Observations of the Random sort

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Painboy
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Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Painboy »

Eric the .5b wrote:
10 Nov 2018, 19:55
Reading remarks by some Blues online, I remain fascinated by how presidential responsibility for things like the economy works.

1) The bubble-burst and recession that started before GWB took office was the Bush recession, of course.
2) The later severe downturn before the Obama election was all Bush's fault, too.
3) Obama was of course responsible for every fleeting moment of upturn until the economy actually recovered, which was of course also to his credit.
4) Obama is also, of course, responsible for the current economic upturn, two years after leaving office. This is apparently because of all the things he did that, according the Blues during his term, he was completely unable to do because of Republicans and the Constitution.
Look if we had just given Obama the one ring everything would've been fine.*

*This thought immediately made me think of Trump as Golem and now I can't stop reading his tweets in that voice. NASTY SESSIONS! WE HATES THE MUELLER!

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thoreau
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Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by thoreau »

Painboy wrote:
11 Nov 2018, 12:46
Trump as Golem
Hey, don't blame him on the Jews!
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JD
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Re: Observations of the Random sort

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Eric the .5b wrote:
10 Nov 2018, 19:55
Reading remarks by some Blues online, I remain fascinated by how presidential responsibility for things like the economy works.
Don't you know that the President is solely, 100% responsible for the state of the economy? That means that if the economy is good, the President is smart and well-intentioned; if the economy is bad, it is because the President is stupid and evil. But the really amazing thing about this relationship is that it even works in reverse: if the President is stupid and evil, then the economy must be bad, and if the President is smart and good, then the economy must be good.
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Jennifer
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Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Jennifer »

Cops came by yesterday to inspect the contents of the garbage dumpster next to my building -- more precisely, to investigate the two ATMs that somehow ended up there.
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Aresen
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Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Aresen »

Jennifer wrote:
27 Nov 2018, 15:09
Cops came by yesterday to inspect the contents of the garbage dumpster next to my building -- more precisely, to investigate the two ATMs that somehow ended up there.
So, which set of thieves got the cash in the machines? :D
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Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Mo »

Technically the 2001 recession began in March, so it was after Bush took office. As for #4, it’s a continuation of the pre-2016 trend. There was a dip in growth in 2016, that is primarily due to the big drop in oil prices at the a few years after the US became a huge oil producer.
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Hugh Akston
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Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Hugh Akston »

I saw a bumper sticker on my way home today that said "Prayer is our best defense against evil", which actually explains a lot about the state of the world.
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JasonL
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Re: Observations of the Random sort

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It's like turmeric for the human condition.

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tr0g
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Re: Observations of the Random sort

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Hugh Akston wrote:
27 Nov 2018, 17:06
I saw a bumper sticker on my way home today that said "Prayer is our best defense against evil", which actually explains a lot about the state of the world.
I find a nice jacketed hollow point works better on a personal level, but it's inadequate for larger systemic issues.
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Andrew
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Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Andrew »

tr0g wrote:
28 Nov 2018, 13:04
Hugh Akston wrote:
27 Nov 2018, 17:06
I saw a bumper sticker on my way home today that said "Prayer is our best defense against evil", which actually explains a lot about the state of the world.
I find a nice jacketed hollow point works better on a personal level, but it's inadequate for larger systemic issues.
Larger systemic issues require fire.
We live in the fucked age. Get used to it. - dhex

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Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Warren »

Andrew wrote:
28 Nov 2018, 19:11
tr0g wrote:
28 Nov 2018, 13:04
Hugh Akston wrote:
27 Nov 2018, 17:06
I saw a bumper sticker on my way home today that said "Prayer is our best defense against evil", which actually explains a lot about the state of the world.
I find a nice jacketed hollow point works better on a personal level, but it's inadequate for larger systemic issues.
Larger systemic issues require fire.
Nuke from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
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thoreau
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Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by thoreau »

Warren wrote:
Andrew wrote:
28 Nov 2018, 19:11
tr0g wrote:
28 Nov 2018, 13:04
Hugh Akston wrote:
27 Nov 2018, 17:06
I saw a bumper sticker on my way home today that said "Prayer is our best defense against evil", which actually explains a lot about the state of the world.
I find a nice jacketed hollow point works better on a personal level, but it's inadequate for larger systemic issues.
Larger systemic issues require fire.
Nuke from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
Too limited. Needs moar SMOD.
"There are so few people at the Federal Mall it's almost as empty as it was at Trump's inauguration."
--D.A. Ridgely

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tr0g
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Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by tr0g »

