There must be a pony in here somewhere.

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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Mo » 20 Nov 2019, 14:35

Make it easier for foreign doctors and make med school free instead of residencies via Medicare. That should do quite a bit to increase supply.
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by JasonL » 20 Nov 2019, 14:57

Yeah I agree with the foreign doctors part. One of my first imperial decrees would be to import a million doctors.

Not sure about making med school free. I have the same skepticism about that I do with making higher ed free.

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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Aresen » 20 Nov 2019, 15:02

JasonL wrote:
20 Nov 2019, 14:57
Yeah I agree with the foreign doctors part. One of my first imperial decrees would be to import a million doctors.

Not sure about making med school free. I have the same skepticism about that I do with making higher ed free.
Which would immediately lead to complaints about how you were 'Stealing the educated class (especially 'needed health professionals') from other countries.'

In Canada, the chattering classes refer to the flight of professionals to the US as the 'Brain Drain,' with the implication that 'Canada' somehow 'owns' these people.
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by thoreau » 20 Nov 2019, 15:06

JasonL wrote:
20 Nov 2019, 14:57
Not sure about making med school free. I have the same skepticism about that I do with making higher ed free.
Given how much of their money comes from clinical revenue and research grants, tuition is probably barely a blip. I wouldn't make it free, but you could mandate some price cuts in med school tuition and the schools would keep right on going. I don't normally endorse price controls, but if you're going to impose them anywhere, impose them on the thing that is mostly reliant on other sources of revenue.
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by JasonL » 20 Nov 2019, 15:10

Less worried about the institutions and more worried about the impact to quality along with the lack of skin in the game for applicants. I know I know i'm skin in the game bot, but I think I have good reasons for that.

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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by thoreau » 20 Nov 2019, 17:03

With students and tuition, I agree on skin in the game more than you think. I'm not convinced that the dollar amounts need to be as huge as institutions want them to be, but students need to see an immediate cost to spending this time, not just an opportunity cost.

I think one reason why so many of my students are reluctant to change major is that failing a class and staying an extra year is not that costly. At more costly schools, people who bomb a calculus midterm GTFO of physics and change majors ASAP. Here, eh, an extra year doesn't cost much.

Meanwhile, the state, which is bearing the cost of that extra year, views everything through a very crude lens, and figures that changing majors and starting over will delay them (not understanding that not changing majors could cost even more in the long run) so they push us to get people through ASAP and discourage changing majors.

A rebalancing of costs and incentives would actually make students more eager to change majors, and make us less eager to get them through this major ASAP. Staying an extra semester to change majors would cost everyone less than staying 2 extra years after repeatedly failing bottleneck classes.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by JasonL » 20 Nov 2019, 18:31

We ... almost completely agree?

*backs slowly away from thread*

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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Pham Nuwen » 20 Nov 2019, 21:55

Whoa! #keanu
Goddamn libertarian message board. Hugh Akston

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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Masked Grylliader » 03 Dec 2019, 11:15

@tcburkejr: "If you don’t think the VA is actively underfunded in order to show that single payer healthcare wouldn’t work in this country I have a bridge to sell you"

I ... don't think that?


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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Hugh Akston » 03 Dec 2019, 11:17

Yeah when I think VA I don't think actively underfunded, I think criminally mismanaged.
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by JD » 03 Dec 2019, 11:43

Masked Grylliader wrote:
03 Dec 2019, 11:15
@tcburkejr: "If you don’t think the VA is actively underfunded in order to show that single payer healthcare wouldn’t work in this country I have a bridge to sell you"

I ... don't think that?


-Ellie
It's like the Snidely Whiplash view of politics: if something is bad, it must be because someone is intentionally making it bad for their own nefarious purposes. I do wonder how that person squares "actively underfunded" with this, though: Trump signs the largest VA budget ever
President Donald Trump signed the Department of Veterans Affairs fiscal 2019 budget into law on Friday, giving the department a funding boost of more than 6 percent and pushing the agency’s total spending over $200 billion for the first time.
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Warren » 03 Dec 2019, 11:55

Hugh Akston wrote:
03 Dec 2019, 11:17
Yeah when I think VA I don't think actively underfunded, I think criminally mismanaged.
I've had good experience with the VA. In some respects I'm getting better care from them now that I got from Anthem BCBS. And they recently changed the rules so I don't have to drive half way across the state to see a specialist. I've heard bad things about the VA in St. Louis. But out here in the sticks it's really outstanding. One thing, if you are sick and need help today they got nothing.
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Eric the .5b » 03 Dec 2019, 22:19

JD wrote:
03 Dec 2019, 11:43
Masked Grylliader wrote:
03 Dec 2019, 11:15
@tcburkejr: "If you don’t think the VA is actively underfunded in order to show that single payer healthcare wouldn’t work in this country I have a bridge to sell you"

I ... don't think that?


-Ellie
It's like the Snidely Whiplash view of politics: if something is bad, it must be because someone is intentionally making it bad for their own nefarious purposes. I do wonder how that person squares "actively underfunded" with this, though: Trump signs the largest VA budget ever
I just want to know how they square it with the ones who go on about how every complaint about the VA is right-wing propaganda, it's the greatest thing since sliced bread, and it thus shows why we need single payer.

