Observations of the Random sort

User avatar
Jennifer
Posts: 22053
Joined: 28 Apr 2010, 14:03

Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Jennifer » 24 Nov 2017, 17:20

BTW, I chose "Comcast" for that example not because they're uniquely horrible in internet terms, but because of the three states where I've lived since the millennium turned, it so happens that Comcast has ALWAYS been my only internet option.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

User avatar
JasonL
Posts: 22109
Joined: 05 May 2010, 17:22

Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by JasonL » 24 Nov 2017, 19:09

I would observe that the internet became quite a bit cooler than phones without regulating them like ma bell. I perceive the overall costs and the totality of shit policies resulting from making FCC lords and masters of the internet to be quite high - way beyond net neutrality itself about which I’m meh. Others perceive the threat of local delivery monopolies to be both large and permanently immune from disruption such that fuck it treat it all like municipal water.

User avatar
Jennifer
Posts: 22053
Joined: 28 Apr 2010, 14:03

Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Jennifer » 24 Nov 2017, 20:49

So long as ISPs maintain monopoly status, net neutrality is the lesser of two evils. Let me deal with Comcastic shittiness by switching to another internet provider (in my current home, rather than having to move to an entirely different region of the country where Comcast is not the ISP), I'll likely agree there's no need for net neutrality rules. But so long as ISP monopolies mean my only two real Internet choices are "take it or leave it," then yeah, forcing the ISPs to treat all content neutrally is better than what the ISPs are asking for now.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

User avatar
Highway
Posts: 12763
Joined: 12 May 2011, 00:22
Location: the Electric Ocean

Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Highway » 24 Nov 2017, 21:23

My response on NN directed to the other thread.
"Sharks do not go around challenging people to games of chance like dojo breakers."

User avatar
Shem
Posts: 6988
Joined: 27 Apr 2010, 00:27

Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Shem » 24 Nov 2017, 22:09

JasonL wrote:
24 Nov 2017, 19:09
I would observe that the internet became quite a bit cooler than phones without regulating them like ma bell. I perceive the overall costs and the totality of shit policies resulting from making FCC lords and masters of the internet to be quite high - way beyond net neutrality itself about which I’m meh. Others perceive the threat of local delivery monopolies to be both large and permanently immune from disruption such that fuck it treat it all like municipal water.
So this is another "oligarchy is the price we pay for not yielding the inch that will begin the irreparable slide into mob terror" argument. Never mind that we've got 20 years of examples of ISPs doing all the things that NN proponents claim will happen, plus 20 years of them crushing every competitor that threatens their monopoly. Including using the same regulatory bodies that they're complaining about to crush competitors. Or that most of the "cool stuff" you're talking about wasn't designed by ISPs, who mostly take advantage of previously built infrastructure and the reinterpretation of international standards (ITU 4G is very, very different than telco 4G) while dodging promises to update and build out systems.
"VOTE SHEMOCRACY! You will only have to do it once!" -Loyalty Officer Aresen

User avatar
JasonL
Posts: 22109
Joined: 05 May 2010, 17:22

Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by JasonL » 25 Nov 2017, 08:12

Right right. Should delivery have been title 2 to begin with? That way we can trust everything is great and there aren’t monopolies that act badly?

User avatar
dhex
Posts: 15246
Joined: 05 May 2010, 16:05
Location: 'murica

Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by dhex » 27 Nov 2017, 07:52

that times profile wasn't the strongest bit of reporting, but the way twitter is reacting you'd think it was

a) the first time anyone ever wrote about the banal life of extremists
b) an endorsement of this guy's politics because the top header doesn't read THIS IS BAD AND HE IS BAD
"I do wear my New Balance tennis shoes when I'm wearing cargo shorts, though, because truth in advertising." - lunch

User avatar
thoreau
Posts: 25779
Joined: 06 May 2010, 12:56
Location: Back to the lab again

Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by thoreau » 27 Nov 2017, 10:56

dhex wrote:that times profile wasn't the strongest bit of reporting, but the way twitter is reacting you'd think it was

a) the first time anyone ever wrote about the banal life of extremists
b) an endorsement of this guy's politics because the top header doesn't read THIS IS BAD AND HE IS BAD
Seconded.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
--Shem

User avatar
nicole
Posts: 8693
Joined: 12 Jan 2013, 16:28

Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by nicole » 27 Nov 2017, 11:40

Yeah it's ahem verboten to note the banality of evil these days.
"Fucking qualia." -Hugh Akston

"This is why I carry a shoehorn.” -jadagul

User avatar
the innominate one
Posts: 12356
Joined: 17 May 2011, 16:17
Location: hypertime continuum

Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by the innominate one » 27 Nov 2017, 12:28

I saw a decent Twitter thread that I skimmed breaking down what was wrong with the article, in that person's opinion. Short version: the NYT didn't do anything to report on the historical and cultural context of his views, as I recall.
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." -E Benn

"No shit, Sherlock." -JsubD

"now is the time to go fuck yourself until you die." -dhex

User avatar
nicole
Posts: 8693
Joined: 12 Jan 2013, 16:28

Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by nicole » 27 Nov 2017, 14:21

the innominate one wrote:
27 Nov 2017, 12:28
I saw a decent Twitter thread that I skimmed breaking down what was wrong with the article, in that person's opinion. Short version: the NYT didn't do anything to report on the historical and cultural context of his views, as I recall.
If you're talking about this one, I think it's pretty bad:

For example, it does talk about what he meant by "normal people":


And Ms. Horvater didn't "disbelieve the narrative of how Trayvon Martin was murdered"; if anything, she agreed with the jury:


Was the part where Horvater is openly into Hitler not clear enough?


Again, *the entire Times article is placing him within the context of contemporary white nationalism*:


He literally is saying RIGHT HERE why he distinguishes between Himmler and Hitler:


I'd also like to know why profiles of coal miners aren't supposed to spend half their time on global warming:
"Fucking qualia." -Hugh Akston

"This is why I carry a shoehorn.” -jadagul

User avatar
thoreau
Posts: 25779
Joined: 06 May 2010, 12:56
Location: Back to the lab again

Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by thoreau » 27 Nov 2017, 14:25

nicole wrote:
27 Nov 2017, 14:21
I'd also like to know why profiles of coal miners aren't supposed to spend half their time on global warming:
Because the Overton Window hasn't moved there yet.

But in 2019, God Gaia help the NYT reporter who profiles a coal miner without discussing global warming. Or, at a minimum, reminding everyone that a greedy CEO is responsible for the miner's health problems.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
--Shem

User avatar
JD
Posts: 10081
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:26

Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by JD » 27 Nov 2017, 16:45

It's interesting to me that there's such an ongoing flap over the fact that tobacco companies manipulated the levels of nicotine in their products. On the one hand, I can see why this is seen as dirty pool. On the other hand, doesn't every single company manipulate the levels of something-or-other in their products to make it more appealing? I mean, that's basically what you do when you're making a product.
"Millennials are lazy. They'd rather have avocado toast than cave in a man's skull with a tire iron!" -FFF

User avatar
Jennifer
Posts: 22053
Joined: 28 Apr 2010, 14:03

Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Jennifer » 27 Nov 2017, 16:48

JD wrote:
27 Nov 2017, 16:45
It's interesting to me that there's such an ongoing flap over the fact that tobacco companies manipulated the levels of nicotine in their products. On the one hand, I can see why this is seen as dirty pool. On the other hand, doesn't every single company manipulate the levels of something-or-other in their products to make it more appealing? I mean, that's basically what you do when you're making a product.
Yeah, but "appealing" is not the same as "addictive." Manipulating the former is okay, but not the latter (at least not without being upfront about it).
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

User avatar
JD
Posts: 10081
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:26

Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by JD » 27 Nov 2017, 17:05

Jennifer wrote:
27 Nov 2017, 16:48
Yeah, but "appealing" is not the same as "addictive." Manipulating the former is okay, but not the latter (at least not without being upfront about it).
That's a good response, although I'm not sure that that covers everything (I mean, alcohol is addictive, and "manipulating alcohol levels" is basically the sine qua non of what vintners, brewers, and distillers do) and I have seen a lot of claims lately that they may not be so different after all - think of snack foods that are scientifically engineered to be as appealing as possible.
"Millennials are lazy. They'd rather have avocado toast than cave in a man's skull with a tire iron!" -FFF

User avatar
Jennifer
Posts: 22053
Joined: 28 Apr 2010, 14:03

Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Jennifer » 27 Nov 2017, 17:17

JD wrote:
27 Nov 2017, 17:05
Jennifer wrote:
27 Nov 2017, 16:48
Yeah, but "appealing" is not the same as "addictive." Manipulating the former is okay, but not the latter (at least not without being upfront about it).
That's a good response, although I'm not sure that that covers everything (I mean, alcohol is addictive, and "manipulating alcohol levels" is basically the sine qua non of what vintners, brewers, and distillers do)
Which is why I added that parenthetical about being upfront -- yes, alcohol producers manipulate alcohol levels, but they also put the proof on the label so you know exactly how much alcohol you're getting: the proof is double the percent of alcohol.

But suppose (hypothetically) we lived in a time when people only ever had wine- or beer-strength alcoholic beverages, and I'm an alcoholic-drink seller who discovers how to distill pure moonshine, and secretly start spiking my wines and beers so that you think you're getting a typical such drink (which is what, less than ten proof, usually?) but it's actually 50 percent booze -- 100 proof. And people who were able to responsibly drink one or two ordinary glasses of wine or beer per day are now getting pretty fucked up and developing strong addictions or dependencies off of one or two glasses of my stuff, which they don't even know is different from ordinary wine or beer...
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

User avatar
JD
Posts: 10081
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:26

Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by JD » 27 Nov 2017, 17:51

Jennifer wrote:
27 Nov 2017, 17:17
Which is why I added that parenthetical about being upfront -- yes, alcohol producers manipulate alcohol levels, but they also put the proof on the label so you know exactly how much alcohol you're getting: the proof is double the percent of alcohol.

But suppose (hypothetically) we lived in a time when people only ever had wine- or beer-strength alcoholic beverages, and I'm an alcoholic-drink seller who discovers how to distill pure moonshine, and secretly start spiking my wines and beers so that you think you're getting a typical such drink (which is what, less than ten proof, usually?) but it's actually 50 percent booze -- 100 proof. And people who were able to responsibly drink one or two ordinary glasses of wine or beer per day are now getting pretty fucked up and developing strong addictions or dependencies off of one or two glasses of my stuff, which they don't even know is different from ordinary wine or beer...
I wonder, would it have been less of an issue had tobacco products been labeled with their nicotine content? Of course some of the articles on the topic have pointed out that it's not necessarily so easy to measure effective nicotine concentration, that is to say, the amount that actually gets delivered to the user.

And it's interesting that you should mention wine and beer vs. distilled liquors and people not really grokking the difference, because what you describe is very similar to what did happen when gin became cheap and popular in England, as Jessica Warner described in Craze: Gin and Debauchery in an Age of Reason - people used to drinking beer by the pint started drinking gin by the pint, with somewhat predictable results.
"Millennials are lazy. They'd rather have avocado toast than cave in a man's skull with a tire iron!" -FFF

User avatar
Jennifer
Posts: 22053
Joined: 28 Apr 2010, 14:03

Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Jennifer » 27 Nov 2017, 18:20

JD wrote:
27 Nov 2017, 17:51
Jennifer wrote:
27 Nov 2017, 17:17
Which is why I added that parenthetical about being upfront -- yes, alcohol producers manipulate alcohol levels, but they also put the proof on the label so you know exactly how much alcohol you're getting: the proof is double the percent of alcohol.