Andrew wrote:
28 Nov 2018, 19:11
tr0g wrote:
28 Nov 2018, 13:04
Hugh Akston wrote:
27 Nov 2018, 17:06
I saw a bumper sticker on my way home today that said "Prayer is our best defense against evil", which actually explains a lot about the state of the world.
I find a nice jacketed hollow point works better on a personal level, but it's inadequate for larger systemic issues.
Larger systemic issues require fire.
#BTFSTTG
Yeah but how can you tell at a glance which junk a raccoon is packing? Also, gay raccoons? - Hugh Akston
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Hugh Akston
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Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Hugh Akston »

One one hand, Fox News' livestream of the GHWB body dump was a gross morbid power-fellating jingoistic jerkoff. On the other hand, since it was literally a camera pointed at a car containing a box containing a corpse, it was probably the least dumb thing ever broadcast on Fox News.
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Mo
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Observations of the Random sort

Post by Mo »

So the Weekly Standard may get shut down, not because their traffic is down, but because they insufficiently fellate Trump. That explains what NR balances their measured criticism of Trump with the Victor Davis Hanson mescaline induced conspiracy theories and Andy McCarthy’s legal gymnastics.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/04/media/we ... index.html
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Eric the .5b »

This old thread needs love, and it appears to be the last place anyone's discussed Marginal Revolution, sooo....

Does anyone have opinions about this "State Capacity Libertarianism" post? I actually had someone ask me if there were any reactions to this in the Libertarian Movement.

(I of course explained that we just had the Wolf's Moon, so the Libertarian Grand Council was still deliberating, and that the final answer and any potential Writs of Heresy, Exile, and/or Outlawry from the Movement will be given on the night of the Snow Moon.)

My reaction was that I haven't paid attention to this guy in a decade or so, so I might be missing context, but that this just sounds like conservatism to me. Sane-ish, low-Jesus conservatism, but conservatism. Right down to the bit that most makes me wary, about how one of the biggest functions of the state should be the "maintenance and extension of capitalism". (United Fruit Company holding on line 2...)

It's a bit of a weird flex to call a shift toward conservatism smart libertarianism at the same time the dominant form and major institutions of of conservatism have gone completely incontinent and feral, but hey...
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Re: Observations of the Random sort

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I'm no anarchocapitalist, but my default is to let markets deal with shit. The State should exist solely to safeguard the rights of the people. So, a judicial system, and a defense, and that's about it. I'm not going to say the State has no role in regulation. But I will observe that over regulation is our current environment. And speaking of environment, I'd like to let markets deal with climate change another forty or fifty years before we decide the State needs to be involved.
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Jennifer
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Re: Observations of the Random sort

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Warren wrote:
12 Jan 2020, 10:31
I'm no anarchocapitalist, but my default is to let markets deal with shit. The State should exist solely to safeguard the rights of the people. So, a judicial system, and a defense, and that's about it. I'm not going to say the State has no role in regulation. But I will observe that over regulation is our current environment. And speaking of environment, I'd like to let markets deal with climate change another forty or fifty years before we decide the State needs to be involved.
Huh? How can "the markets" deal with climate change (or any other tragedy of the commons issue) on their own? Especially since the overwhelming majority of things individuals might do to combat climate change actually have higher upfront costs compared to the "polluting" option. If markets were left to their own devices, with no government regulation, we'd probably all still be driving cars with leaded gasoline.
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JasonL
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Re: Observations of the Random sort

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I think he goes into some strange places, and I would not describe my own unifying theory as a desire to increase state capacity, but on the point by point policies I basically agree with Cowen.

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Jennifer
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Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Jennifer »

Eric the .5b wrote:
12 Jan 2020, 03:46
My reaction was that I haven't paid attention to this guy in a decade or so, so I might be missing context, but that this just sounds like conservatism to me. Sane-ish, low-Jesus conservatism, but conservatism. Right down to the bit that most makes me wary, about how one of the biggest functions of the state should be the "maintenance and extension of capitalism". (United Fruit Company holding on line 2...)
Yeah, I don't know precisely what he meant by this. (Confession: something about this entire essay left me distinctly unimpressed: I had to force myself to slog through reading it to participate in this discussion; nothing about it grabbed my attention and made me WANT to read it.)

