Roolz of the Rode

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Aresen
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Re: Roolz of the Rode

Post by Aresen » 08 Dec 2016, 12:00

nicole wrote:
Andrew wrote:My new commute on surface streets involves reverse lanes in the center of the road. During morning rush, they are for southbound and southbound-turning-left. During evening rush, they are for northbound and northbound-turning-left. At all other times, they are left turn lanes for both directions. There are signs every eighth of a mile explaining the rules and times/directions.

They make the evening commute quite exciting. There are 4 northbound lanes and 2 southbound lanes, and one of those southbound lanes has to double as a left turn lane. People use the northbound reverse lane as a fast lane, so although the speed limit is 35, people are regularly doing 50-55 in that lane. This is while they are mere feet from southbound traffic that's occasionally trying to turn left across four lanes. And woe to the northbound person making a left when that asshole going 50 comes up behind them (most impressive honking, screeching, and swerving).

I haven't looked up stats, but accident numbers can't be pretty on those streets.
That seems pretty crazy. Definitely not a good "fast lane" scenario.
Nor a good 'left turn' scenario. If a road is that important as a commuter artery, I am surprised that left turns are allowed at all.
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Highway
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Re: Roolz of the Rode

Post by Highway » 08 Dec 2016, 13:16

Aresen wrote:
nicole wrote:
Andrew wrote:My new commute on surface streets involves reverse lanes in the center of the road. During morning rush, they are for southbound and southbound-turning-left. During evening rush, they are for northbound and northbound-turning-left. At all other times, they are left turn lanes for both directions. There are signs every eighth of a mile explaining the rules and times/directions.

They make the evening commute quite exciting. There are 4 northbound lanes and 2 southbound lanes, and one of those southbound lanes has to double as a left turn lane. People use the northbound reverse lane as a fast lane, so although the speed limit is 35, people are regularly doing 50-55 in that lane. This is while they are mere feet from southbound traffic that's occasionally trying to turn left across four lanes. And woe to the northbound person making a left when that asshole going 50 comes up behind them (most impressive honking, screeching, and swerving).

I haven't looked up stats, but accident numbers can't be pretty on those streets.
That seems pretty crazy. Definitely not a good "fast lane" scenario.
Nor a good 'left turn' scenario. If a road is that important as a commuter artery, I am surprised that left turns are allowed at all.
It is VERY difficult to take left turns away, and even more so without putting a physical barrier. Telling people "Don't turn left on this stretch" just doesn't do it; they wanna go to that place there, they see a way to do it, so they do it. And when you do take the left turns away, you have a big outcry from businesses and residents that you've harmed them (because you have).
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Re: Roolz of the Rode

Post by Sandy » 08 Dec 2016, 14:18

This evidently does not phase New Jersey one bit. It was there that I learned why it's called a "Jersey wall."

Even if that's not the reason, it should be. Weirdest limited access I've ever seen.
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Re: Roolz of the Rode

Post by Highway » 08 Dec 2016, 14:27

Sandy wrote:This evidently does not phase New Jersey one bit. It was there that I learned why it's called a "Jersey wall."

Even if that's not the reason, it should be. Weirdest limited access I've ever seen.
The jughandles are just a different way of handling it. They work fine... if you know what's going on. They're certainly safer than lefts across traffic. Maryland is starting to use more setups where all lefts are handled by u-turns at the next signal, and right-in / right-out for all access.
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Mo
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Re: Roolz of the Rode

Post by Mo » 08 Dec 2016, 14:43

I fucking hate the Jersey jughandles. The whole GSP is a giant pain to navigate.
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Re: Roolz of the Rode

Post by JasonL » 08 Dec 2016, 14:54

Yah the problem with jughandles is you have to know ahead of time to go right on this random street so you can go left .25 miles ahead, but it isn't all lefts that work like this. PITA if you are not familiar with streets.

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Re: Roolz of the Rode

Post by Highway » 08 Dec 2016, 15:40

JasonL wrote:Yah the problem with jughandles is you have to know ahead of time to go right on this random street so you can go left .25 miles ahead, but it isn't all lefts that work like this. PITA if you are not familiar with streets.
This is true, but if 99.97% of the traffic on your road is local generated and destined traffic, then they learn pretty quick how to get there.

