Observations of the Random sort

User avatar
JasonL
Posts: 20803
Joined: 05 May 2010, 17:22

Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by JasonL » 10 Aug 2017, 16:56

"Inferior" is unfair based on the memo text.

User avatar
Jennifer
Posts: 20278
Joined: 28 Apr 2010, 14:03

Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Jennifer » 10 Aug 2017, 16:59

nicole wrote:
10 Aug 2017, 16:54
Jennifer wrote:
10 Aug 2017, 16:46
Jasper wrote:
10 Aug 2017, 16:37
Mo wrote:
10 Aug 2017, 15:28
Dangerman wrote:Damore made the post on a board for posting about company stuff. If you're allowed (or encouraged) to discuss the topics of the day at work, it's pretty shitty to say that you are only allowed to talk positively or that your opinions aren't correct enough to be expressed on company time. If you ask for feedback, don't punish people for giving it.
That's adorable.

"Why did you say that I have a fat ass?"
"You asked me how you looked"
No need to be a condescending prick. Not everyone is up to speed on corp-speak, corp-culture, or office politicking in Fortune 500 companies. Or cares.

Should the guy have maybe known better? Sure. But there's an argument to be had about a company that basically runs the internet having an intranet full of forums and spaces that mimic the rest of the world. Don't be shocked, SHOCKED!, when employees talking politics and culture war in company spaces maybe get a little edgy and it leaks out.
On the other hand, Damore's screed specifically and explicitly blames "Marxist intellectuals" (exact quote) for any modern concerns about racism or sexism. As I said upthread, I don't think anybody wants to see a world where the mere "expression of an unpopular opinion" ruins one's professional chances -- but on the other hand, what is a company (or allegedly inferior colleagues) supposed to do, when that opinion is "Certain of my colleagues and/or customers are inherently inferior people, and if you believe otherwise, you're spreading Marxist propaganda?"
Have you actually read the memo?
Yes, I have. I'm guessing you have as well; what's your take on the "Marxist intellectuals" bit?
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

User avatar
Jennifer
Posts: 20278
Joined: 28 Apr 2010, 14:03

Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Jennifer » 10 Aug 2017, 17:00

JasonL wrote:
10 Aug 2017, 16:56
"Inferior" is unfair based on the memo text.
"Statistically likely to be unfit for the job," then, in the case of Google. Don't know what's the proper word or phrase to describe the former Mozilla executive's opinion of gay people, or Aaron Sobczak's view of women who'd like to participate in the liberty movement.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

User avatar
Highway
Posts: 12071
Joined: 12 May 2011, 00:22
Location: the Electric Ocean

Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Highway » 10 Aug 2017, 17:03

Sandy wrote:
10 Aug 2017, 15:24
Highway wrote:
10 Aug 2017, 12:27
Is that what those emails said? It seemed to me that a lot of them were people on the "same side" as Damore saying that they had their own blacklists. So basically there were two 'extreme' factions having a blacklist battle.
Do you have a link to the Damore side having blacklists? I've only seen ones saying Damore is on theirs, as was everyone supporting him.

I can of course believe it, since on "his side" are everybody who doesn't believe in complete blank slate-ism, including wackos who believe in complete genetic essentialism, aka the alt right and various flavors of racists.
No, I don't, because I missed some stuff in what I read before. I mean, like you, I can believe that everyone, no matter what "side" they're on, has a list of people they won't work with. But no, I don't have a link, cause I was wrong about it.
"Sharks do not go around challenging people to games of chance like dojo breakers."

User avatar
Dangerman
Posts: 5492
Joined: 07 May 2010, 12:26
Location: Happy Katanakaa Everyone!

Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Dangerman » 10 Aug 2017, 17:20

Mo wrote:
10 Aug 2017, 15:28
Dangerman wrote:Damore made the post on a board for posting about company stuff. If you're allowed (or encouraged) to discuss the topics of the day at work, it's pretty shitty to say that you are only allowed to talk positively or that your opinions aren't correct enough to be expressed on company time. If you ask for feedback, don't punish people for giving it.
That's adorable.

