Observations of the Random sort

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dhex
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Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by dhex » 11 Aug 2017, 11:30

I guess I mean... It's free. It's the best price already!

Also it's called cum town.
"If they make a movie about Bothans pre-ROTJ that is basically a rip off of the Taking of Pelham 123, I would start masturbating in the theater." fffffffunnnngh

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Mo
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Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Mo » 11 Aug 2017, 11:32

Also, how does a guy with a masters in bio from real schools reference evolutionary psychology in 2017. At least referencing phrenology would be kicking it old school.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Shem
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Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Shem » 11 Aug 2017, 12:40

dhex wrote:
11 Aug 2017, 10:00
i mean, he's a schmuck.

the document was mischaracterized in headlines to be sure (i've read the memo), but he's either up to some degree of game of thrones fuckery *or* he's a naif who's about to discover what 15 minutes of fame hot glued to the alt light feels like.
If the guy in the "I'm not going to do scut work" article is the same as the one we're talking about, I suspect it's spending years among people who excuse his jackass behavior as being "hard-charging," leading him to run headlong into a thicket of fuck-that-noise nettles.
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Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Jasper » 11 Aug 2017, 13:23

Jennifer wrote:
10 Aug 2017, 16:46
Jasper wrote:
10 Aug 2017, 16:37
Mo wrote:
10 Aug 2017, 15:28
Dangerman wrote:Damore made the post on a board for posting about company stuff. If you're allowed (or encouraged) to discuss the topics of the day at work, it's pretty shitty to say that you are only allowed to talk positively or that your opinions aren't correct enough to be expressed on company time. If you ask for feedback, don't punish people for giving it.
That's adorable.

"Why did you say that I have a fat ass?"
"You asked me how you looked"
No need to be a condescending prick. Not everyone is up to speed on corp-speak, corp-culture, or office politicking in Fortune 500 companies. Or cares.

Should the guy have maybe known better? Sure. But there's an argument to be had about a company that basically runs the internet having an intranet full of forums and spaces that mimic the rest of the world. Don't be shocked, SHOCKED!, when employees talking politics and culture war in company spaces maybe get a little edgy and it leaks out.
On the other hand, Damore's screed specifically and explicitly blames "Marxist intellectuals" (exact quote) for any modern concerns about racism or sexism. As I said upthread, I don't think anybody wants to see a world where the mere "expression of an unpopular opinion" ruins one's professional chances -- but on the other hand, what is a company (or allegedly inferior colleagues) supposed to do, when that opinion is "Certain of my colleagues and/or customers are inherently inferior people, and if you believe otherwise, you're spreading Marxist propaganda?"

I recall a similar conundrum a couple years back, when an executive at Mozilla (IIRC) was let go because it turned out he was donating time and money to anti-gay-marriage political groups -- it sucks that someone lost his job merely for an unpopular opinion, but on the other hand that specific opinion was "Certain of my fellow citizens -- many of whom work for this company, or use this company's products -- don't deserve full equal legal rights." Are the "un-equal" people in question being oppressors, if they say "Y'know, I really don't want to work for or with a man who is so convinced of my inherent inferiority?" Or "Given how many identical products there are on the market, I choose to use the product made by executives who don't work to deprive me of equal rights?"
On the third hand, who cares, other than to just hear themselves talk?

Google ain't the government. Yet.
"Yeah, it seems a bit like pinning Timothy McVeigh on the KKK. Sure their OK Cupid profiles match 100%, but they never went on the date." - Shem

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Jasper
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Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Jasper » 11 Aug 2017, 13:28

Mo wrote:
10 Aug 2017, 18:26
Jasper wrote:
Mo wrote:
10 Aug 2017, 15:28
Dangerman wrote:Damore made the post on a board for posting about company stuff. If you're allowed (or encouraged) to discuss the topics of the day at work, it's pretty shitty to say that you are only allowed to talk positively or that your opinions aren't correct enough to be expressed on company time. If you ask for feedback, don't punish people for giving it.
That's adorable.

"Why did you say that I have a fat ass?"
"You asked me how you looked"
No need to be a condescending prick. Not everyone is up to speed on corp-speak, corp-culture, or office politicking in Fortune 500 companies. Or cares.