I'll also point out that this is another situation where my driving advice would do everyone well: Drive like you know where you're going, even if you don't. If you see that the place you want to go is inaccessible, or that you needed to turn right to turn left over there, don't panic, don't make a stupid move to get there. Just keep going, and you'll be able to turn around sooner than you think, in a safe manner, and get where you want to go without endangering yourself or the other drivers around you. Even if you have an appointment that you're late to, take the extra minute (may be up to 10 minutes on an interstate, but still, 10 minutes vs a crash is an easy calculation for me) to do this.
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Re: Roolz of the Rode

Post by nicole » 08 Dec 2016, 15:41

Highway wrote:
JasonL wrote:Yah the problem with jughandles is you have to know ahead of time to go right on this random street so you can go left .25 miles ahead, but it isn't all lefts that work like this. PITA if you are not familiar with streets.
This is true, but if 99.97% of the traffic on your road is local generated and destined traffic, then they learn pretty quick how to get there.

I'll also point out that this is another situation where my driving advice would do everyone well: Drive like you know where you're going, even if you don't. If you see that the place you want to go is inaccessible, or that you needed to turn right to turn left over there, don't panic, don't make a stupid move to get there. Just keep going, and you'll be able to turn around sooner than you think, in a safe manner, and get where you want to go without endangering yourself or the other drivers around you. Even if you have an appointment that you're late to, take the extra minute (may be up to 10 minutes on an interstate, but still, 10 minutes vs a crash is an easy calculation for me) to do this.
This is good advice and people who don't take it are a fucking scourge.
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Re: Roolz of the Rode

Post by Mo » 08 Dec 2016, 16:24

Highway wrote:
JasonL wrote:Yah the problem with jughandles is you have to know ahead of time to go right on this random street so you can go left .25 miles ahead, but it isn't all lefts that work like this. PITA if you are not familiar with streets.
This is true, but if 99.97% of the traffic on your road is local generated and destined traffic, then they learn pretty quick how to get there.

I'll also point out that this is another situation where my driving advice would do everyone well: Drive like you know where you're going, even if you don't. If you see that the place you want to go is inaccessible, or that you needed to turn right to turn left over there, don't panic, don't make a stupid move to get there. Just keep going, and you'll be able to turn around sooner than you think, in a safe manner, and get where you want to go without endangering yourself or the other drivers around you. Even if you have an appointment that you're late to, take the extra minute (may be up to 10 minutes on an interstate, but still, 10 minutes vs a crash is an easy calculation for me) to do this.
I agree. IIRC, my main annoyance with the GSP jughandles is that they're too far apart for the density and traffic.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Highway
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Re: Roolz of the Rode

Post by Highway » 08 Dec 2016, 17:33

Mo wrote:
Highway wrote:
JasonL wrote:Yah the problem with jughandles is you have to know ahead of time to go right on this random street so you can go left .25 miles ahead, but it isn't all lefts that work like this. PITA if you are not familiar with streets.
This is true, but if 99.97% of the traffic on your road is local generated and destined traffic, then they learn pretty quick how to get there.

I'll also point out that this is another situation where my driving advice would do everyone well: Drive like you know where you're going, even if you don't. If you see that the place you want to go is inaccessible, or that you needed to turn right to turn left over there, don't panic, don't make a stupid move to get there. Just keep going, and you'll be able to turn around sooner than you think, in a safe manner, and get where you want to go without endangering yourself or the other drivers around you. Even if you have an appointment that you're late to, take the extra minute (may be up to 10 minutes on an interstate, but still, 10 minutes vs a crash is an easy calculation for me) to do this.
I agree. IIRC, my main annoyance with the GSP jughandles is that they're too far apart for the density and traffic.
We don't use jughandles in Maryland, but my thoughts as a traffic engineer would be whether the storage areas for the jughandles fill up too quickly and back up into the through lanes. If they don't, then they aren't "too far apart" from a traffic demand standpoint.

You don't want to put them too close together, because that's expensive and it ruins the flow of your road. But too far apart and they'll get too clogged up with demand.
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Re: Roolz of the Rode

Post by dhex » 08 Dec 2016, 18:04

Sandy wrote:This evidently does not phase New Jersey one bit. It was there that I learned why it's called a "Jersey wall."

Even if that's not the reason, it should be. Weirdest limited access I've ever seen.
I have never heard the phrase Jersey Wall.
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Re: Roolz of the Rode

Post by Highway » 08 Dec 2016, 18:51

dhex wrote:
Sandy wrote:This evidently does not phase New Jersey one bit. It was there that I learned why it's called a "Jersey wall."