But suppose (hypothetically) we lived in a time when people only ever had wine- or beer-strength alcoholic beverages, and I'm an alcoholic-drink seller who discovers how to distill pure moonshine, and secretly start spiking my wines and beers so that you think you're getting a typical such drink (which is what, less than ten proof, usually?) but it's actually 50 percent booze -- 100 proof. And people who were able to responsibly drink one or two ordinary glasses of wine or beer per day are now getting pretty fucked up and developing strong addictions or dependencies off of one or two glasses of my stuff, which they don't even know is different from ordinary wine or beer...
I wonder, would it have been less of an issue had tobacco products been labeled with their nicotine content? Of course some of the articles on the topic have pointed out that it's not necessarily so easy to measure effective nicotine concentration, that is to say, the amount that actually gets delivered to the user.

And it's interesting that you should mention wine and beer vs. distilled liquors and people not really grokking the difference, because what you describe is very similar to what did happen when gin became cheap and popular in England, as Jessica Warner described in Craze: Gin and Debauchery in an Age of Reason - people used to drinking beer by the pint started drinking gin by the pint, with somewhat predictable results.
Ha! Feels like I hit a bullseye without even trying. 8-)
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

User avatar
dhex
Posts: 15246
Joined: 05 May 2010, 16:05
Location: 'murica

Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by dhex » 27 Nov 2017, 20:51

the past is so alcoholic it boggles.
"I do wear my New Balance tennis shoes when I'm wearing cargo shorts, though, because truth in advertising." - lunch

User avatar
Andrew
Posts: 6021
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 21:52
Location: Vale of Eternal Fire

Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Andrew » 28 Nov 2017, 07:13

dhex wrote:
27 Nov 2017, 20:51
the past is so alcoholic it boggles.
Yeah, the alcohol consumption of the American colonies is stupefying.
We live in the fucked age. Get used to it. - dhex

holy shit there will never be an end until the sweet release of death (as dictated by the death panels, natch) - lunch

User avatar
dbcooper
Posts: 17989
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:40

Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by dbcooper » 28 Nov 2017, 17:02

So Apple's MacOS has the worst security flaw since Windows 98.

Huge security flaw lets anyone log into a High Sierra Mac

Image

Also works remotely.

Slip inside a sleeping bag.

User avatar
Eric the .5b
Posts: 11926
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 16:29

Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Eric the .5b » 28 Nov 2017, 21:53

Yup. It's fixable by actually setting the root password, but it's a horrific insecurity.

And so of course, the guy tweets it to the world instead of submitting the bug to Apple.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
"Cyberpunk never really gave the government enough credit for their ability to secure a favorable prenup during the Corporate-State wedding." - Shem

User avatar
Shem
Posts: 6988
Joined: 27 Apr 2010, 00:27

Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Shem » 29 Nov 2017, 00:10

I guess that is marginally better than selling it, when you consider he probably could have gotten some serious coin on the black market. Unless it was already known, in which case he probably should have sold it to Apple for the $50k.

Also, Apple should probably pay better for bugs.
"VOTE SHEMOCRACY! You will only have to do it once!" -Loyalty Officer Aresen

User avatar
JD
Posts: 10081
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:26

Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by JD » 29 Nov 2017, 10:29

I would say it's more embarrassing than critical, in a way. You need to have physical access to the system, and physical access kind of means game over anyway. That said, the vulnerability is still at "fucking duh" levels of obviousness.
"Millennials are lazy. They'd rather have avocado toast than cave in a man's skull with a tire iron!" -FFF

User avatar
Mo
Posts: 22562
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:08

Re: Observations of the Random sort

Post by Mo » 29 Nov 2017, 10:34

his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Fin Fang Foom, Painboy and 1 guest