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Setec Astronomy

Posted: 06 Jun 2013, 19:57
by Hugh Akston
For discussions of all things related to privacy, government transparency, wiretapping, domestic espionage, and general acronymic skulduggery.

To kick things off: When Obama loses the support of Politico and the NYT, you know things have taken a turn.

Re: Setec Astronomy

Posted: 06 Jun 2013, 20:47
by Mo
But he has the support of the National Review.

Re: Setec Astronomy

Posted: 06 Jun 2013, 21:00
by Mo
Actually, the Verizon stuff is the least bad revelation this week.

Re: Setec Astronomy

Posted: 06 Jun 2013, 21:43
by Ayn_Randian
Mo wrote:Actually, the Verizon stuff is the least bad revelation this week.
That program has an awesome '60s-villian name. Like SPECTRE or something else out of Bond film. It's good enough to dust this off:

Image

Re: Setec Astronomy

Posted: 06 Jun 2013, 22:06
by nicole
One moderately interesting tweet I saw, and several replies, wondering about the tech companies denying involvement in PRISM. My immediate assumption was just that PR had (intentionally) not been informed. Regardless, it seems the story is well confirmed at this point.

Re: Setec Astronomy

Posted: 06 Jun 2013, 22:29
by Taktix®
Mo wrote:Actually, the Verizon stuff is the least bad revelation this week.
I saw this headline earlier and I wasn't ready to click on it and then I saw it here and I did and I read it and I'm going to be sick... AAAAAARGH FREEDOM IS DEAAAAAAD!!!!!!!!

Excuse me *pats forehead with folded handkerchief*

Re: Setec Astronomy

Posted: 06 Jun 2013, 22:35
by Taktix®
Looks like they found a massive phone call database too: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld ... 3648.story

WhatTheFucksGoingOn?!? Is someone like Anonymous leaking tons of stuff because of the Bradley Manning trial this week or something?

Can I hope the reality of "warrantless wiretapping" is finally hitting home?

Re: Setec Astronomy

Posted: 06 Jun 2013, 22:39
by Ayn_Randian
Taktix® wrote:Looks like they found a massive phone call database too: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld ... 3648.story

WhatTheFucksGoingOn?!? Is someone like Anonymous leaking tons of stuff because of the Bradley Manning trial this week or something?

Can I hope the reality of "warrantless wiretapping" is finally hitting home?
Hm, that is a curious theory. I like it.

Re: Setec Astronomy

Posted: 06 Jun 2013, 23:35
by Ayn_Randian
You know what I like about all of these political controversies? I get to learn a whole boatload of names I didn't know before. Lois Lerner, Jake Clapper, Eric Schmidt (no, I didn't know nor did I care)...

Re: Setec Astronomy

Posted: 07 Jun 2013, 01:41
by thoreau
Honestly, at this point it is hard for me to muster the outrage. I burned out my outrage in 2006-2008, when the wiretapping was publicly revealed and then immunity was granted to collaborators in the telecoms industry. At that point, I pretty much figured that they get anything and everything that we do. And, yeah, they do get everything. I'm not in favor, I'm just so tired and unsurprised that it's hard to get my outrage on.

I know that some of what they're reporting now was not previously reported, and so maybe it's news, but I just kind of made some reasonable assumptions and filled in the blanks.

Re: Setec Astronomy

Posted: 07 Jun 2013, 01:44
by thoreau
BTW, why is it that every report assumes that this is all being done to track terrorist activity? I imagine they're tracking all sorts of activities besides terrorism. And given how rare terrorists are, and how common all sorts of other interesting activities are (both legal and illegal), I'd imagine that most of what the NSA finds has zilch to do with terrorism.

Oh, and they're presumably reading this forum right now.

Re: Setec Astronomy

Posted: 07 Jun 2013, 02:06
by dbcooper
IIRC, Tax and then drugs are both targeted more often than terrorism.

Re: Setec Astronomy

Posted: 07 Jun 2013, 02:08
by Warren
dbcooper wrote:IIRC, Tax and then drugs are both targeted more often than terrorism.
The way I heard it, they were looking for terrorists and just happened to find Tax Cheats and Drug Dealers.