Even if that's not the reason, it should be. Weirdest limited access I've ever seen.
I have never heard the phrase Jersey Wall.
It's fairly common, also known as Jersey Barrier and less colloquially "Concrete Traffic Barrier". We don't install Jersey shapes anymore, Maryland uses F-shape barriers (which if you didn't know the difference, you'd swear they were exactly the same thing).
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Re: Roolz of the Rode

Post by Kolohe » 08 Dec 2016, 18:58

dhex wrote:
Sandy wrote:This evidently does not phase New Jersey one bit. It was there that I learned why it's called a "Jersey wall."

Even if that's not the reason, it should be. Weirdest limited access I've ever seen.
I have never heard the phrase Jersey Wall.
That's ... remarkable. Maybe you guys just called them walls, though? :)

In Kabul, Bagram, Kuwait, etc they had Jersey barriers (1m high), Texas barriers (2m high), and Alaska barriers (3m high).
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Re: Roolz of the Rode

Post by Dangerman » 08 Dec 2016, 19:00

Kolohe wrote:
dhex wrote:
Sandy wrote:This evidently does not phase New Jersey one bit. It was there that I learned why it's called a "Jersey wall."

Even if that's not the reason, it should be. Weirdest limited access I've ever seen.
I have never heard the phrase Jersey Wall.
That's ... remarkable. Maybe you guys just called them walls, though? :)

In Kabul, Bagram, Kuwait, etc they had Jersey barriers (1m high), Texas barriers (2m high), and Alaska barriers (3m high).
...and Colorado barriers, which are, like, really, really high, man.
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Re: Roolz of the Rode

Post by nicole » 09 Dec 2016, 07:53

dhex wrote:
Sandy wrote:This evidently does not phase New Jersey one bit. It was there that I learned why it's called a "Jersey wall."

Even if that's not the reason, it should be. Weirdest limited access I've ever seen.
I have never heard the phrase Jersey Wall.
Same, I had only head Jersey barrier before yesterday.
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Re: Roolz of the Rode

Post by Aresen » 24 Aug 2017, 00:30

A couple of observations on my drive to Cottage Grove and back:

1) I had not understood why so many people get wildly upset about lane hogs. We have few freeways in my area, so what little lane-hogging I have seen has been minor and usually connected with an upcoming left turn. (I don't think the latter really constitutes 'lane-hogging'.)

However, as I went down the I5, I saw an incredible number of people cruising in the left lane, blocking others who would have gone much faster. Some were going so slowly that they did not pull away from my position in the right lane for ten or fifteen miles. I had to watch for impatient drivers who would switch abruptly into the right lane just in front of me to get around the lane hogs.

2) Washington state has a rule on two lane roads ( Hwy 101, for example) that slow drivers cannot delay more that five vehicles and must pull to the turnouts to allow those behind them to pass. While this rule was flung down and danced on more times than I could count, I do have some sympathy for the slow drivers in that the turnouts were pathetically small and there was virtually no warning sign when you reached the turnout.
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Re: Roolz of the Rode

Post by Jake » 24 Aug 2017, 01:59

Lane discipline. This is where I turn iron-fisted tyrant. In Fruitbatopia, you WILL move to the right unless actively passing. If you fail to do this, you will be required to report to the machine that flings you into the sun.
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Re: Roolz of the Rode

Post by Jadagul » 24 Aug 2017, 02:08

These rules always confused me because I'd never seen two-lane highways. "Drive on the right" doesn't make much sense when the freeway has like six lanes.

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Re: Roolz of the Rode

Post by nicole » 24 Aug 2017, 06:32

Jake wrote:
24 Aug 2017, 01:59
Lane discipline. This is where I turn iron-fisted tyrant. In Fruitbatopia, you WILL move to the right unless actively passing. If you fail to do this, you will be required to report to the machine that flings you into the sun.
Newsletter pls
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Re: Roolz of the Rode

Post by Highway » 24 Aug 2017, 08:25

Jadagul wrote:
24 Aug 2017, 02:08
These rules always confused me because I'd never seen two-lane highways. "Drive on the right" doesn't make much sense when the freeway has like six lanes.
It is still important. The expectation should be to pass on the left, no matter what lane you are in. It's better for everyone if drivers move back over to the right when they can, because then you don't get people passing on the right. Passing on the right increases conflicts and potential accidents.
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Re: Roolz of the Rode

