There must be a pony in here somewhere.

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Fin Fang Foom
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Fin Fang Foom » 09 Oct 2013, 23:34

Ellie wrote:
some random doofus on Facebook whom I wasted precious seconds reading for some reason wrote:When the unthinkable comes comes to your door, not having to worry about insurance is huge! Ever wonder about what you would dio if your time with your loved one is limited? Without guaranteed healthcare you walk out the door every day and go to work to protect your health insuran.
Oh shit, people having to go to work on a regular basis in order to make sure they have money to pay for goods and services? THAT SHIT CAN'T STAND
WWDD(What Would Dio Do)?

Clearly, the Last in Line is about ACA . . . and stabbing Borg in the junk with lightsabers.


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Ayn_Randian
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Ayn_Randian » 10 Oct 2013, 09:13

Last I checked, we had this small thing called the FMLA that lets you keep your coverage without going to work.
It has the effect of making me want desperately to do the opposite of what Green Day is suggesting I should want to do. Billy Joe Whassname may have created a generation of war mongers. - Jason L

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Warren
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Warren » 10 Oct 2013, 10:49

Ayn_Randian wrote:Last I checked, we had this small thing called the FMLA that lets you keep your coverage without going to work.
But you have to keep paying for it. Pay more for it since you now have to pay whatever your employer was paying. Which you can't afford since you're out of work.
Nice in principle, meaningless in application.
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Jennifer
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Jennifer » 10 Oct 2013, 12:01

Yeah, the times I was unemployed I never bothered applying for COBRA benefits, because the premiums would've cost more than the entirety of my unemployment checks.
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Ayn_Randian
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Ayn_Randian » 10 Oct 2013, 13:11

Warren wrote:
Ayn_Randian wrote:Last I checked, we had this small thing called the FMLA that lets you keep your coverage without going to work.
But you have to keep paying for it. Pay more for it since you now have to pay whatever your employer was paying. Which you can't afford since you're out of work.
Nice in principle, meaningless in application.
yes you have to keep paying it. No, I've never heard of, nor do I think it is true that, you have to pay "whatever your employer was paying". The employer is obligated to continue its contribution towards your health care.

I would also quibble with the notion that one is "out of work" while on FMLA. That isn't accurate. I recognize that one with a sick family member may be in a tough spot, but that's the nature of familial illnesses. And it isn't as if you get to stop paying your Obamacare premium because your loved one is sick, so Ellie's FB friend is just full of fail.
It has the effect of making me want desperately to do the opposite of what Green Day is suggesting I should want to do. Billy Joe Whassname may have created a generation of war mongers. - Jason L

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Andrew
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Andrew » 10 Oct 2013, 13:30

I think there's some confusion about FMLA vs. COBRA going on here.
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holy shit there will never be an end until the sweet release of death (as dictated by the death panels, natch) - lunch

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fyodor
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by fyodor » 10 Oct 2013, 13:35

Andrew wrote:I think there's some confusion about FMLA vs. COBRA going on here.
They're not the same thing of course, but mightn't they have the same effect re you're not working for nor getting a paycheck from your employer but the law requires said employer to maintain your health insurance BUT you have to pay for it?
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Highway
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Highway » 10 Oct 2013, 13:44

No, with FMLA, if we believe A_R, then your employer continues to provide the employer's contribution, while on COBRA, you can still buy the same insurance but there's no obligation for anyone else to pay for it. This seems a little off, still, since FMLA could be a huge exposure for the employer and would seem to incentivize them to reduce the amount they contribute to health insurance, since someone who's on leave is not productive at all for the company, and they are basically still paying that overhead as if they were working their normal amount.
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Ayn_Randian
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Ayn_Randian » 10 Oct 2013, 13:47

I don't think the savings the employer could realize by reducing their contribution would be worth what it would do to all of the other employees' job satisfaction, and it isn't as if the employer can reduce it *while* you're on FMLA. FMLA is used to so rarely (in my experience while doing employment law) that I cannot see an organization really planning around it.
It has the effect of making me want desperately to do the opposite of what Green Day is suggesting I should want to do. Billy Joe Whassname may have created a generation of war mongers. - Jason L

