We can win the war in Vietnam!

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thoreau
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Re: We can win the war in Vietnam!

Post by thoreau » 09 Feb 2017, 15:10

Kolohe wrote:"Thousands More Troops Needed To Break Afghanistan 'Stalemate,' General Warns"
Moscow has begun "a public effort to legitimize the Taliban," Nicholson said, that is aimed at undermining Kabul among its own citizens and warning neighboring countries that ISIS could spill over into their nations as it did in the Levant.

"This is a false narrative," Nicholson told senators. He alluded to "reports" about Russia supporting the Taliban directly. Later, he added: "I believe its intent is to undermine the United States and NATO."
(em added)

I can't even
Is it that you can't even because Russia supporting the Taliban is so maddening, or because you consider the reports to be lacking in credibility?
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
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Kolohe
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Re: We can win the war in Vietnam!

Post by Kolohe » 09 Feb 2017, 15:18

fair point. I believe General Nicholson - but won't rule out the possibly that the characterization by NPR and others of what he said is being misconstrued.

I just can't even with Russia supporting the Taliban after that turned out so well for the US when the shoe was on the other foot.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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thoreau
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Re: We can win the war in Vietnam!

Post by thoreau » 09 Feb 2017, 15:23

Kolohe wrote:fair point. I believe General Nicholson - but won't rule out the possibly that the characterization by NPR and others of what he said is being misconstrued.

I just can't even with Russia supporting the Taliban after that turned out so well for the US when the shoe was on the other foot.
Yes, but Russia is also controlling the US, so they have some rather unique opportunities here. To my knowledge, the US didn't control the Soviets.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
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Kolohe
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Re: We can win the war in Vietnam!

Post by Kolohe » 09 Feb 2017, 15:35

It makes even less sense given that. For nearly 300 years, the Russia Empire and successors have wanted a weak Afghanistan as a buffer against its great power rivals (first the Brits, then the US).

But now, with a USA less inclined to play the great power game with you than at any time in the last 100 years, why do this with the Taliban? Especially when your main, frequently vocalized raison d'etre has been the inheritance from the Byzantines & the Czars as the dude that's going to defend the world from political motivated members of the Islamic faith that like to go all Mountain Dew with their beliefs.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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thoreau
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Re: We can win the war in Vietnam!

Post by thoreau » 09 Feb 2017, 16:02

This part seems strange to me:
Some challenges are new, however: Iran has begun to support the Taliban in Western Afghanistan, Nicholson said, and it's also recruiting Shiite Afghans to join its campaigns against the Islamic State in Syria and Iraq.
I get why Iran would recruit Afghan Shias for guerrilla warfare against ISIS, but the claim of Iran supporting Taliban factions in the western part of Afghanistan (i.e. on the Iranian border) seems...surprising. Maybe these games are far more intricate than I realize, but intuitively I'd think that, since the Taliban are not exactly friendly to Iran and Shias, Iran would be loathe to support Taliban fighters on their doorstep. I totally get supporting Taliban factions elsewhere as part of some chess game against someone else, but on their doorstep? Not impossible, but I want to know more.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
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Hugh Akston
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Re: We can win the war in Vietnam!

Post by Hugh Akston » 09 Feb 2017, 16:10

Just as a matter of principle orderly neighbors are preferable to chaotic ones. Even if Iran doesn't like the particular flavor of order that the Taliban imposes, they at least kept things quiet.
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Kolohe
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Re: We can win the war in Vietnam!

Post by Kolohe » 09 Feb 2017, 19:58

Yeah, but it is weird because the Iranians had (as of 2010) a rather free hand in the far west of Afghanistan. ISAFs footprint was small because the Italians were in charge there, half the briefs from the area were so lazily constructed that people forget to un-autocorrect "Heart Province" back to "Herat Province", and (I think) it was the one place were import and export duties were collected more or less reliably. I'm pretty sure I remember Iranians building a strip mall in the border town on the Afghan side.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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Re: We can win the war in Vietnam!

Post by dbcooper » 13 Feb 2017, 07:23

Kolohe wrote:It makes even less sense given that. For nearly 300 years, the Russia Empire and successors have wanted a weak Afghanistan as a buffer against its great power rivals (first the Brits, then the US).

But now, with a USA less inclined to play the great power game with you than at any time in the last 100 years, why do this with the Taliban? Especially when your main, frequently vocalized raison d'etre has been the inheritance from the Byzantines & the Czars as the dude that's going to defend the world from political motivated members of the Islamic faith that like to go all Mountain Dew with their beliefs.
Maybe Putin's just another dipshit who has exploited an ideology that has then grown beyond his control?
Slip inside a sleeping bag.

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Kolohe
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Re: We can win the war in Vietnam!

Post by Kolohe » 21 Aug 2017, 20:59

Hey, I guess it's back to this thread tonight!
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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Kolohe
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Re: We can win the war in Vietnam!

Post by Kolohe » 21 Aug 2017, 21:07

So far, it's literally more about the US than Afghanistan
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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Kolohe
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Re: We can win the war in Vietnam!

