There must be a pony in here somewhere.

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thoreau
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by thoreau » 13 Dec 2018, 23:14

Politicians might not care about the cost to us, but some of the people that they have to keep happy care very much about the bond markets. We cannot have a bunch of aircraft carriers AND single-pay AND tax rates that get them re-elected AND anything approaching economic stability. We can have two of those (maybe), but not all four. We can have three of them for a very short time.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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Aresen
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Aresen » 13 Dec 2018, 23:16

thoreau wrote:
13 Dec 2018, 23:14
Politicians might not care about the cost to us, but some of the people that they have to keep happy care very much about the bond markets. We cannot have a bunch of aircraft carriers AND single-pay AND tax rates that get them re-elected AND anything approaching economic stability. We can have two of those (maybe), but not all four. We can have three of them for a very short time.
Aww, come on, thoreau! The Pentagon is always boasting about how effective their 'surgical strikes' are. :P
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Pham Nuwen
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Pham Nuwen » 13 Dec 2018, 23:18

Oh thoreau ...
Goddamn libertarian message board. Hugh Akston

leave me to my mescaline smoothie in peace, please. dhex

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Hugh Akston
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Hugh Akston » 13 Dec 2018, 23:18

JasonL wrote:
13 Dec 2018, 16:46
Time to go cross eyed staring at our future so I can choose the least destructive among them.
You can comfort yourself with the knowledge that you don't actually get a say.
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Mo » 13 Dec 2018, 23:26

Medicare reimbursements are about 80% of private insurance. Interestingly, I hung out with a friend of mine who said that O-care saved hospitals a ton of money because costs associated with EMTALA went away. So without looking at reduced costs (say administrative costs) it’s difficult to say what the net financial effect of a buy in Medicare would have on overall provider income.
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Pham Nuwen
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Pham Nuwen » 13 Dec 2018, 23:46

Mo wrote:
13 Dec 2018, 23:26
Medicare reimbursements are about 80% of private insurance. Interestingly, I hung out with a friend of mine who said that O-care saved hospitals a ton of money because costs associated with EMTALA went away. So without looking at reduced costs (say administrative costs) it’s difficult to say what the net financial effect of a buy in Medicare would have on overall provider income.
Hmmmm. I've heard something similar for the more rural health network due to payment transfers. Otherwise, from what i heard, the entire rural health network would have basically collapsed by now. I only heard this because no one could figure out what the Republicans were getting out of O-care recall. It literally saved their citizens, communities, and states some really hard times.
Goddamn libertarian message board. Hugh Akston

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JasonL
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There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by JasonL » 13 Dec 2018, 23:51

My read of those bills is they are looking to gash reimbursement via regulation. You wouldn’t know until the funding were formed up but of course that’s the hardest part.

I agree the buy in’s are my first choice at first pass.

Yes I know I don’t get a say but I feel like I should know what I prefer.

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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by lunchstealer » 14 Dec 2018, 04:29

Pham Nuwen wrote:
13 Dec 2018, 23:46
Mo wrote:
13 Dec 2018, 23:26
Medicare reimbursements are about 80% of private insurance. Interestingly, I hung out with a friend of mine who said that O-care saved hospitals a ton of money because costs associated with EMTALA went away. So without looking at reduced costs (say administrative costs) it’s difficult to say what the net financial effect of a buy in Medicare would have on overall provider income.
Hmmmm. I've heard something similar for the more rural health network due to payment transfers. Otherwise, from what i heard, the entire rural health network would have basically collapsed by now. I only heard this because no one could figure out what the Republicans were getting out of O-care recall. It literally saved their citizens, communities, and states some really hard times.
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by JD » 14 Dec 2018, 13:53

Pham Nuwen wrote:
13 Dec 2018, 23:11
Also. I really don't think things like cost to taxpayers is a concern. Call it a hunch.
Yeah, because to most people, single-payer healthcare is "free".

