OFFS: The Forsakening

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Aresen
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by Aresen » 12 Jul 2019, 13:08

lunchstealer wrote:
12 Jul 2019, 13:06
Aresen wrote:
12 Jul 2019, 10:25
Eric the .5b wrote:
12 Jul 2019, 01:07
I'm just too tired of lefties calling everything they dislike or oppose "fascist" to actually get far into the article. The weak being expected to serve the strong—and for them to be told to act happy about it, and for the society to justify this hierarchy as good and natural—was the norm of human history for thousands of years before dipshits got together in Italy and Germany. It's monarchist propaganda.
What is frustrating with people like the author is their inability to comprehend that democratic majoritarianism is equally unjust.

This is one of the things that most infuriates me with Brexiteers, whose favorite go-to argument is that the majority of the UK voted in favor - once. No matter how much of a clusterfuck it is turning out to be, the Brexiteers keep going back to the democratic mandate.
Not least because most fascist regimes are at least initially democratically installed by a majority of voters - often a large majority.

Also NO REALLY FASCISM DOESN'T HAVE KINGS THAT'S MONARCHY/FEUDALISM.
So...Is Venezuela Communist or Fascist?
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lunchstealer
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by lunchstealer » 12 Jul 2019, 13:12

Communist/socialist. Fascism also has a nationalist/militarist, usually ethnonationalist flavor, and I don't recall much of that out of Chavez or Maduro. I mean, they're militarist, but in a way that's very socialist-totalitarian rather than the other thing. More Tito less Mussolini.
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by Aresen » 12 Jul 2019, 13:37

lunchstealer wrote:
12 Jul 2019, 13:12
Communist/socialist. Fascism also has a nationalist/militarist, usually ethnonationalist flavor, and I don't recall much of that out of Chavez or Maduro. I mean, they're militarist, but in a way that's very socialist-totalitarian rather than the other thing. More Tito less Mussolini.
Chavez was 'internationalist' only as long as the rest of Latin America supported him. As soon as they started questioning him, they became 'lackeys of the foreign devil.'
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by Shem » 12 Jul 2019, 13:48

Aresen wrote:
12 Jul 2019, 13:08
lunchstealer wrote:
12 Jul 2019, 13:06
Aresen wrote:
12 Jul 2019, 10:25
Eric the .5b wrote:
12 Jul 2019, 01:07
I'm just too tired of lefties calling everything they dislike or oppose "fascist" to actually get far into the article. The weak being expected to serve the strong—and for them to be told to act happy about it, and for the society to justify this hierarchy as good and natural—was the norm of human history for thousands of years before dipshits got together in Italy and Germany. It's monarchist propaganda.
What is frustrating with people like the author is their inability to comprehend that democratic majoritarianism is equally unjust.

This is one of the things that most infuriates me with Brexiteers, whose favorite go-to argument is that the majority of the UK voted in favor - once. No matter how much of a clusterfuck it is turning out to be, the Brexiteers keep going back to the democratic mandate.
Not least because most fascist regimes are at least initially democratically installed by a majority of voters - often a large majority.

Also NO REALLY FASCISM DOESN'T HAVE KINGS THAT'S MONARCHY/FEUDALISM.
So...Is Venezuela Communist or Fascist?
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 12 Jul 2019, 13:50

There are, to be sure, analytical differences between fascist totalitarianism and communist totalitarianism worthy of endless debates in academia, but it's still more wrong than right to see their differences and overlook their commonalities. But "facist" is just a boo-word on the left the same way "socialist" is on the right. Yeah, neither fascists nor communists have royalty, per se, though that's a distinction without a difference in North Korea and a few other places I could probably come up with.