Should the guy have maybe known better? Sure. But there's an argument to be had about a company that basically runs the internet having an intranet full of forums and spaces that mimic the rest of the world. Don't be shocked, SHOCKED!, when employees talking politics and culture war in company spaces maybe get a little edgy and it leaks out.
There's a difference between corp speak and knowing your audience. No matter how chummy the environment, it's still work. I have a great relationship with my boss and he'll take me out for drinks on occasion. At the same time, I know, right now at least, he's my boss and not my friend. Getting too familiar is a bad idea and there are things that I couldn't say to him. Granted, a lot of this came from 15 years of being in the workforce, making mistakes and witnessing mistakes.
On this, we agree. Company size also plays into it. Owners/execs at my place are all good people, and we middling managers can get away with complaints and criticisms because we're much more "close knit".
"Yeah, it seems a bit like pinning Timothy McVeigh on the KKK. Sure their OK Cupid profiles match 100%, but they never went on the date." - Shem

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Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Jasper » 11 Aug 2017, 13:33

Kolohe wrote:
10 Aug 2017, 20:39
Mo wrote:
10 Aug 2017, 18:26
. Granted, a lot of this came from 15 years of being in the workforce, making mistakes and witnessing mistakes.
Yeah, I think an underappreciated dynamic of this is that this is, if I'm not mistaken, his first 'real' job outside of academia.
Oh geez. Yeah. Noob. Helluva costly lesson.
"Yeah, it seems a bit like pinning Timothy McVeigh on the KKK. Sure their OK Cupid profiles match 100%, but they never went on the date." - Shem

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Mo
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Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Mo » 11 Aug 2017, 13:56

Jasper wrote:
Mo wrote:
10 Aug 2017, 18:26
Jasper wrote:
Mo wrote:
10 Aug 2017, 15:28
Dangerman wrote:Damore made the post on a board for posting about company stuff. If you're allowed (or encouraged) to discuss the topics of the day at work, it's pretty shitty to say that you are only allowed to talk positively or that your opinions aren't correct enough to be expressed on company time. If you ask for feedback, don't punish people for giving it.
That's adorable.

"Why did you say that I have a fat ass?"
"You asked me how you looked"
No need to be a condescending prick. Not everyone is up to speed on corp-speak, corp-culture, or office politicking in Fortune 500 companies. Or cares.

Should the guy have maybe known better? Sure. But there's an argument to be had about a company that basically runs the internet having an intranet full of forums and spaces that mimic the rest of the world. Don't be shocked, SHOCKED!, when employees talking politics and culture war in company spaces maybe get a little edgy and it leaks out.
There's a difference between corp speak and knowing your audience. No matter how chummy the environment, it's still work. I have a great relationship with my boss and he'll take me out for drinks on occasion. At the same time, I know, right now at least, he's my boss and not my friend. Getting too familiar is a bad idea and there are things that I couldn't say to him. Granted, a lot of this came from 15 years of being in the workforce, making mistakes and witnessing mistakes.
On this, we agree. Company size also plays into it. Owners/execs at my place are all good people, and we middling managers can get away with complaints and criticisms because we're much more "close knit".
My boss is a great guy and he wants me to be honest. Part of the reason he hired me is that I was the guy outside his group that gave him (an exec 2 levels up at the time) the real story and not the company line. But even my "honest opinion" is still on the level of, "That dress isn't flattering, do something else," instead of, "Damn, that thing makes you look like complete shit," even if the latter is closer to the truth. In the land of the lies, the one truth man is king.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Dangerman » 11 Aug 2017, 14:14

I'm pretty sure he knew what was going to happen, which makes all the criticism about how he presented it pretty empty.

I still think that knowing you're going to be in trouble for doing something that isn't wrong doesn't make it stupid to do it anyway, if you can live with the consequences. I'm not totally in agreement with everything he wrote, but I think it's high time that someone pushed back in a big way against some of the assumptions that go into diversity programs. It will be interesting in a morbid way to see if he tries to become a Thought Leader or Social Media Personality (please no).
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JasonL
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Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by JasonL » 11 Aug 2017, 14:30

Your credibility is part of your context. Quite a bit of it really. The amount of direct talk you can/should engage in is proportional to the amount of credibility you have with that audience. My management up say 3 tiers when doors are closed want me to say exactly what I'm thinking about stuff. When doors are closed.