Or really, I'd like the two camps to slug it out, preferably literally...
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by JD » 04 Dec 2019, 19:33

(moving this stuff to here)
Jennifer wrote:
04 Dec 2019, 16:32
JasonL wrote:
04 Dec 2019, 16:28
The long trend, completely toxic in my view, is to try to sweep more and more things under insurance so people don't have to have any savings.
To be fair, though: given the ridiculous (and often arbitrary) sums of money people get charged for healthcare, "savings" is useless. Remember the standard blood-cholesterol test whose price ranged from 10 dollars to ten thousand dollars for the same test? (And I guarantee, the guy who got billed for ten grand would NOT have agreed to the test had the price been quoted in advance). For that matter, remember when Matt Welch complained how his doctor quoted him a price of $800 for a certain procedure, then when he actually got the bill the charge was over 80 thousand? Expecting "savings" to cover such sums (especially when people have no way of even knowing in advance how much they'll be charged) is not going to solve the problem; that's merely blaming the victims of the problem.
I think there's truth in both of these. "Insurance" becomes kind of meaningless when it's used to pay not for things that might bankrupt you and you can't reasonably save for, but for every single routine expense. At the same time, it's become necessary precisely because it is used for everything - that's the new normal. There was no longer any healthy, reasonable pricing mechanism, because the end-consumer of the healthcare is almost never the one directly paying for it. The ACA attempted to remedy that by requiring hospitals to publish price lists, but the prices on a hospital's website may not match those paid by their insurance provider, or Medicare.
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Mo » 08 Dec 2019, 15:00

The fact that the Republican head of Medicare didn’t have private insurance on $40k worth of jewelry and then tried to illegally get the government to cover it is almost perfect.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by thoreau » 08 Dec 2019, 18:10

A report from the socialist hellhole that is Finland.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/07/opin ... alism.html

Finland, Finland, Finland,
The country where I want to be,
Boating, shrimping, or camping,
Or just watching TV.
Finland, Finland, Finland,
Finland has it all.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by JasonL » 08 Dec 2019, 18:47

Let’s have that discussion. The real comparison. Corporate tax rate is about 20% in Finland. VAT is 24%\14% on essentials. Progressive income top rate is 32% paid by lots of people. Median income total tax burden is about 45%. Try to sell it that way with all the goodies. See what happens.

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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Warren » 08 Dec 2019, 18:52

JasonL wrote:
08 Dec 2019, 18:47
Let’s have that discussion. The real comparison. Corporate tax rate is about 20% in Finland. VAT is 24%\14% on essentials. Progressive income top rate is 32% paid by lots of people. Median income total tax burden is about 45%. Try to sell it that way with all the goodies. See what happens.
I'd buy it.
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Mo » 08 Dec 2019, 19:00

I will say that one thing that I’ve noticed as the big difference between this side of the pond and the other is that government in general is much more effective. Part of it is the fact that you don’t have a bunch of overlapping, independent layers with their own graft and inefficiency. You have, for the most part, just one source of graft and inefficiency. A good example of this is public works. Public works, on a per mile basis are much cheaper here than in the equivalent US cities. Partly because everything goes to the national government. You don’t have the equivalent of NYC, NYS, fed gov, Port Authority, etc. all with their own independent constituencies and mouths to feed. There are benefits to the decentralized, local system we have in the US, but efficiency ain’t it.
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Warren » 08 Dec 2019, 19:16

Mo wrote:
08 Dec 2019, 19:00
I will say that one thing that I’ve noticed as the big difference between this side of the pond and the other is that government in general is much more effective. Part of it is the fact that you don’t have a bunch of overlapping, independent layers with their own graft and inefficiency. You have, for the most part, just one source of graft and inefficiency. A good example of this is public works. Public works, on a per mile basis are much cheaper here than in the equivalent US cities. Partly because everything goes to the national government. You don’t have the equivalent of NYC, NYS, fed gov, Port Authority, etc. all with their own independent constituencies and mouths to feed. There are benefits to the decentralized, local system we have in the US, but efficiency ain’t it.
Well, the central government of old England is governing a population about the same size as New England.
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Mo » 09 Dec 2019, 02:53

Population of New England is 14 M for the U.K. it’s 67 M.
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by lunchstealer » 09 Dec 2019, 08:37

Mo wrote:
09 Dec 2019, 02:53
Population of New England is 14 M for the U.K. it’s 67 M.
Did you count the meese? Warren is counting the meese. Those mooses or fuckin buffalos or some shit* are worth about 2500 liverpudlians apiece.

*See the Heroes/Zeroes thread.
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by JD » 09 Dec 2019, 09:21

thoreau wrote:
08 Dec 2019, 18:10
A report from the socialist hellhole that is Finland.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/07/opin ... alism.html
You know, both socialism and its opponents have done great violence to language. The socialists point to something they like and call it "socialism", and the anti-socialists point to something they don't like and call it "socialism", both without any regard to how socialist it actually is.
I sort of feel like a sucker about aspiring to be intellectually rigorous when I could just go on twitter and say capitalism causes space herpes and no one will challenge me on it. - Hugh Akston

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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by thoreau » 09 Dec 2019, 10:07

JD wrote:
thoreau wrote:
08 Dec 2019, 18:10
A report from the socialist hellhole that is Finland.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/07/opin ... alism.html
You know, both socialism and its opponents have done great violence to language. The socialists point to something they like and call it "socialism", and the anti-socialists point to something they don't like and call it "socialism", both without any regard to how socialist it actually is.
In other words...
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Eric the .5b » 10 Dec 2019, 01:10

That macro is in such tediously bad faith. I've encountered lots of people—Georgists, left-anarchists, people who voted for Nader and then Ron Paul, and people thought Trump was going to be a good president. I've never encountered anyone who's made the socialism/welfare state distinct and then fallen back on objecting to "socialism", much less enough people to establish this pattern of argument.

Pointing out that maybe you can't just scale up the systems of a country with a population roughly equal to Chicago and Houston combined to a country of almost 330 million, sure. Pointing out that we don't have anything like a national sovereign wealth fund, sure. "Socialism", no.
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