Post by Kolohe » 21 Aug 2017, 21:10

'My instinct was to pull out...and I usually follow my instinct'
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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Kolohe
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Re: We can win the war in Vietnam!

Post by Kolohe » 21 Aug 2017, 21:25

This speech has been written by committee, and it shows, flipping back and forth between Miller approved points and McMaster approved ones.

Eta - the tell is in disavowing nation building 2 or 3 times, but also talking 2 or 3 different times about building up Afghan forces and whole of government effort.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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Kolohe
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Re: We can win the war in Vietnam!

Post by Kolohe » 21 Aug 2017, 21:29

For real, the intro speech I waa given by the general in charge of US Forces Afghanistan during our indoc in July 2009 was 'What are we here for? We are here to win.'
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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Fin Fang Foom
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Re: We can win the war in Vietnam!

Post by Fin Fang Foom » 21 Aug 2017, 21:49

It is good to piss off Pakistan. As we could not bring the DPRK to heel, we should try that with a country with many more nuclear weapons.

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Fin Fang Foom
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Re: We can win the war in Vietnam!

Post by Fin Fang Foom » 21 Aug 2017, 22:05

It is also good to pretend that 4,000 extra troops will be enough to destroy the Taliban when 25x that wasn't enough and also say no nation building when to achieve the objective absent massive numbers of U.S. troops would require building up the Afghan military and government.

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Mo
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Re: We can win the war in Vietnam!

Post by Mo » 21 Aug 2017, 23:18

Fin Fang Foom wrote:
21 Aug 2017, 22:05
It is also good to pretend that 4,000 extra troops will be enough to destroy the Taliban when 25x that wasn't enough and also say no nation building when to achieve the objective absent massive numbers of U.S. troops would require building up the Afghan military and government.
We will rebuild the military and the government, but not the nation. Habitat for Humanity must stand down.
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Re: We can win the war in Vietnam!

Post by nicole » 22 Aug 2017, 10:40

"Fucking qualia." -Hugh Akston

"This is why I carry a shoehorn.” -jadagul

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Hugh Akston
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Re: We can win the war in Vietnam!

Post by Hugh Akston » 22 Aug 2017, 11:13

The reality is, Trump can make a difference in Afghanistan
But having few good options does not change the facts. And the reality is that Afghan forces have been defending their changing nation -- a country whose young generation is increasingly congregating in cities, increasingly connected to the outside world and increasingly hungry for education and a better, more peaceful future for their country -- and losing soldiers at an alarmingly high rate in the process. In one year Afghan security forces lost nearly as many soldiers as the United States military has lost in both the Afghanistan and Iraq wars since 9/11. This is not to minimize those losses for even a moment, but to show that far from being a force that is unwilling to die for its nation, many already have.
It is both too easy and too simple to dismiss the entire effort in Afghanistan as a waste from which America should walk away when there is a local military in place that is shedding blood in the fight against extremism. Sending the "few thousand" US troops to bolster Afghan forces that Gen. John Nicholson said in February he wanted is an investment in the stability of a nation that wants to be more and needs more security to do so. And it is a far less costly option than sending US ground forces back in the tens of thousands -- something no one on any side wants to see in his or her lifetime.
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Re: We can win the war in Vietnam!

Post by nicole » 22 Aug 2017, 11:50

When do you suppose the terrorists will get bored of winning?
"Fucking qualia." -Hugh Akston

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Sandy
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Re: We can win the war in Vietnam!

Post by Sandy » 22 Aug 2017, 12:55

nicole wrote:
22 Aug 2017, 11:50
When do you suppose the terrorists will get bored of winning?
We're gonna tire them out any day now.
Hindu is the cricket of religions. You can observe it for years, you can have enthusiasts try to explain it to you, and it's still baffling. - Warren

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nicole
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Re: We can win the war in Vietnam!

Post by nicole » 22 Aug 2017, 16:34

"Fucking qualia." -Hugh Akston

"This is why I carry a shoehorn.” -jadagul

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dhex
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Re: We can win the war in Vietnam!

Post by dhex » 22 Aug 2017, 17:32

So... now he wants soldiers to punch him?
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Kolohe
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Re: We can win the war in Vietnam!

Post by Kolohe » 22 Aug 2017, 17:59

I don't know the fit now, but the ACUs of 5-7 years ago were poofy and had a pajama like fit to them. Which did make them comfortable, but also made you look heavy.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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Kolohe
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Re: We can win the war in Vietnam!

Post by Kolohe » 22 Aug 2017, 18:01

We can win the war play for a tie in Afghanistan!



:x
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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Hugh Akston
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Re: We can win the war in Vietnam!

Post by Hugh Akston » 22 Aug 2017, 18:07

What's wrong with that? The rest of the world loves soccer.
"Is a Lulztopia the best we can hope for?!?" ~Taktix®
"Inexplicably cockfighting monsters that live in your pants" ~Jadagul

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