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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by lunchstealer » 12 Jul 2019, 14:11

Aresen wrote:
12 Jul 2019, 13:37
lunchstealer wrote:
12 Jul 2019, 13:12
Communist/socialist. Fascism also has a nationalist/militarist, usually ethnonationalist flavor, and I don't recall much of that out of Chavez or Maduro. I mean, they're militarist, but in a way that's very socialist-totalitarian rather than the other thing. More Tito less Mussolini.
Chavez was 'internationalist' only as long as the rest of Latin America supported him. As soon as they started questioning him, they became 'lackeys of the foreign devil.'
Well sure but it was always in a counterrevolutionary imperialist running dogs sort of way that's not inconsistent with left-totalitarianism. And in his defense the US did actually back a coup against him. Which is the full extent of the defense I will give him, that that one talking point that the US tried to undermine his rule was not wholly inaccurate. Everything else about him is awful. Well I will also defend him in saying that he wasn't as much of an unmitigated disaster as Maduro, except that he set the stage for Maduro by letting him have a position of power in the government so he could take over after Chavez died.
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by Aresen » 12 Jul 2019, 14:20

I have always felt that Maduro gets more of the blame for the state of Venezuela's economy than he deserves. Most of the nationalizations and undermining of markets took place under Chavez, who had the good fortune to die before everything actually fell apart.

TBS, I think Chavez would have been worse than Maduro in the ensuing years due to Chavez' monumental ego and his charisma. Chavez would have used more than street thugs on the protesters.
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by Mo » 12 Jul 2019, 14:32

Chavez set up the kindling, Maduro was around when oil prices drop and sparked the fire.
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by Shem » 12 Jul 2019, 14:43

Aresen wrote:
12 Jul 2019, 14:20
I have always felt that Maduro gets more of the blame for the state of Venezuela's economy than he deserves. Most of the nationalizations and undermining of markets took place under Chavez, who had the good fortune to die before everything actually fell apart.

TBS, I think Chavez would have been worse than Maduro in the ensuing years due to Chavez' monumental ego and his charisma. Chavez would have used more than street thugs on the protesters.
That was always how it was going to be, though.
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by Eric the .5b » 12 Jul 2019, 15:03

Aresen wrote:
12 Jul 2019, 10:25
Eric the .5b wrote:
12 Jul 2019, 01:07
I'm just too tired of lefties calling everything they dislike or oppose "fascist" to actually get far into the article. The weak being expected to serve the strong—and for them to be told to act happy about it, and for the society to justify this hierarchy as good and natural—was the norm of human history for thousands of years before dipshits got together in Italy and Germany. It's monarchist propaganda.
What is frustrating with people like the author is their inability to comprehend that democratic majoritarianism is equally unjust.

This is one of the things that most infuriates me with Brexiteers, whose favorite go-to argument is that the majority of the UK voted in favor - once. No matter how much of a clusterfuck it is turning out to be, the Brexiteers keep going back to the democratic mandate.
This, I don't buy. There wouldn't be a complaint to make about the whole "vote once and disregard that the public now thinks it's a bad idea" business if democracy were no different from monarchy.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by Eric the .5b » 12 Jul 2019, 15:07

Pham Nuwen wrote:
12 Jul 2019, 12:16
I think it's more, "Life is pretty good and you people won't read anything unless it's shocking, stupid, or both. So I will make up pretend outrage that confuses people and want to figure out what I am whining about despite not believing a single word I wrote."
No, it's more, "Things are kinda dangerously shitty right now, so save the word 'fascist' for shit that's actually increasing the shittiness."
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
Cet animal est très méchant / Quand on l'attaque il se défend.

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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by lunchstealer » 12 Jul 2019, 15:34

Aresen wrote:
12 Jul 2019, 10:25
Eric the .5b wrote:
12 Jul 2019, 01:07
I'm just too tired of lefties calling everything they dislike or oppose "fascist" to actually get far into the article. The weak being expected to serve the strong—and for them to be told to act happy about it, and for the society to justify this hierarchy as good and natural—was the norm of human history for thousands of years before dipshits got together in Italy and Germany. It's monarchist propaganda.
What is frustrating with people like the author is their inability to comprehend that democratic majoritarianism is equally unjust.

This is one of the things that most infuriates me with Brexiteers, whose favorite go-to argument is that the majority of the UK voted in favor - once. No matter how much of a clusterfuck it is turning out to be, the Brexiteers keep going back to the democratic mandate.
I am generally of the opinion that all plebiscites that have huge implications for the populace like Brexit or constitutional amendments or the like should be decided by a supermajority, not a bare majority.
"The constitution is more of a BDSM agreement with a safe word." - Sandy

"Neoliberalism. Austerity. Booga booga!!!!" - JasonL

"We can't confirm rumors that Lynndie England is in the running to be Gina Haspel's personal aide." - DAR

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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by JD » 09 Aug 2019, 11:20

The EPA has re-authorized the use of cyanide bombs for animal control.