I'm not sure what we mean when we say what he did "wasn't wrong". It was ineffective as influence at the org. It was partially supported by research and partially fabricated. It contained loaded language. It targeted a set of policies the leadership of the org believes in and considers important to their public image. Am I supposed to say that the part of what he said that is supported by research is the only thing that matters and therefore what he did is "right"?

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Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Dangerman » 11 Aug 2017, 14:35

No. But excoriating him seems pointless unless you think what he did was in some way, wrong.
"It's a proven fact that spicy mustard is good for your health no matter what your medical condition, which is why the feds are suing Guildens for a backdoor into their condiment technology." - TIO

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Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by JasonL » 11 Aug 2017, 14:49

He was about 3 parts wrong to one part right if we are judging his action in total. He was about half right if we judge merely research content of what he said.

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Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by JasonL » 11 Aug 2017, 14:56

The variance between consumer reports reviews and user reviews on the same site are pretty dramatic. At least for kitchen stuffs.

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Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Highway » 11 Aug 2017, 15:10

JasonL wrote:
11 Aug 2017, 14:56
The variance between consumer reports reviews and user reviews on the same site are pretty dramatic. At least for kitchen stuffs.
Is that for major appliances or small appliance things? I am tired of paying Consumer Reports a 6 dollar charge on my credit card for years (a decade ago), so I am really hesitant to use their site again.
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JasonL
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Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by JasonL » 11 Aug 2017, 15:25

Major appliances. I just started a subscription and I'm finding interesting variances in anecdotal, amazon type reviews, sweethome, and CR. The way they review ranges is ... interesting. It suggests they don't actually cook but instead use a set of metrics in interesting weights. They put a ton of weight on the lowest temperature of the lowest burner being low enough but give no credit for very high end heat like wok type 20k btu heat. The explanations I see in sweethome reviews make more sense to me in general. Customer reviews seem over committed due to price point on high end stuff or furious about outlier repairs.

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Jennifer
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Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Jennifer » 11 Aug 2017, 16:14

Jasper wrote:
11 Aug 2017, 13:23
Jennifer wrote:
10 Aug 2017, 16:46
Jasper wrote:
10 Aug 2017, 16:37
Mo wrote:
10 Aug 2017, 15:28
Dangerman wrote:Damore made the post on a board for posting about company stuff. If you're allowed (or encouraged) to discuss the topics of the day at work, it's pretty shitty to say that you are only allowed to talk positively or that your opinions aren't correct enough to be expressed on company time. If you ask for feedback, don't punish people for giving it.
That's adorable.

"Why did you say that I have a fat ass?"
"You asked me how you looked"
No need to be a condescending prick. Not everyone is up to speed on corp-speak, corp-culture, or office politicking in Fortune 500 companies. Or cares.

Should the guy have maybe known better? Sure. But there's an argument to be had about a company that basically runs the internet having an intranet full of forums and spaces that mimic the rest of the world. Don't be shocked, SHOCKED!, when employees talking politics and culture war in company spaces maybe get a little edgy and it leaks out.
On the other hand, Damore's screed specifically and explicitly blames "Marxist intellectuals" (exact quote) for any modern concerns about racism or sexism. As I said upthread, I don't think anybody wants to see a world where the mere "expression of an unpopular opinion" ruins one's professional chances -- but on the other hand, what is a company (or allegedly inferior colleagues) supposed to do, when that opinion is "Certain of my colleagues and/or customers are inherently inferior people, and if you believe otherwise, you're spreading Marxist propaganda?"