Frankly I suspect that single-payer healthcare is inevitable at some point, because the Democrats are eventually going to have the seats to ram it through, and once it's in place we'll never dislodge it, because we'll get a ton of horror stories about how if we overturn it, Grandma will be charged $50,000 for her meds and children will die on the doorsteps of hospitals because of the evil gods of HEALTHCARE FOR PROFIT!!! We're not going to go all Soviet on the healthcare system, so I suspect that what will happen is that some compromise will be made where most people still get their insurance through work but it's Medicare for everybody who doesn't, and a whole bunch of rules about what providers can charge. Best case scenario, low-income Americans get better healthcare, and taxes don't go up too much and healthcare innovation and availability aren't too impacted; worst-case scenario they weigh down the whole system with heavy price controls, and there's no incentive to actually have employer-provided healthcare so we end up with a lot more people on Whatever-For-All and a lot more taxes.
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Jennifer
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Jennifer » 14 Dec 2018, 18:13

JD wrote:
14 Dec 2018, 13:53
no incentive to actually have employer-provided healthcare
IMO that would be a good thing -- the idea that health insurance is something you get through your job rather than something you get on your own is a huuuuuge problem with the current (and pre-Obamacare) status quo.
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Mo
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There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Mo » 14 Dec 2018, 19:08

Jennifer wrote:
JD wrote:
14 Dec 2018, 13:53
no incentive to actually have employer-provided healthcare
IMO that would be a good thing -- the idea that health insurance is something you get through your job rather than something you get on your own is a huuuuuge problem with the current (and pre-Obamacare) status quo.
Even in the land of NHS, employers provide additional insurance to “cut in line” or go to private providers as well. I suspect the equivalent of the people who have to wait 9 months for a hip replacement in the UK, would be uninsured or not have hip replacements covered in the US.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Jennifer
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Jennifer » 14 Dec 2018, 21:48

Mo wrote:
14 Dec 2018, 19:08
Jennifer wrote:
JD wrote:
14 Dec 2018, 13:53
no incentive to actually have employer-provided healthcare
IMO that would be a good thing -- the idea that health insurance is something you get through your job rather than something you get on your own is a huuuuuge problem with the current (and pre-Obamacare) status quo.
Even in the land of NHS, employers provide additional insurance to “cut in line” or go to private providers as well. I suspect the equivalent of the people who have to wait 9 months for a hip replacement in the UK, would be uninsured or not have hip replacements covered in the US.
Having employers offer "fancy" insurance as a perk is fine, IMO; my complaint is the status quo that insurance in general is something you get from your employer. There are probably employers that offer extra-nice car insurance as an employee perk too; I just don't want to see a situation employers are expected to provide car insurance, so part-time or independent-contractor types take it for granted that of course their car insurance will be vastly more expensive than what they'd have if they were hired as a full-time employee somewhere.
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Aresen » 15 Dec 2018, 01:09

Jennifer wrote:
14 Dec 2018, 21:48
Mo wrote:
14 Dec 2018, 19:08
Jennifer wrote:
JD wrote:
14 Dec 2018, 13:53
no incentive to actually have employer-provided healthcare
IMO that would be a good thing -- the idea that health insurance is something you get through your job rather than something you get on your own is a huuuuuge problem with the current (and pre-Obamacare) status quo.
Even in the land of NHS, employers provide additional insurance to “cut in line” or go to private providers as well. I suspect the equivalent of the people who have to wait 9 months for a hip replacement in the UK, would be uninsured or not have hip replacements covered in the US.
Having employers offer "fancy" insurance as a perk is fine, IMO; my complaint is the status quo that insurance in general is something you get from your employer. There are probably employers that offer extra-nice car insurance as an employee perk too; I just don't want to see a situation employers are expected to provide car insurance, so part-time or independent-contractor types take it for granted that of course their car insurance will be vastly more expensive than what they'd have if they were hired as a full-time employee somewhere.
In Canada everyone is automatically covered by Medicare unless they specifically opt out. Even then, they can only opt out for themselves and not for dependent children. There is absolutely no benefit to doing so - no tax breaks or anything else.

You can also buy extra coverage from private insurers that pays for extras - like private rooms - or covers medications. [The government covers about 2/3 of health costs. The rest is paid for privately.] If you travel abroad, you have to buy travel insurance.
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by JasonL » 15 Dec 2018, 07:56

I thought more than 2/3. You guys don’t have co pays right?