"Why did you say that I have a fat ass?"
"You asked me how you looked"
Jason said "put on blast" which is not correct, and something that keeps getting repeated. The venue was appropriate (regardless of your snark, Mo).

There may in fact come a time when you have to talk frankly with a loved one who needs to hear that their unhealthy habits need to change if they are upset about not fitting into their clothes. Because lying and saying "Nah, you're the same size you were when we got married!" is a lie, and an obvious and condescending lie, and only serves to enable behaviors that are not helping them achieve their goals.

I think an essay with citations is nothing like your analogy.
"It's a proven fact that spicy mustard is good for your health no matter what your medical condition, which is why the feds are suing Guildens for a backdoor into their condiment technology." - TIO

User avatar
Mo
Posts: 20770
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:08

Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Mo » 10 Aug 2017, 18:21

He called his employer authoritarian multiple times.

And re: you hate your company's culture. I have been in the situation where I didn't like what my company did or how my boss treated the team and my solution was to leave. Know when to fold them and know when to walk away.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

User avatar
Mo
Posts: 20770
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:08

Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Mo » 10 Aug 2017, 18:26

Jasper wrote:
Mo wrote:
10 Aug 2017, 15:28
Dangerman wrote:Damore made the post on a board for posting about company stuff. If you're allowed (or encouraged) to discuss the topics of the day at work, it's pretty shitty to say that you are only allowed to talk positively or that your opinions aren't correct enough to be expressed on company time. If you ask for feedback, don't punish people for giving it.
That's adorable.

"Why did you say that I have a fat ass?"
"You asked me how you looked"
No need to be a condescending prick. Not everyone is up to speed on corp-speak, corp-culture, or office politicking in Fortune 500 companies. Or cares.

Should the guy have maybe known better? Sure. But there's an argument to be had about a company that basically runs the internet having an intranet full of forums and spaces that mimic the rest of the world. Don't be shocked, SHOCKED!, when employees talking politics and culture war in company spaces maybe get a little edgy and it leaks out.
There's a difference between corp speak and knowing your audience. No matter how chummy the environment, it's still work. I have a great relationship with my boss and he'll take me out for drinks on occasion. At the same time, I know, right now at least, he's my boss and not my friend. Getting too familiar is a bad idea and there are things that I couldn't say to him. Granted, a lot of this came from 15 years of being in the workforce, making mistakes and witnessing mistakes.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

User avatar
Mo
Posts: 20770
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:08

Observations of the Random sort

Post by Mo » 10 Aug 2017, 18:33

Mo wrote:He called his employer authoritarian multiple times.

And re: you hate your company's culture. I have been in the situation where I didn't like what my company did or how my boss treated the team and my solution was to leave. Know when to fold them and know when to walk away.
One thing to add. Let's say you work for a religious org and you want to convince them to change their stance on hiring homosexuals. Calling them 'bigots' is more likely to get you fired than talking about how accepting sinners is Christlike.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

User avatar
Dangerman
Posts: 5492
Joined: 07 May 2010, 12:26
Location: Happy Katanakaa Everyone!

Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Dangerman » 10 Aug 2017, 18:41

tone policing smh
"It's a proven fact that spicy mustard is good for your health no matter what your medical condition, which is why the feds are suing Guildens for a backdoor into their condiment technology." - TIO

User avatar
Aresen
Posts: 12990
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 20:18
Location: Great White Pacific Northwest

Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Aresen » 10 Aug 2017, 18:44

Mo wrote:
10 Aug 2017, 18:33
Mo wrote:He called his employer authoritarian multiple times.