It could be he simply meant the benign Captain Obvious observation "Maintaining and extending 'capitalism' requires a government that respects property rights, and maintains a fair and impartial court system to protect them." If he's talking about a state-enforced crony capitalism or oligarchy, or why we need more "Kelo v. New London" forced property transfers or "Bechtel privatizes the water supplies in Bolivia," of course that's a far different matter. But I have no idea which one he's talking about here.
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Painboy
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Re: Observations of the Random sort

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Jennifer wrote:
12 Jan 2020, 14:29
Warren wrote:
12 Jan 2020, 10:31
I'm no anarchocapitalist, but my default is to let markets deal with shit. The State should exist solely to safeguard the rights of the people. So, a judicial system, and a defense, and that's about it. I'm not going to say the State has no role in regulation. But I will observe that over regulation is our current environment. And speaking of environment, I'd like to let markets deal with climate change another forty or fifty years before we decide the State needs to be involved.
Huh? How can "the markets" deal with climate change (or any other tragedy of the commons issue) on their own? Especially since the overwhelming majority of things individuals might do to combat climate change actually have higher upfront costs compared to the "polluting" option. If markets were left to their own devices, with no government regulation, we'd probably all still be driving cars with leaded gasoline.
There is an argument that air pollution is pretty much exactly where society wants it based on their choices.

With climate change people can make choices that reduce their carbon footprint obviously. If not enough people are making that choice to make a difference then you can start paying those who haven't changed or ostracizing the one's who don't. But it's usually much easier to push people around than get their consent so people default to that.

As far as Cowen. He's basically a pragmatist when it comes to actual policy decisions. He's very much into what he sees as possible and realistic. He doesn't believe radical shifts are possible or even beneficial in many cases.

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Jennifer
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Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Jennifer »

Painboy wrote:
12 Jan 2020, 19:02
Jennifer wrote:
12 Jan 2020, 14:29
Warren wrote:
12 Jan 2020, 10:31
I'm no anarchocapitalist, but my default is to let markets deal with shit. The State should exist solely to safeguard the rights of the people. So, a judicial system, and a defense, and that's about it. I'm not going to say the State has no role in regulation. But I will observe that over regulation is our current environment. And speaking of environment, I'd like to let markets deal with climate change another forty or fifty years before we decide the State needs to be involved.
Huh? How can "the markets" deal with climate change (or any other tragedy of the commons issue) on their own? Especially since the overwhelming majority of things individuals might do to combat climate change actually have higher upfront costs compared to the "polluting" option. If markets were left to their own devices, with no government regulation, we'd probably all still be driving cars with leaded gasoline.
There is an argument that air pollution is pretty much exactly where society wants it based on their choices.
Except ... who, exactly, IS "society" in such instances?

I remember touring Fallingwater -- the Frank Lloyd Wright house somewhere in western Pennsylvania -- IIRC, the tour guide mentioned that Wright designed it for its original owners, who were some business bigwigs in Pittsburgh, and one reason they wanted a house in that location was to escape the really nasty coal-smoke smog that blanketed Pittsburgh back then. Nobody actually "wants" to breathe coal smoke, though admittedly almost all of us want the advantages those coal-fired factories brought: jobs, affordable consumer goods, etc. The factory owners who actually get rich from their coal-fired factories used their money to escape town when they could.

With climate change people can make choices that reduce their carbon footprint obviously. If not enough people are making that choice to make a difference then you can start paying those who haven't changed or ostracizing the one's who don't. But it's usually much easier to push people around than get their consent so people default to that.
You could've said the same thing about leaded vs. unleaded gasoline -- if people really opposed lead contamination in their environment, they could CHOOSE to demand unleaded-gas cars -- but still, given how the automotive and gasoline industries actually reacted when they were first presented with evidence of lead problems, I continue to think it likely that without anti-lead mandates, we'd still be driving leaded-gas cars today.

Plus, of course, there's the commons issue: even if I personally choose to make great personal and financial sacrifices to decrease or eliminate my carbon footprint, that doesn't matter if everyone else is continuing to increase theirs. Even if I personally drive a car with unleaded gasoline, that won't help if every other car on the road is belching out leaded-gas exhaust. Etc.
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Aresen
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Re: Observations of the Random sort

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Until you find a way to harness Maxwell's Demon, the atmosphere and the earth's water system are inevitably both commons.
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Pham Nuwen
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Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Pham Nuwen »

I mean I just dont understand the top down approach on climate change. They know all the major polluters and they know they will weasel out. There is a large incentive for cheating. It feels like a waste of time. I think we should be figuring out how to live with a changing environment not trying for some mystical one with nature outlook. And I view it as nothing more than an outlook.
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Jennifer
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Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Jennifer »

Pham Nuwen wrote:
13 Jan 2020, 02:01
I think we should be figuring out how to live with a changing environment not trying for some mystical one with nature outlook.
Those aren't the only two choices, though: we can work to adapt to changing environment in addition to finding ways to mitigate or undo the damage we've caused. Progress has been made in other areas already: we got rid of leaded gas rather than learn to live with it. And when the damage CFCs caused to the ozone layer was discovered, we phased out their use rather than live with a depleted O3 layer.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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