Re: Setec Astronomy

Posted: 07 Jun 2013, 02:16
by Taktix®
thoreau wrote:Honestly, at this point it is hard for me to muster the outrage. I burned out my outrage in 2006-2008, when the wiretapping was publicly revealed and then immunity was granted to collaborators in the telecoms industry. At that point, I pretty much figured that they get anything and everything that we do. And, yeah, they do get everything. I'm not in favor, I'm just so tired and unsurprised that it's hard to get my outrage on.

I know that some of what they're reporting now was not previously reported, and so maybe it's news, but I just kind of made some reasonable assumptions and filled in the blanks.
I agree completely.

My frustration rests with everyone, family included, who didn't believe me when I said it was going on back in the 00's. Now everyone seems to be finally coming around too late.

My only hope is that because of the timing, with everything else coming out about out intellegence community, that reform on the Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act of 2001 will finally gain traction...

Re: Setec Astronomy

Posted: 07 Jun 2013, 11:12
by JasonL
Confession: I had to google the thread title. Didna get it.

Re: Setec Astronomy

Posted: 07 Jun 2013, 11:39
by Mo
Taktix® wrote:Looks like they found a massive phone call database too: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld ... 3648.story

WhatTheFucksGoingOn?!? Is someone like Anonymous leaking tons of stuff because of the Bradley Manning trial this week or something?

Can I hope the reality of "warrantless wiretapping" is finally hitting home?
If I was Glenn Greenwald, I would invest in a remote start for my car.

Re: Setec Astronomy

Posted: 07 Jun 2013, 11:53
by thoreau
And a food taster.

Re: Setec Astronomy

Posted: 07 Jun 2013, 11:54
by Hugh Akston
And a mail opening service.

Re: Setec Astronomy

Posted: 07 Jun 2013, 12:08
by dbcooper
I am not exactly shocked that the UK government is part of this program too ...

Re: Setec Astronomy

Posted: 07 Jun 2013, 15:17
by Andrew
thoreau wrote:Honestly, at this point it is hard for me to muster the outrage. I burned out my outrage in 2006-2008, when the wiretapping was publicly revealed and then immunity was granted to collaborators in the telecoms industry. At that point, I pretty much figured that they get anything and everything that we do. And, yeah, they do get everything. I'm not in favor, I'm just so tired and unsurprised that it's hard to get my outrage on.

I know that some of what they're reporting now was not previously reported, and so maybe it's news, but I just kind of made some reasonable assumptions and filled in the blanks.
+1. This article helped, too.

Re: Setec Astronomy

Posted: 07 Jun 2013, 15:40
by Ayn_Randian
Greenwald does it again.

Serious question: there really isn't anything preventing Glenn Greenwald from being droned, is there? To be clear, I am totally opposed to such a thing, but the logic of the Administration would seem to dictate that there is no legal obstacle to it.

Re: Setec Astronomy

Posted: 07 Jun 2013, 15:46
by thoreau
Ayn_Randian wrote:Greenwald does it again.

Serious question: there really isn't anything preventing Glenn Greenwald from being droned, is there? To be clear, I am totally opposed to such a thing, but the logic of the Administration would seem to dictate that there is no legal obstacle to it.
He might want to take up residence in a Bolivian embassy. Droning an embassy is (for now) against the rules.

Re: Setec Astronomy

Posted: 07 Jun 2013, 15:53
by dhex
even if he died in an entirely innocuous accident (car, sudden embolism, etc) it would look bad.

Re: Setec Astronomy

Posted: 07 Jun 2013, 15:56
by Aresen
Ayn_Randian wrote:Greenwald does it again.

Serious question: there really isn't anything preventing Glenn Greenwald from being droned, is there?
AFAICT, only the honesty, goodwill and good faith of the Obama* administration protects Glenn Greewald from being droned.

Re: Setec Astronomy

Posted: 07 Jun 2013, 16:34
by D.A. Ridgely
Aresen wrote:
Ayn_Randian wrote:Greenwald does it again.

Serious question: there really isn't anything preventing Glenn Greenwald from being droned, is there?
AFAICT, only the honesty, goodwill and good faith of the Obama* administration protects Glenn Greewald from being droned.
So where should we send flowers?