. I just never expected this one.
Returning them on just retro-firing the engines and attitude thrusters is the coolness factor. Designing them with drag chutes to slow them down and keep the nose pointed up would've been more logical, at least to me.
Just speculating a drag chute might introduce too much instability when landing if they wanted to use retro firing. Without the movement of a chute the rockets only have to compensate for one thing bouncing around. Also chutes may have had reliability or deployment issues in earlier tests.
Modern chutes, which are more wings than drag chutes, should provide more reliability than and better control than retros. I would think.
The value of peer review lies substantially in the nature of one's peers. - that Ridgely guy

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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Jasper » 07 Feb 2018, 16:20

Painboy wrote:
07 Feb 2018, 14:28
Jasper wrote:
07 Feb 2018, 13:55
Eric the .5b wrote:
06 Feb 2018, 19:01
Kolohe wrote:
06 Feb 2018, 18:52
It seems plausible to me that Musk's way could be cheaper, because of less you have overhaul between launches i.e. the shuttle SRBs landing in seawater after every use.
Certainly; I assume they have decent reasons for doing it.

I don't assume they're utterly right, but finding out is the point of trying new approaches. I just never expected this one.
Returning them on just retro-firing the engines and attitude thrusters is the coolness factor. Designing them with drag chutes to slow them down and keep the nose pointed up would've been more logical, at least to me.
Just speculating a drag chute might introduce too much instability when landing if they wanted to use retro firing. Without the movement of a chute the rockets only have to compensate for one thing bouncing around. Also chutes may have had reliability or deployment issues in earlier tests.
Could be, could be... but for my rocket designs in Kerbal Space Program.... :geek: :mrgreen:
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Kolohe » 07 Feb 2018, 17:11

The rockets did have fins that deployed when they were starting their return trip, if I'm interpreting what I saw correctly.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Highway » 07 Feb 2018, 17:15

If we're talking design compromises, if you put a drag chute on the top to keep it pointed upright, now you've got an additional tension force on the stack that you didn't have if you just use retro-firing. So now you'd have to design it to also not pull apart when you're holding it from the top, not just not compress into the bottom when supported from the bottom. Same thing if you did a chute on the bottom, now it wants to pull apart from the bottom, and you've got to flip it back over after you get rid of the chute. And I'd concur on the highly variable forces during the landing operation with the chute. Maybe you detach it before starting the burns? But how much did that buy you in that case? And how many hundreds of pounds of chute do you want to put in?

Honestly, I'd imagine that these guys thought of all this stuff. They *are* rocket scientists (and engineers), after all. I'd think it highly unlikely that they just skipped over all these other known possible methods of returning and go right to possibly the most tenuous just because it's awesome. Now, there was probably a point where they were weighing different options, and the coolness factor of landing it tail first with engines burning was sitting there like an attractive nuisance, pulling them to this harder option, but the more I think about it, the less I figure that it's a "We'll just do it the hardest way because it's coolest" and more of a "Yeah, it's a little harder to do the first time, but it also has way more upside."
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Mo » 07 Feb 2018, 19:53

Shut up Highway. I'm a person on the internet, I have access to Google and Wikipedia.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Kolohe » 07 Feb 2018, 22:12

Though Highway's job is about designing things to make cars go places, so he has specific expertise here.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Sandy » 08 Feb 2018, 12:55

Mo wrote:
07 Feb 2018, 19:53
Shut up Highway. I'm a person on the internet, I have access to Google and Wikipedia.
More importantly, YouTube videos proving that it's all photoshop and the earth is still flat. Nice try, Illuminati.
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Jasper » 08 Feb 2018, 12:58

Mo wrote:
07 Feb 2018, 19:53
Shut up Highway. I'm a person on the internet, I have access to Google and Wikipedia.
Fuckin' A-right, yo!
"i'd like to move toward not combusting except on special occasions like arbor day." - dhex


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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Mo » 08 Feb 2018, 13:36

Best snarky comment re: Musk

"So he can do crazy rocket stuff, but he can profitably mass produce a car?"
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Aresen » 08 Feb 2018, 13:39

Mo wrote:
08 Feb 2018, 13:36
Best snarky comment re: Musk

"So he can do crazy rocket stuff, but he can profitably mass produce a car?"
Launching a Tesla into space has to be the most expensive inventory reduction in history.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

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Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Highway » 08 Feb 2018, 13:49

Aresen wrote:
08 Feb 2018, 13:39
Mo wrote:
08 Feb 2018, 13:36
Best snarky comment re: Musk

"So he can do crazy rocket stuff, but he can profitably mass produce a car?"
Launching a Tesla into space has to be the most expensive inventory reduction in history.
Hey, it was probably cheaper than replacing the battery...
"Sharks do not go around challenging people to games of chance like dojo breakers."

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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Mo » 02 May 2018, 22:25

The Tesla earnings call today is a summary of why traditional manufacturers will win the EV game.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by thoreau » 02 May 2018, 22:26

But he's from Silicon Valley and can say words like "disrupt." Does that count for nothing? NOTHING?

Next you'll try to tell me that Theranos isn't....oh.
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Aresen » 02 May 2018, 23:58

Mo wrote:
02 May 2018, 22:25
The Tesla earnings call today is a summary of why traditional manufacturers will win the EV game.
I'll see your Tesla and raise you a hyperloop.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Jasper » 04 May 2018, 11:11

I don't follow Musk news at all, really, and I've no idea how he comes across in presentation in both social media or business, or even if his business ventures thus far are profitable. But I do gotta admire a guy who basically said "fuck you, I'll do it my way" to all the people who told him his ideas would never work. Same goes for Branson and Bezos to some extent.
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Aresen » 04 May 2018, 11:24

Jasper wrote:
04 May 2018, 11:11
I don't follow Musk news at all, really, and I've no idea how he comes across in presentation in both social media or business, or even if his business ventures thus far are profitable. But I do gotta admire a guy who basically said "fuck you, I'll do it my way" to all the people who told him his ideas would never work. Same goes for Branson and Bezos to some extent.
Gutsy ideas are one thing, but the few times I've listened to Musk, he comes across like a huckster selling magic pills that will make your car run on water.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by nicole » 09 May 2018, 15:46

"Fucking qualia." -Hugh Akston

"This is why I carry a shoehorn.” -jadagul

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Aresen
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Re: Does Elon's Musk stink?

Post by Aresen » 09 May 2018, 15:55

Are they going to self-assemble into a house?
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

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