This despite the fact that they are a proven danger to people, pets, and livestock, and there is a history of them being used improperly. Back in 2017, a boy was seriously injured and his dog killed by a cyanide bomb that was planted behind the family property; the feds had not labeled the device or notified anyone of its presence, not the family, not local authorities, not anybody. The state of Idaho fined the Division of Wildlife Services a whopping $6000, and instead of admitting any fault the feds basically just shrugged and said, "Sorry, sucks to be you."
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by Aresen » 09 Aug 2019, 13:46

Man who assaulted a boy during national anthem is convinced Trump ordered it, lawyer says
MISSOULA, Mont. – A Montana man charged with assaulting a 13-year-old boy who refused to remove his hat during the national anthem believed he was doing what President Donald Trump wanted him to do, his attorney said.

Attorney Lance Jasper told the Missoulian he will seek a mental health evaluation for Curt Brockway, a U.S. Army veteran who became caught up in the heightened animosity and rhetoric gripping the nation, and convinced himself that he was following the president’s orders.

“His commander in chief is telling people that if they kneel, they should be fired, or if they burn a flag, they should be punished,” Jasper said.

Jasper added that Brockway “certainly didn’t understand it was a crime.”
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by Mo » 09 Aug 2019, 15:27

It’s just his lawyer trying to get attention.
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by Aresen » 09 Aug 2019, 16:24

Mo wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 15:27
It’s just his lawyer trying to get attention.
I get that. I was more OFFSing about the basic story of the guy nearly murdering a kid because the kid wouldn't take his hat off for the anthem. (Apparently, he told the kid to take it off and, unsurprisingly for a 13-year-old, the kid told him to f**k off.)
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by lunchstealer » 09 Aug 2019, 18:39

I read somewhere that the offender had suffered a TBI in the military and was medically discharged in 2000 because of it. Which sucks because it can really destroy emotional regulation. Not that that means he's non-culpable, because just because it's harder to keep control doesn't mean it's impossible.
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by thoreau » 09 Aug 2019, 18:47

So now he gives the kid TBI. I guess this stuff is contagious.
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by Pham Nuwen » 09 Aug 2019, 21:39

Wait. So the lawyer is going for the Thomas Becket defense? Bold.
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by Wixenstyx » 09 Aug 2019, 23:30

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/08/us/walma ... index.html

This is such a bizarre story. He says he didn't go in intending to shoot anyone, but went in dressed like he was intending to shoot someone and carrying a rifle with which he COULD have shot someone, on the day after a mass shooting in a Wal-mart elsewhere.
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by Pham Nuwen » 09 Aug 2019, 23:48

I mean in a lot of states that's legal. Til he shoots someone. I'm really uncomfortable these days in regards to open carry. Hell even the old west had restrictive open carry laws once a certain amount of, dare I say, civilization was introduced.
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by Warren » 10 Aug 2019, 02:04

I'm thinking it's a case of attempted suicide by cop. And I'm astonished it didn't succeed.
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by Eric the .5b » 10 Aug 2019, 03:15

Except, as Blues keep pointing out in sometimes-cringeworthy ways, white shooters tend to get taken alive, lately.
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by Jake » 10 Aug 2019, 05:58

I'm guessing he was trying to do a weird flex on his Second Amendment rights. There are people who'll walk into a city hall, for example, and say horrible things to the staff, and/or get all up in their faces recording video because they want to "test" the local government and see if they can get their rights violated so they can "expose" the wrongdoing. (They call themselves "First Amendment Auditors" or something like that.)

Considering he was filming himself, I'm thinking that maybe this yahoo was trying to pull a page from that playbook.
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by Mo » 10 Aug 2019, 10:07

I mentioned this in the guns thread, but there are a bunch of hardcore 2A cons saying, “See a good guy with a gun stopped a bad guy with a gun.” Despite there being no indication that he was a bad guy or that he was breaking any laws. They also ignore that the guy was within his rights because of the super extreme open carry laws being pushed by the same peeps.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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