Post by Sandy » 24 Aug 2017, 10:03

Highway wrote:
24 Aug 2017, 08:25
Jadagul wrote:
24 Aug 2017, 02:08
These rules always confused me because I'd never seen two-lane highways. "Drive on the right" doesn't make much sense when the freeway has like six lanes.
It is still important. The expectation should be to pass on the left, no matter what lane you are in. It's better for everyone if drivers move back over to the right when they can, because then you don't get people passing on the right. Passing on the right increases conflicts and potential accidents.
Unless you develop a culture of "nobody must be able to merge into a lane because then they might win" like the DC area. Then you end up getting in left lane and never moving because there's a left exit 4 miles ahead but if you don't get in now you never will get the chance.
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Re: Roolz of the Rode

Post by Highway » 24 Aug 2017, 10:22

Sandy wrote:
24 Aug 2017, 10:03
Highway wrote:
24 Aug 2017, 08:25
Jadagul wrote:
24 Aug 2017, 02:08
These rules always confused me because I'd never seen two-lane highways. "Drive on the right" doesn't make much sense when the freeway has like six lanes.
It is still important. The expectation should be to pass on the left, no matter what lane you are in. It's better for everyone if drivers move back over to the right when they can, because then you don't get people passing on the right. Passing on the right increases conflicts and potential accidents.
Unless you develop a culture of "nobody must be able to merge into a lane because then they might win" like the DC area. Then you end up getting in left lane and never moving because there's a left exit 4 miles ahead but if you don't get in now you never will get the chance.
Yeah, after 20 years of a barely-out-of-the-neighborhood commute, I've been doing a freeway commute a couple days a week for the past year in Baltimore, and have found that the left lane, even at the same speed as the other lanes, will have the smallest headway (space between cars). You don't go faster if you're 6 feet behind the car in front, people.

Also since dhex mentioned it, I've noticed the terrible tailgating of quite a few drivers more than before. If I can read your coffee cup in my rear view mirror, you need to back off (because natch they're driving with one hand, and probably looking at the phone, too.)
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Re: Roolz of the Rode

Post by Jadagul » 24 Aug 2017, 14:38

Highway wrote:
24 Aug 2017, 08:25
Jadagul wrote:
24 Aug 2017, 02:08
These rules always confused me because I'd never seen two-lane highways. "Drive on the right" doesn't make much sense when the freeway has like six lanes.
It is still important. The expectation should be to pass on the left, no matter what lane you are in. It's better for everyone if drivers move back over to the right when they can, because then you don't get people passing on the right. Passing on the right increases conflicts and potential accidents.
Sure, I believe that, but it's way less of a rigid thing. In general people try to go faster on the left than on the right, but sometimes the flow of traffic has lane three going somewhat faster than lane four and that doesn't really cause any problems as far as I can tell. Especially in low-traffic situations, which is what I'm mainly thinking of.

But it can be a total disaster on two-lane highways because there's just not as much space to play with.

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Re: Roolz of the Rode

Post by Highway » 24 Aug 2017, 14:46

Jadagul wrote:
24 Aug 2017, 14:38
Highway wrote:
24 Aug 2017, 08:25
Jadagul wrote:
24 Aug 2017, 02:08
These rules always confused me because I'd never seen two-lane highways. "Drive on the right" doesn't make much sense when the freeway has like six lanes.
It is still important. The expectation should be to pass on the left, no matter what lane you are in. It's better for everyone if drivers move back over to the right when they can, because then you don't get people passing on the right. Passing on the right increases conflicts and potential accidents.
Sure, I believe that, but it's way less of a rigid thing. In general people try to go faster on the left than on the right, but sometimes the flow of traffic has lane three going somewhat faster than lane four and that doesn't really cause any problems as far as I can tell. Especially in low-traffic situations, which is what I'm mainly thinking of.

But it can be a total disaster on two-lane highways because there's just not as much space to play with.
It's still a safety issue because now you have people not expecting faster traffic in that lane. Plus it's frequently indicative of a situation where you have people who are obviously in the wrong lane, because other people are passing them on the right, especially if they are in the left-most lane.

Four-lane divided highways (two lanes each direction) are where this is the biggest issue, especially interstates, because you'll end up with two trucks that are both limited by GPS to 60 MPH or something, and one decides it's going to pass the other. Commence running side by side for the next 8 miles while traffic stacks up behind both of them.
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Re: Roolz of the Rode

Post by Jadagul » 24 Aug 2017, 14:48

Sorry, four-lane divided highways were the ones where I was saying it was the biggest issue; I meant two lanes in each direction. (Two lanes total is a totally different conversation)

I am currently used to driving on highways that have 4-6 lanes in each direction. Six lanes with no traffic isn't going to be perfectly sorted. The speed limit is 65, the guy in the left lane is going 80, and someone comes along who wants to drive faster than that.

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