I recall a similar conundrum a couple years back, when an executive at Mozilla (IIRC) was let go because it turned out he was donating time and money to anti-gay-marriage political groups -- it sucks that someone lost his job merely for an unpopular opinion, but on the other hand that specific opinion was "Certain of my fellow citizens -- many of whom work for this company, or use this company's products -- don't deserve full equal legal rights." Are the "un-equal" people in question being oppressors, if they say "Y'know, I really don't want to work for or with a man who is so convinced of my inherent inferiority?" Or "Given how many identical products there are on the market, I choose to use the product made by executives who don't work to deprive me of equal rights?"
On the third hand, who cares, other than to just hear themselves talk?
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that everyone taking part in this discussion (except you, perhaps) cares about it to some degree.
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Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by dbcooper » 11 Aug 2017, 16:39

dhex wrote:
11 Aug 2017, 11:30
I guess I mean... It's free. It's the best price already!

Also it's called cum town.
Like Chapo they use the "one free, one premium per week" model.
Slip inside a sleeping bag.

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dhex
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Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by dhex » 11 Aug 2017, 16:48

ahh ok that makes more sense.
"If they make a movie about Bothans pre-ROTJ that is basically a rip off of the Taking of Pelham 123, I would start masturbating in the theater." fffffffunnnngh

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Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by dbcooper » 11 Aug 2017, 17:13

dhex wrote:
11 Aug 2017, 16:48
ahh ok that makes more sense.
Given their audience, it's not surprising that premium episodes are available free within minutes of posting on patreon.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CumTownArchive/
Slip inside a sleeping bag.

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Mo
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Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Mo » 11 Aug 2017, 17:30

Dangerman wrote:
11 Aug 2017, 14:35
No. But excoriating him seems pointless unless you think what he did was in some way, wrong.
Because it was. Posting that at the gryll is one thing, but at work? At least run that up the flag to your manager in confidence first.

Here's a good thread on "the science"

his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Shem
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Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Shem » 11 Aug 2017, 17:56

I'd find the idea that men are naturally more drawn to computer programming more compelling if a large number of the original programmers of computer systems hadn't been female. Maybe he should have argued that it was because women are naturally more drawn to low-prestige work.
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Mo
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Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Mo » 11 Aug 2017, 18:06

Well, he kinda did. I would like to hear the science behind why Asians are naturally inclined to run laundromats and Indians are inclined to run convenience stores independent of culture and path dependence.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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JasonL
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Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by JasonL » 11 Aug 2017, 18:13

Mo wrote:
11 Aug 2017, 17:30
Dangerman wrote:
11 Aug 2017, 14:35
No. But excoriating him seems pointless unless you think what he did was in some way, wrong.
Because it was. Posting that at the gryll is one thing, but at work? At least run that up the flag to your manager in confidence first.

Here's a good thread on "the science"

Haven't RTFT, but I will say that the accepted wisdom of social justice would find "mere" social forces explanations inadequate by a country mile. It's a bit like the gender pay gap discussion. We know that the top line bandied about number is garbage because it doesn't even control for similar jobs. When you control for most reasonable things, you get a persistent but much smaller pay gap. That pay gap is almost entirely explained, at least in some research, by the time sensitivity of job preferences. Dude lawyers get paid more in general because they are in types of law roles that are on call on demand or require immediate responses. That's the Claudia Goldin thing.

There's lots of room there for "why do we have these time sensitivity preferences" as a form of social forces inequality. Try running that thing or even getting social justice types to back off the garbage 78 cents on the dollar thing. Sells too many tee shirts, tells the story they'd rather tell.

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Mo
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Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Mo » 11 Aug 2017, 18:21

Just because SJWs are wrong does not mean that those that are opposed to them are right. See the enemy of enemy thread for examples from the other side.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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JasonL
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Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by JasonL » 11 Aug 2017, 21:28

Agreed

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Shem
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Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Shem » 11 Aug 2017, 23:02

JasonL wrote:
11 Aug 2017, 18:13
Dude lawyers get paid more in general because they are in types of law roles that are on call on demand or require immediate responses. That's the Claudia Goldin thing.
The research I've seen says it's not about demand so much as it's about motherhood. Childless women are more or less comparable to men. It's just women with children (who tend to either take their most productive years off to have kids or take more flexible, less lucrative jobs to allow for family care) who experience the gap. Given society's vested interest in having kids to replenish the supply of taxpayers, I'm sympathetic to arguments that this is something that ought to be addressed.
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