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fyodor
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by fyodor » 10 Oct 2013, 13:48

I'm pretty sure with COBRA you pay the full amount. At least I know from my own job that people are paying more than the usual employee contribution.
Your optimism just confuses and enrages me. - Timothy

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Andrew
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Andrew » 10 Oct 2013, 13:55

Ayn_Randian wrote:FMLA is used to so rarely (in my experience while doing employment law) that I cannot see an organization really planning around it.
Wait, really? I would think it's a pretty common issue since any woman of child-bearing age is likely to use it.
We live in the fucked age. Get used to it. - dhex

holy shit there will never be an end until the sweet release of death (as dictated by the death panels, natch) - lunch

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Warren
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Warren » 10 Oct 2013, 14:17

Andrew wrote:I think there's some confusion about FMLA vs. COBRA going on here.
Check.
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Warren
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Warren » 10 Oct 2013, 14:20

Andrew wrote:
Ayn_Randian wrote:FMLA is used to so rarely (in my experience while doing employment law) that I cannot see an organization really planning around it.
Wait, really? I would think it's a pretty common issue since any woman of child-bearing age is likely to use it.
Pretty much every co-worker that's gotten pregnant I've ever known has used it.
Bitch about Brexit to your hearts content, but stay out of my historical movies. - Nick Hodges

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Ayn_Randian
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Ayn_Randian » 10 Oct 2013, 14:24

Maybe it's the rarefied air I breathe.

I guess what I should have said was that FMLA is not really used for the full three months, and I can't imagine an organization cutting its employment contribution to healthcare enterprise-wide for the employees who may use it once for, at most, a month.
It has the effect of making me want desperately to do the opposite of what Green Day is suggesting I should want to do. Billy Joe Whassname may have created a generation of war mongers. - Jason L

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Ellie
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Ellie » 10 Oct 2013, 14:34

Yeah, I mean, you have a job to come back to with FMLA, but it's unpaid while you're out, so you have that incentive to come back to work a lot faster. And probably since you ARE coming back within three months they either just cover your work with existing employees or hire someone temporary who won't qualify for health insurance anyway, so it's not like they're paying MORE towards insurance than they would if you were working.
I should have listened to Warren. He was right again as usual.

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Warren
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Warren » 10 Oct 2013, 14:37

Ayn_Randian wrote:Maybe it's the rarefied air I breathe.

I guess what I should have said was that FMLA is not really used for the full three months, and I can't imagine an organization cutting its employment contribution to healthcare enterprise-wide for the employees who may use it once for, at most, a month.
My recollection is that most every women claimed she'd only take a few weeks after the delivery, but every last one of them took the full three months. This would be about half a dozen women in three different states over the years.
Bitch about Brexit to your hearts content, but stay out of my historical movies. - Nick Hodges

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Stevo Darkly
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Stevo Darkly » 10 Oct 2013, 17:26

Yeah, COBRA vs. FMLA, in a simplified nutshell:

COBRA: Suppose your job ends. In a previously existing Hobbesian state of nature, that would mean your health plan coverage through your employer would end too. However (unless you got fired for peeing in the watercooler or some other form of misconduct) under the law known as COBRA you have the right to continue your health coverage for up to another 18 months. In this case, I you pay the full amount of your premiums (what your employer was paying plus the part that you were paying ) plus a small amount (up to 2% of the premium) for administrative costs. The law prevents the premium from being jacked up because it's now COBRA coverage.

In some cases, an employer may choose to pay all or part of an employee's COBRA costs.

There are some other things that may qualify you for COBRA coverage besides losing your job -- for example, if you go from full-time to part-time and you no longer work enough hours to qualify for medical coverage because it is only offered to full-time employees. (Offhand, I don't know whether it makes a difference if you go from full-time to part-time voluntarily vs. involuntarily. It might.)

FMLA: By law, you have the right to unpaid leave for up to 12 weeks (sometimes 26 weeks) if you qualify for this type of leave.* (Some employers may also pay you during part or all of the leave. They may also require you to use up all of your paid vacation first before taking FMLA leave.)