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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Aresen » 15 Dec 2018, 10:45

JasonL wrote:
15 Dec 2018, 07:56
I thought more than 2/3. You guys don’t have co pays right?
No co-pays on basic care. The Fraser Institute (a libertarian-ish econ think-tank) has estimated that even a $5 co-pay would eliminate most of the wait lines in emergency rooms and save billions of dollars, but it's a political non-starter.
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Warren » 15 Dec 2018, 11:09

Aresen wrote:
15 Dec 2018, 10:45
JasonL wrote:
15 Dec 2018, 07:56
I thought more than 2/3. You guys don’t have co pays right?
No co-pays on basic care. The Fraser Institute (a libertarian-ish econ think-tank) has estimated that even a $5 co-pay would eliminate most of the wait lines in emergency rooms and save billions of dollars, but it's a political non-starter.
Wow
THIS SPACE FOR RENT

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Pham Nuwen
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Pham Nuwen » 15 Dec 2018, 11:12

I'm gonna need a link to that, Aresen. That sounds interesting as hell.
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Aresen » 15 Dec 2018, 11:21

Pham Nuwen wrote:
15 Dec 2018, 11:12
I'm gonna need a link to that, Aresen. That sounds interesting as hell.
I think this is the item. The abstract doesn't give the numbers, which are in the full report linked at the bottom of the page.
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Jennifer
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Jennifer » 15 Dec 2018, 17:34

Federal judge in Texas rules individual mandate unconstitutional.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/14/politics ... index.html

I have not read the specific details of this ruling, but my gut is to agree with it. The mandate was my primary complaint about O-care in the first place: I have no objection to tax money helping to cover people's medical costs, but I seriously disliked the precedent of people being required by law to become a customer of a given private company, simply because those people exist and live in America.
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by lunchstealer » 15 Dec 2018, 18:29

Jennifer wrote:Federal judge in Texas rules individual mandate unconstitutional.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/14/politics ... index.html

I have not read the specific details of this ruling, but my gut is to agree with it. The mandate was my primary complaint about O-care in the first place: I have no objection to tax money helping to cover people's medical costs, but I seriously disliked the precedent of people being required by law to become a customer of a given private company, simply because those people exist and live in America.
I am also okay with killing the mandate, but he decided that that killed every provision in the ACA rather than severing the mandate which is questionable af.
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Mo » 15 Dec 2018, 18:52

Dude is pretty well known partisan judge and his logic that a $0 mandate is the lynchpin of O-Care is pretty questionable.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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lunchstealer
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by lunchstealer » 15 Dec 2018, 19:27

Mo wrote:
15 Dec 2018, 18:52
Dude is pretty well known partisan judge and his logic that a $0 mandate is the lynchpin of O-Care is pretty questionable.
Especially, if the op-ed about it by a pair of law profs at CWRU (which totally looks like it's Welsh for "squirrel" or something) is correct, since the idea that it is the lynchpin has to be based on Congressional intent, and since Congress zeroed out the mandate tax without repealing the rest of the bill, it's a MASSIVE stretch to say that the Congress that amended the law believes that the law shouldn't be on the books without an enforced mandate, which means that the collective judgement of Congress as indicated by the vote on the repeal of the tax penalty was that the ACA could function without a mandate. It's not up to a judge to figure out if the law can function without the mandate if there's a Congressional vote that gives guidance on that front.
"The constitution is more of a BDSM agreement with a safe word." - Sandy

"Neoliberalism. Austerity. Booga booga!!!!" - JasonL

"We can't confirm rumors that Lynndie England is in the running to be Gina Haspel's personal aide." - DAR

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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Aresen » 15 Dec 2018, 19:33

The interesting possibility is if the AG of Texas or the US AG decide not to appeal the verdict.
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Hugh Akston » 15 Dec 2018, 20:02

Uh didn't SCOTUS already decide the penaltax is constitutional? Is there any reason they would actually review this case?
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Aresen » 15 Dec 2018, 20:10

Hugh Akston wrote:
15 Dec 2018, 20:02
Uh didn't SCOTUS already decide the penaltax is constitutional? Is there any reason they would actually review this case?
That's what I remember, which is why this case raised my eyebrows. Seems the Texas Yudge is trying to over-rule the SCOTUS.

But if the Texas and Federal AG's decided not to appeal, couldn't this be a back door repeal of ACA?
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

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