And re: you hate your company's culture. I have been in the situation where I didn't like what my company did or how my boss treated the team and my solution was to leave. Know when to fold them and know when to walk away.
One thing to add. Let's say you work for a religious org and you want to convince them to change their stance on hiring homosexuals. Calling them 'bigots' is more likely to get you fired than talking about how accepting sinners is Christlike.
"Outing" the six gay members of the board also works.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Most people don't realize Stephen King downplayed the horror that is Maine. - Jennifer

User avatar
dhex
Posts: 14408
Joined: 05 May 2010, 16:05
Location: 'murica

Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by dhex » 10 Aug 2017, 18:46

Dangerman wrote:
10 Aug 2017, 18:41
tone policing smh
Yer syh at the most basic stepping stone of rhetoric - knowing your audience and your platform.
"If they make a movie about Bothans pre-ROTJ that is basically a rip off of the Taking of Pelham 123, I would start masturbating in the theater." fffffffunnnngh

User avatar
Jennifer
Posts: 20278
Joined: 28 Apr 2010, 14:03

Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Jennifer » 10 Aug 2017, 19:20

So Damore has a new Twitter account @Fired4Truth, and his profile pic shows him wearing a T-shirt parodying the Google logo with "Goolag." First tweet is to the "Wesearchr" fundraiser for him. Dunno if he planned to become an alt-right superstar all along, or if he's just taking the opportunity once it presented itself.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

User avatar
Mo
Posts: 20770
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:08

Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Mo » 10 Aug 2017, 19:25

The phrasing of the lawsuit and the NLRB complaint right before getting fired pings my suspicions.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

User avatar
JasonL
Posts: 20803
Joined: 05 May 2010, 17:22

Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by JasonL » 10 Aug 2017, 19:30

Yes. Tone policing. In a workplace. Totally yes. Forever.

User avatar
Jennifer
Posts: 20278
Joined: 28 Apr 2010, 14:03

Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Jennifer » 10 Aug 2017, 19:59

Thing is -- assuming the guy actually was an alt-righter all along -- he is a no-joke genius at plausible deniability. There's a couple phrases in his memo which might be well-meaning, but might also be very subtle dogwhistles. That bit about Marxist intellectuals and the repeated failures of Communism: no, he certainly did not specifically say that striving for full racial or sexual equality is as unrealistic as Communism's attempts to bring about full economic equality. And he doesn't specifically say that anyone opposed to sexism or racism is either a gorram Commie or unwilling dupe of same. All he did was post historical facts about the failures of Communism and efforts of Marxist intellectuals! (Also, "cultural Marxism" is a currently popular catchphrase among the far-right/alt-right sphere.) Even his comments about how he likes "diversity" and wants to see more of it -- could be a wholehearted, sincere endorsement of racial equality ... but could also be interpreted as a nod toward the "human biodiversity" movement (basically, the racists' attempt to co-opt anti-racist language -- "human biodiversity" proponents basically say/said "Yeah, diversity is great, it's great that we have all these different races -- and that's why the races must remain separate! Because if you have interracial marriage and interracial children, then instead of diverse distinct races, everything'll just blend together. Yuck.")

Dude sounds like an asshole, but he's really good at dressing it up.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

User avatar
Kolohe
Posts: 12490
Joined: 06 May 2010, 10:51

Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Kolohe » 10 Aug 2017, 20:39

Mo wrote:
10 Aug 2017, 18:26
. Granted, a lot of this came from 15 years of being in the workforce, making mistakes and witnessing mistakes.
Yeah, I think an underappreciated dynamic of this is that this is, if I'm not mistaken, his first 'real' job outside of academia.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

User avatar
Dangerman
Posts: 5492
Joined: 07 May 2010, 12:26
Location: Happy Katanakaa Everyone!

Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Dangerman » 10 Aug 2017, 22:27

dhex wrote:
10 Aug 2017, 18:46
Dangerman wrote:
10 Aug 2017, 18:41
tone policing smh
Yer syh at the most basic stepping stone of rhetoric - knowing your audience and your platform.
I can't tell if or which gryllers here are cringing at his (and my) lack of business culture acumen, decrying the content, or criticizing his rhetoric.
"It's a proven fact that spicy mustard is good for your health no matter what your medical condition, which is why the feds are suing Guildens for a backdoor into their condiment technology." - TIO

User avatar
dhex
Posts: 14408
Joined: 05 May 2010, 16:05
Location: 'murica

Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by dhex » 11 Aug 2017, 10:00

i mean, he's a schmuck.