During FMLA leave, your employer usually continues to pay for its share of your health coverage, as if you were still actively at work. I'm not sure how your employee share of the premiums are handled, since if you're on unpaid leave you don't have paychecks from which your share can be deducted. I think you may get billed for your share of the premiums.

It could conceivably happen that while you are out on FMLA leave, something happens that also qualifies you for COBRA (for example, your full-time position is turned into a part-time position, I think). However, this is rare enough that if it happens, employers get in a tizzy and have to call their lawyers to find out what to do. At least that is my impression.

That's about all I know. Or think I know.

*Qualifying for FMLA leave:
Basic Provisions/Requirements
The FMLA entitles eligible employees of covered employers to take job-protected, unpaid leave for specified family and medical reasons. Eligible employees are entitled to:

- Twelve workweeks of leave in any 12-month period for:

---- Birth and care of the employee's child, within one year of birth
---- Placement with the employee of a child for adoption or foster care, within one year of the placement
---- Care of an immediate family member (spouse, child, parent) who has a serious health condition
---- For the employee's own serious health condition that makes the employee unable to perform the essential functions of his or her job
---- Any qualifying exigency arising out of the fact that the employee’s spouse, son, daughter, or parent is on active duty or has been notified of an impending call or order to active duty in the U.S. National Guard or Reserves in support of a contingency operation

- Twenty-six workweeks of leave during a single 12-month period to care for a covered servicemember with a serious injury or illness if the employee is the spouse, son, daughter, parent, or next of kin of the servicemember (Military Caregiver Leave)
Source of above quote: http://www.dol.gov/compliance/guide/fmla.htm
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Ayn_Randian
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Ayn_Randian » 10 Oct 2013, 17:33

To answer your question, Stevo, yes, you can: get billed for your premium; your employer can choose to cover your part of the premium too (ha ha), or your employer will hold it as a debt for when you get back to work and then deduct it from your check until you cover your piece.
It has the effect of making me want desperately to do the opposite of what Green Day is suggesting I should want to do. Billy Joe Whassname may have created a generation of war mongers. - Jason L

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Kolohe
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Kolohe » 10 Oct 2013, 17:53

Stevo, with your excellent command of the applicable health insurance system, should one call you a COBRA Commander?
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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Stevo Darkly
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Stevo Darkly » 10 Oct 2013, 18:14

Kolohe wrote:Stevo, with your excellent command of the applicable health insurance system, should one call you a COBRA Commander?
Ken, you magnificent bastard.
"I don't know if you can call it a stereotype when I was in a room full of people actually doing it." -- Keith S.

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the innominate one
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by the innominate one » 10 Oct 2013, 19:33

I see you more as a Destro.
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Taktix®
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Taktix® » 11 Oct 2013, 13:53

Stevo Darkly wrote:...unless you got fired for peeing in the watercooler...
Dammit!
"Guilty as charged. Go ahead and ban me from the mall." - Ellie

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Stevo Darkly
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Stevo Darkly » 14 Oct 2013, 18:42

the innominate one wrote:I see you more as a Destro.
Not being well-versed in the modern G.I. Joe mythos*, I had to look up that character.

Pretty cool. I'll take it.

*My regular contact with G.I. Joe ended when he was a fuzzy-bearded member of the Adventure Team(TM) and spent his time being an astronaut or hunting white tigers and stuff.
"I don't know if you can call it a stereotype when I was in a room full of people actually doing it." -- Keith S.

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the innominate one
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by the innominate one » 14 Oct 2013, 18:54

He's romantically involved with the Baronness.
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." -E Benn

"No shit, Sherlock." -JsubD

"now is the time to go fuck yourself until you die." -dhex

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Ayn_Randian
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Re: There must be a pony in here somewhere.

Post by Ayn_Randian » 15 Oct 2013, 13:00

So questions:

1. If you enroll in a plan but don't pay, are you kicked out of your plan and then fined for doing so?
2. What if your income changes suddenly? Are you eligible to change plans?
3. Will we wind up delaying the mandate due to website issues? If so, isn't that what the Republicans wanted and if not, isn't that a bit capricious?
It has the effect of making me want desperately to do the opposite of what Green Day is suggesting I should want to do. Billy Joe Whassname may have created a generation of war mongers. - Jason L

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