the document was mischaracterized in headlines to be sure (i've read the memo), but he's either up to some degree of game of thrones fuckery *or* he's a naif who's about to discover what 15 minutes of fame hot glued to the alt light feels like.

not sure which is which. maybe it's both? anyway, it's immaterial, really. you can see tension in the structure of the memo where it's argument, argument, argument, weird aside that makes him seem like an asshole. so it could go either way.

but back to the front - like, tone is everything. if you're going into territory to make a case that runs counter to the zeitgeist *and* you're interested in persuading others, you gotta, like, work within the frameworks that have weight with your audience.

remember: the vast majority of people have political feelings, not political beliefs. it's why a document that needed to be crisp and carefully-framed has a bunch of extant stuff bleeding through.

the moralizing framework that your typical identity left type uses is pointless against a maga type because you can't moralize to an audience that doesn't consider you or your argument to have moral weight. and you cannot shame that which doesn't feel shame, which is part of why that fucknut is in the white house.

a similar dynamic would be at play here as well. if you're going to start posting bigass memos that run counter to the current org culture, you'd better be hella careful.

again, that's if you're trying to convince others. otherwise it's just a very poetic (or not) form of onanism.

(yes i re-read kill all normies on the plane and will continue to crib some of her framing)
"If they make a movie about Bothans pre-ROTJ that is basically a rip off of the Taking of Pelham 123, I would start masturbating in the theater." fffffffunnnngh

User avatar
Aresen
Posts: 12990
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 20:18
Location: Great White Pacific Northwest

Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Aresen » 11 Aug 2017, 10:18

dhex wrote:
11 Aug 2017, 10:00
the alt light
:lol:
I like that.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Most people don't realize Stephen King downplayed the horror that is Maine. - Jennifer

User avatar
JasonL
Posts: 20803
Joined: 05 May 2010, 17:22

Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by JasonL » 11 Aug 2017, 10:19

That's part of kill all normies framing

User avatar
Kolohe
Posts: 12490
Joined: 06 May 2010, 10:51

Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Kolohe » 11 Aug 2017, 10:23

Marc Antony figured this out before his Friends Romans Countrymen speech.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

User avatar
dhex
Posts: 14408
Joined: 05 May 2010, 16:05
Location: 'murica

Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by dhex » 11 Aug 2017, 10:27

tl;dr me - most of my friends are on the left. if not all of them. (i mean some are probably neoliberals aka "the other n word" but whatever)

so i end up conversing with younger people who are frequently twitter-enabled and of a sjw stripe. my opening and closing line is this:

"you know how some jesus dude says 'your drugs and sexual immorality is eeevil' and you don't notice because you're too busy smoking dope and fucking and living your life? it's like that, but instead of dope and sex it's misogyny and white supremacy."

unrelated aside: did you know the chapo house people pull in north of 100k/month from crowdfunding?
"If they make a movie about Bothans pre-ROTJ that is basically a rip off of the Taking of Pelham 123, I would start masturbating in the theater." fffffffunnnngh

User avatar
dbcooper
Posts: 17515
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:40

Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by dbcooper » 11 Aug 2017, 10:31

Yep. Wondering when that is gonna start to fade.

Cum Town is nearly at $20k per month.
Slip inside a sleeping bag.

User avatar
dhex
Posts: 14408
Joined: 05 May 2010, 16:05
Location: 'murica

Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by dhex » 11 Aug 2017, 10:35

jfc holy shit

how?
"If they make a movie about Bothans pre-ROTJ that is basically a rip off of the Taking of Pelham 123, I would start masturbating in the theater." fffffffunnnngh

User avatar
dbcooper
Posts: 17515
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:40

Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by dbcooper » 11 Aug 2017, 10:43

dhex wrote:
11 Aug 2017, 10:35
jfc holy shit

how?
Unique place in the market? Funny as hell, pro offending people, anti censorship and PC, not conservative, alt-right or left.

GAS digital network (Luis J Gomez) is another interesting case.
Slip inside a sleeping bag.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Google [Bot] and 1 guest